National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

Orebro

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Building a new house in the Ballygarvan area Cork and its saying I will have fiber Dec 20 to Feb 21:D:D:D:D I should be moving into my new fancy house this time next year so this is fantastic news for me.

I have had 1gb FTTH for a number of years in cork and it was brillant but sold my house to build my new one and honestly not having decent broadband almost put me off building. Living in rented a house for the coming year near UCC and I'm only getting at best 15mb and working from home is such a pain in the ass with crap BB. This is one of the best news Ive had all year, can set up my home office now properly now. We will all be working more from home from now on even past this COVID for environmental reasons so this NBI is a critical piece of infrastructure for the country.

This is with Eir and not NBI I presume?

The Cush

MBSnr wrote: »

^^^
It's kinda crazy. From our local exchange alone there's numerous clusters of houses that fall under the NBI (I know Eir did this intentionally as they thought they'd get the fillin NBI contract). The 3 houses near me not covered by the OpenEir FTTH rollout will mean they'll have to run over 6km of fibre cable to service them. For 3 houses... Times that by multiples of kms to get the other clusters from one exhange and it just seems plain bonkers and a massive waste of time and resources.

I do remember the surprise it was to politicians and others at the time that NBI would be overrunning eir's cabling and adding extra cost to NBP, also as we can see from the earlier post and people in my area, still assume the new fibre will run from where eir stopped, about 700m in my case, and over 4kms of fibre from the exchange to the first house on my road in the intervention area.

I do understand the logic of NBI running their own fibre but in areas like ours with a few houses, at the end of a line, could we be left to the end of the rollout due to the time and cost of running the cable for so few premises.

westyIrl

If you leave the technical case to one side for a moment it's quite possible that over the lifetime of the contract, it simply was less costly and more secure for NBI to build their own fiber network than use OE dark fiber.

My point being, it's rarely such matters are decided on technical issues. Cost efficiency (wrt capex and residual asset value after 25 years) would have been the dominant deciding factor for NBI. Leasing of non-regulated products would no doubt devalue that asset as a whole due to risk.

From a prospective NBI customer point of view, I take comfort that NBI aren't relying on OE (apart from poles/ducts) to repair faults. I believe, having end to end control of the actual broadband medium will have significant benefits both to NBI and their eventual resellers/customers over the term.

Granted there will be some ludicrously non-feasible situations where there are small network "islands" of 1-2 premises 15km from the local exchange that has OE fiber within a stones throw. Unless NBI are seriously looking to enter non-NBI areas along these runs in future, it's difficult to see how they aren't exploring partnering/subcontracting OE as a possible solution (i.e. OE fiber from premises to exchange). However these cases may be viewed as a minor necessary evil in the overall scheme of things for NBI. Admittedly, this is all pure speculation on my part.


Jim

daraghwal

Fluppen wrote: »

Really? I had read that here somewhere but the new Eir Cable passes by the end of my lane with one of those black boxy things just one pole further on so I assumed they would just link in there. Oh well, an extra fibre cable just for the three or four properties that Eir skipped on our road because we have long lanes, no wonder it's so expensive. I'm just happy there's a chance of getting something more than the 800kb down 120 up speeds that I get on my old copper cable

I'm in the same situation. 3 houses with a 5km stretch either side serviced by eir FTTH. I emailed NBI about this when asking for a date and got this response.

Rather than connect to any pre-existing networks (ie. Open eir, SIRO), we plan to utilise our own infrastructure to deliver the NBP as this allows us to ensure we provide all premises with the same service, speeds and SLA, however in limited circumstances we will look at alternative solutions. NBI will be completing detailed design surveys of all premises prior to building the NBP in each area and this will identify any potential outliers (ie. individual premises that are expensive or difficult to build) and thus would be a candidate for an alternative solution such as utilising Open eir or a fixed wireless connection etc.

I'm sure this will be in very exceptional cases. NBI gave three very important factors for their decision. Service - guaranteed service that isn't subject to another company deciding they want to pull the plug, Speed - full control over speed profiles and pricing of NBP network, SLA - SLAs have been an issue in the past and NBI building their own network with full control over their SLA, repair times etc. etc. There are plenty of other reasons but that's just a few that are reason enough on their own.

