Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

Bonniedog

declanflynn wrote: »

SF are delighted the way the Brexit mess is unfolding, a United Ireland in sight now, and it was the dup that made it possible

How do you make that out?

That was just something thrown out for the imbeciles to persuade Paddy to back Brussels on Brexit.

Only way there can be a united Ireland under GFA is if majority in north vote for it. Nothing to suggest that there even be a poll soon, let alone that it would pass.

Apart from all that why would any nationalist party support the EU dominating British and Irish fisheries?

Used to be one of main planks in Shinners opposition to EU before they took the knee on that as well as Partition.

Padre_Pio

Bonniedog wrote: »

How do you make that out?

That was just something thrown out for the imbeciles to persuade Paddy to back Brussels on Brexit.

Only way there can be a united Ireland under GFA is if majority in north vote for it. Nothing to suggest that there even be a poll soon, let alone that it would pass.

In sight could mean in the next 20-50 years.

It's not going to happen in the next 3-5 years.

declanflynn

Bonniedog wrote: »

How do you make that out?

That was just something thrown out for the imbeciles to persuade Paddy to back Brussels on Brexit.

Only way there can be a united Ireland under GFA is if majority in north vote for it. Nothing to suggest that there even be a poll soon, let alone that it would pass.

Apart from all that why would any nationalist party support the EU dominating British and Irish fisheries?

Used to be one of main planks in Shinners opposition to EU before they took the knee on that as well as Partition.

SF are a nationalist party whose whose whole raison d'etre is to bring about a United Ireland not who caught whose fish

Bonniedog

declanflynn wrote: »

SF are a nationalist party whose whose whole raison d'etre is to bring about a United Ireland not who caught whose fish

I think you are missing the point of what national sovereignty means maybe!

(Hint: Not agreeing to surrender control over a key natural resource.)

SF are about as nationalist as FG or FF. They accepted Partition, running NI for London, the EU, etc, etc.

Like all of the above their raison d'etre is power and all that goes along with it.

Pity so many people on all sides had to die for other peoples' careers.

First Up

Bonniedog wrote:

I think you are missing the point of what national sovereignty means maybe!

(Hint: Not agreeing to surrender control over a key natural resource.)

Fish is 0.5% of the UK economy. Exports to the EU Single Market are about 15%.

You decide which is the more important.

Seth Brundle

https://twitter.com/joeevanswrites/status/1334816197418897409

declanflynn

Bonniedog wrote: »

I think you are missing the point of what national sovereignty means maybe!

(Hint: Not agreeing to surrender control over a key natural resource.)

SF are about as nationalist as FG or FF. They accepted Partition, running NI for London, the EU, etc, etc.

Like all of the above their raison d'etre is power and all that goes along with it.

Pity so many people on all sides had to die for other peoples' careers.

I think your missing the point mate, people would and have died for a United Ireland, people dont die for fish

fash

Bonniedog wrote: »

In a world gone mad, possibly the most absurd aspect of the Brexit endgame is that the Shinners are attacking the Brits for not wanting to continue to cede sovereignty over 80% of their fishing waters to an entity which they have decided to leave!

Correction: ... which they have decided to leave but to which they want to retain an unprecedented and outrageous level of unfettered privileged access.

Kermit.de.frog

Talks on hold. UK saying "no shift on Fishing and Sovereingty".

Barnier saying the differences are significant.

Feels like no deal might be coming.

Bonniedog

declanflynn wrote: »

I think your missing the point mate, people would and have died for a United Ireland, people dont die for fish

People died for a united Ireland and were killed for a united Ireland - sometimes on the word of touts who were at the top of SF and mates with those who still run it.

Total waste of lives on all sides, given what we have. SF managing to combine now subservience to two overseas entities.

BTW, you should read some of what the Irish fishing organisations are saying now with regard to how they were used as a bargaining chip against the Brits, and who will now not only lose out in British fishing waters but will be fked over again to provide an even larger share to EU states.

Up the Republic. Mate.

declanflynn

Bonniedog wrote: »

People died for a united Ireland and were killed for a united Ireland - sometimes on the word of touts who were at the top of SF and mates with those who still run it.

Total waste of lives on all sides, given what we have. SF managing to combine now subservience to two overseas entities.

BTW, you should read some of what the Irish fishing organisations are saying now with regard to how they were used as a bargaining chip against the Brits, and who will now not only lose out in British fishing waters but will be fked over again to provide an even larger share to EU states.

Up the Republic. Mate.

Are all brits pescetarians ?

Bonniedog

Are all newbie Shinners totally ignorant of what the movement was supposed to be about?

declanflynn

Bonniedog wrote: »

Are all newbie Shinners totally ignorant of what the movement was supposed to be about?

no, its fish

declanflynn

First Up wrote: »

Fish is 0.5% of the UK economy. Exports to the EU Single Market are about 15%.