ECO_Mental

Orebro wrote: »

This is with Eir and not NBI I presume?

I was living in rochestown when I had for FTTH I was one of the very early customers about 4 or 5 years ago. I'm moving out to the country side now and even though Eir's rural FTTH stops 450m down the road from me, I'm in the NBI area.

ACitizenErased

I'm quite out of the loop with regards pricing because I've never had proper broadband. How much am I likely to have to pay a month for decent fibre speeds? I can deal with 50Mbps, 100Mbps etc.

The Cush

ECO_Mental wrote: »

I was one of the very early customers about 4 or 5 years ago.

I remember saving the link to your post at the time as it included a pic of the ONT/ODP install. Install pics were scarce and I posted and linked to it in future posts.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97840276#post97840276

I Smell a Shill

oscarBravo wrote: »

No, I wouldn't, because there's no bulk cable outside my house. There's only access fibre. If I follow the access fibre back to my nearest DP and from there back to the primary splitter, it's possible that there's spare fibre up to that point, but that's a chunk of fibre that needs to be overbuilt anyway. Maybe there's spare capacity on some poles. There are definitely many routes with no fibre at all, and those will have to be built out from scratch anyway. Sure, and technically the pre-existing cabling could be used by any company for any purpose that suits them, but the simple fact of the matter is there is no existing process for accessing this alleged spare fibre.

Answer me this: how much would eir have asked for access to the fibre? Poor, downtrodden eir. Mishmash? There's an end-to-end XGS-PON network being built that wil be wholly owned by NBI. How is that more of a mishmash than owning some of their own fibre, and renting some other fibres from a company that's under no regulatory obligation to continue to provide access to it for the lifetime of the contract? The pricing is higher than other wholesale pricing available in the market. Of course they're complaining about it. You think they should just accept whatever price they're given without question?

Apologies for not knowing the specific cabling arrangements outside your house. I thought it was pretty obvious what I meant. Build out from the last DP on each run. It's not going to happen now anyway so it is moot.

As regards how much eir would have asked for, if we take Matt Yardley again he said in relation to using pre-existing fibre that:

The price in the cost model meant that the total cost would be lower, so from the State's perspective, that was better at that point. However, there was a whole range of other technical issues about which the bidder was concerned.

In relation to my mishmash comment you are correct in that all options are a mishmash of sorts, some to lesser degrees than others. This is why, in my opinion, there never should have been an NBI. Once the decision was made to remove 340000 premises from the IA the process should have been steered in such a way that facilitated eir winning the contract. However, their regulatory contagion concerns were not listened to and they pulled out.

Operators are of course right to complain. We are now in the situation where by the time the first customers are connected to the NBI network the OpenEir wholesale bitstream price will be less than NBI's for 300, 500 (not in NBI portfolio) and 1000 Mb/s. It's not exactly a great start.

I realise that I am probably in a minority here with these opinions so I am not going to derail the progress thread further with what should have or could have been.

ECO_Mental

The Cush wrote: »

I remember saving the link to your post at the time as it included a pic of the ONT/ODP install. Install pics were scarce and I posted and linked to it in future posts.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97840276#post97840276

OMG do I miss my FTTH both myself and missues WFH with two teenagers all of us on Teams or Skype watching Netflix or youtube with an unstable 15mb BB it's a disaster.

We all game as well and downloading games now takes days, yes days....I used to install 80 90 Gig games in 20-30 mins no probs. 20gig updates are the bane of my life now. Also it the bloody lag! I'd swear it's measured in seconds now!! it makes playing COD or R6 unplayable.

If I have an important Teams meeting I have litterly unplug the Xbox( because it could be downloading in the backround) and tell the kids to turn off disney+ first.

It really was a serious consideration when we were deciding to sell and build our dream house which we have planned for over 10 years. But I knew NBI would get to us eventually so we made the jump.

Now I'm lucky in one way, closed the sale of my house the last week of Jan this year! another couple of weeks and I doubt I would have sold my house.

listermint

I Smell a Shill wrote: »

I'll disregard the fact that GPON and XGS-PON can co-exist on the same fibre for this discussion.