You decide which is the more important.

May draw a picture then he might be able to figure it out

Necro

Mod:

No need to be bringing SF into a Brexit thread - there's any amount of threads in the forum to discuss them

pinkfloyd34

Britain knows it will be a no deal, they quickly approved the vaccine for covid (first country in the world) to avoid the custom charges from Belgium in January and also to avoid the queues around the ports in January.

declanflynn

Watch the fat man cave in today
United Ireland in sight

The UK is a small insignificant island off the coast of mainland Europe and it should remember that.

I'd love if boris had the balls to go for no deal, but alas I dont think he has.

CelticRambler

pinkfloyd34 wrote: »

Britain knows it will be a no deal, they quickly approved the vaccine for covid (first country in the world) to avoid the custom charges from Belgium in January and also to avoid the queues around the ports in January.

Yeah, right. You do know the emergency authorisation was for one (1) batch, don't you? They'll have to re-approve the next batch and the one after that and the one after that until the vaccine is fully licensed.

statesaver

declanflynn wrote: »

Watch the fat man cave in today
United Ireland in sight

The UK is a small insignificant island off the coast of mainland Europe and it should remember that.

I'd love if boris had the balls to go for no deal, but alas I dont think he has.

There are no calls for a UI in Northern Ireland and you will be a long time waiting for them.

J Mysterio

https://twitter.com/JohnWest_JAWS/status/1336032579150090241?s=20

forgottenhills

declanflynn wrote: »

Watch the fat man cave in today
United Ireland in sight

The UK is a small insignificant island off the coast of mainland Europe and it should remember that.

I'd love if boris had the balls to go for no deal, but alas I dont think he has.

The anti-Britishness is strong in this one. Get that chip off your shoulder and grow up.

A No Deal would be very bad news for this country. Some people will lose their jobs if tariffs are introduced on Irish goods being exported to the UK. If queues or blockades build up at UK and French ports then some goods, perhaps even some foodstuffs, will go into short supply here. I don't see why any sane Irish person should be hoping for a No Deal.

Donald Trump

forgottenhills wrote: »

The anti-Britishness is strong in this one. Get that chip off your shoulder and grow up.

A No Deal would be very bad news for this country. Some people will lose their jobs if tariffs are introduced on Irish goods being exported to the UK. If queues or blockades build up at UK and French ports then some goods, perhaps even some foodstuffs, will go into short supply here. I don't see why any sane Irish person should be hoping for a No Deal.

It would be a terrible outcome alright.



The only way you might be hoping for it is to hope that it would quickly chasten the UK and get them back to the table with some realism rather than maybe having to put up with decades of battles with them over tiny little things while they are still deluding themselves that they would be better off without any deal.

micosoft

forgottenhills wrote: »

The anti-Britishness is strong in this one. Get that chip off your shoulder and grow up.

A No Deal would be very bad news for this country. Some people will lose their jobs if tariffs are introduced on Irish goods being exported to the UK. If queues or blockades build up at UK and French ports then some goods, perhaps even some foodstuffs, will go into short supply here. I don't see why any sane Irish person should be hoping for a No Deal.

It's bad. And no sane person would want no-deal and the poison it will open in England/Rest of Europe relations. But one of the issues with Brexit is that it has reopened a Pandora's box of nationalism within the two islands.... if Brexit is English Nationalist rejecting not just the EU but in many ways the UK as well we can only expect to see a rise in Irish, Scottish, Welsh and even Cornish nationalism. We can expect anti-Englishism to grow as a reaction to English nationalism. It's simply a zero sum game. And moving from a Win-Win world in the EU to one where in order for Ireland and Scotland to thrive post Brexit they have to take business from England i.e. countries are forced into Win-Lose tactics.

forgottenhills

Donald Trump wrote: »

It would be a terrible outcome alright.



The only way you might be hoping for it is to hope that it would quickly chasten the UK and get them back to the table with some realism rather than maybe having to put up with decades of battles with them over tiny little things while they are still deluding themselves that they would be better off without any deal.

The risk is that if a trade war/blockades over ports or fishing breaks out then there will be a lot of blame and finger pointing and subsequent deep bitterness and mistrust. Each set of citizens will back its governments and blame the other side. It could be very difficult to get that genie back in the bottle and get trade agreement talks moving again and to a conclusion.

Leroy42

forgottenhills wrote: »

The anti-Britishness is strong in this one. Get that chip off your shoulder and grow up.

A No Deal would be very bad news for this country. Some people will lose their jobs if tariffs are introduced on Irish goods being exported to the UK. If queues or blockades build up at UK and French ports then some goods, perhaps even some foodstuffs, will go into short supply here. I don't see why any sane Irish person should be hoping for a No Deal.

but the alternative seems to be that the EU needs to give a major competitive advantage to the UK, with free and direct access to the SM but without having to abide by the rules, many of which carry a significant cost to them.

In that way, we could very well lose the ability to attract FDI, lose out on export markets to the EU and other markets.

At the core of Brexit is the fact that the UK wants too compete with the EU, and in the same way that we are directly impacted by Brexit we will also be directly impacted by this direct competition. It is therefore vital that we place ourselves in a more favourable position to the UK when it is outside the EU.

forgottenhills

Leroy42 wrote: »

but the alternative seems to be that the EU needs to give a major competitive advantage to the UK, with free and direct access to the SM but without having to abide by the rules, many of which carry a significant cost to them.

In that way, we could very well lose the ability to attract FDI, lose out on export markets to the EU and other markets.

At the core of Brexit is the fact that the UK wants too compete with the EU, and in the same way that we are directly impacted by Brexit we will also be directly impacted by this direct competition. It is therefore vital that we place ourselves in a more favourable position to the UK when it is outside the EU.

I agree that the EU has to preserve the integrity of the EU and the SM. At the same time I think the EU could have handled the negotiations better in some aspects, for instance the optics of the demands around fishing which has played into Brexiteer hands. Most of all I am regretting that the UK government seems to have no compunction about a No Deal which is where we seem to be heading.

Good news at least today on the NI Protocol agreement which should avoid most of the potential issues on the land border, even if there is no deal in the main negotiations. But of course the devil will be in the detail of the agreement that has been reached, and the real life implications.

ancapailldorcha

forgottenhills wrote: »

I agree that the EU has to preserve the integrity of the EU and the SM. At the same time I think the EU could have handled the negotiations better in some aspects, for instance the optics of the demands around fishing which has played into Brexiteer hands. Most of all I am regretting that the UK government seems to have no compunction about a No Deal which is where we seem to be heading.

Good news at least today on the NI Protocol agreement which should avoid most of the potential issues on the land border, even if there is no deal in the main negotiations. But of course the devil will be in the detail of the agreement that has been reached, and the real life implications.

The optics were determined by tax-dodging rags headquartered in the Carribean so they were always going to favour the Brexiters.

forgottenhills

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The optics were determined by tax-dodging rags headquartered in the Carribean so they were always going to favour the Brexiters.

On the fishing side of the negotiations the optics as reported everywhere from Dingle to Berlin amounted to the the EU offering the UK only 18% of the UK's own fish (as per internationally accepted agreements around the concept of a 200 mile exclusion zone). This was a poor PR representation of the EU's position and only playing into the hands of hardline Brexiteers. The French came across as particularly demanding/insistent on this area. No other representation of the EU's demands around fishing rights was ever offered by the EU to my knowledge or found media currency.

Donald Trump

forgottenhills wrote: »

The risk is that if a trade war/blockades over ports or fishing breaks out then there will be a lot of blame and finger pointing and subsequent deep bitterness and mistrust. Each set of citizens will back its governments and blame the other side. It could be very difficult to get that genie back in the bottle and get trade

agreement talks moving again and to a conclusion.

It appears that Boris et. al. seem to like the idea of finger pointing as an excuse to allow them to survive back home. They can keep feeding their population shite and get by on the "bogeyman" of the EU for a few more years

forgottenhills wrote: »

On the fishing side of the negotiations the optics as reported everywhere from Dingle to Berlin amounted to the the EU offering the UK only 18% of the UK's own fish (as per internationally accepted agreements around the concept of a 200 mile exclusion zone). This was a poor PR representation of the EU's position and only playing into the hands of hardline Brexiteers. The French came across as particularly demanding/insistent on this area. No other representation of the EU's demands around fishing rights was ever offered by the EU to my knowledge or found media currency.

All we hear from the UK side of things is crap about sovereignty and democracy and being able to make their own decisions and rules. I haven't seen anyone on the EU side who has contradicted it. If the UK wants to keep its magical fish above all else then it can do that.



The EU also has the rights to make it's on decisions and rules. If they don't want to give the UK access to whatever within it's markets, then they don't have to. If they decide to offer the UK a deal for access to its markets in exchange for access to UK waters then that is a perfectly normal suggestion. UK can take it or leave it. Their decision.


The Brexiters still seem to have this incredulous "have their cake and eat it too" attitude. What was it, only a week or two ago that their rags published the scandal of the evil EU that the UK citizens might be restricted to 3 months at a time in their continental houses? Ya know, like everyone else who isn't in the EU.

Dyr

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JohnWest_JAWS/status/1336032579150090241?s=20

Ahh the bould Conspiracy Carol still at it, trousered five figures from supporters to fight against Aaron Banks defamation case and when she knew she wasnt even going to contest it.

I suppose conspiracy theories are fine when its the right sort of conspiracy