You would have been more correct to have said that some of the 36 fibres in the cable outside your home are connected to splitters. There was spare capacity designed and built into the network where individual fibres have been fusion spliced direct to the exchange. Technically NBI could have used this as stated by Carolan Lennon on 25th June 2019



Matt Yardley of Analysys Mason stated on 12th June 2019 that:



I never mentioned anything about regulated products in my original post. I simply stated that technically the pre-existing cabling could have been utilised.

Let's face it, some ex-Comreg heads in the Department thought they'd bully eir into submission and it backfired on them and we are now left with a mishmash of products being used when there is a perfectly serviceable fibre network built in large parts of rural Ireland that should have been used.

I notice operators are already complaining about the pricing that has emerged today.

Is that you Carolan ?


You know you fck up the whole show by going off and harvesting houses off the original plan. Thats on you EIR just because it doesn't suit you now .. well ya can't back track now.


Frankly I'm happy EIRs gamble didn't pan out and I don't want them getting any more than is necessary , the bare minimum money out of the state for rental of their equipment.

They tried to shaft the state of maximum money and back them into a corner . And lost.

daraghwal

I Smell a Shill wrote: »

This is why, in my opinion, there never should have been an NBI. Once the decision was made to remove 340000 premises from the IA the process should have been steered in such a way that facilitated eir winning the contract.

Yes because that wouldn't be illegal at all...

Gooey Looey

I Smell a Shill wrote: »

Apologies for not knowing the specific cabling arrangements outside your house. I thought it was pretty obvious what I meant. Build out from the last DP on each run. It's not going to happen now anyway so it is moot.

As regards how much eir would have asked for, if we take Matt Yardley again he said in relation to using pre-existing fibre that:



In relation to my mishmash comment you are correct in that all options are a mishmash of sorts, some to lesser degrees than others. This is why, in my opinion, there never should have been an NBI. Once the decision was made to remove 340000 premises from the IA the process should have been steered in such a way that facilitated eir winning the contract. However, their regulatory contagion concerns were not listened to and they pulled out.

Operators are of course right to complain. We are now in the situation where by the time the first customers are connected to the NBI network the OpenEir wholesale bitstream price will be less than NBI's for 300, 500 (not in NBI portfolio) and 1000 Mb/s. It's not exactly a great start.

I realise that I am probably in a minority here with these opinions so I am not going to derail the progress thread further with what should have or could have been.

Apt username Carolan!

The Cush

oscarBravo wrote: »

No, I wouldn't, because there's no bulk cable outside my house. There's only access fibre. If I follow the access fibre back to my nearest DP and from there back to the primary splitter, it's possible that there's spare fibre up to that point, but that's a chunk of fibre that needs to be overbuilt anyway. Maybe there's spare capacity on some poles.

Just on the issue of cabling, this is the cable rolled out in my area back in 2017 to all DPs, managed to get my hands on a section of it at the time.



UND1534 manufactured by Acome in France
Single-mode fibre G652D (N8228A)
36 Fibres (3x12)
O.D. 8.3mm

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103324900&postcount=5232

oscarBravo

I'm waiting for someone to explain how it would have been a good idea to build one of the biggest infrastructure projects in the history of the state on the foundation of a commercial offering that doesn't currently exist, and for which there is no regulatory certainty.

Maybe there's spare fibre in the open eir network that they're anxious to sell to third parties (but refuse to tell their existing customers about). Maybe it would have been cheaper than building a wholly-owned network.

But if you think that would have been a good idea, can you explain why you think it would be a good idea to suddenly entrust eircom with the success of the project?

Orebro

ECO_Mental wrote: »

I was living in rochestown when I had for FTTH I was one of the very early customers about 4 or 5 years ago. I'm moving out to the country side now and even though Eir's rural FTTH stops 450m down the road from me, I'm in the NBI area.

So NBI have told you that you’ll be connected late this year/early 2021? Just interested as I thought they weren’t giving connection timelines just yet.

ACitizenErased

Orebro wrote: »

So NBI have told you that you’ll be connected late this year/early 2021? Just interested as I thought they weren’t giving connection timelines just yet.

It's on nbi.ie. Most of Cork City area given Dec 2020 - Feb 2021 timeline.

joe123

Just wondering what would happen if your current property is in the intervention plan, but say Eir decide to upgrade to 25-35Mb fttc in the next few months.

Would you then no longer be eligible for the NBI and proposed speeds of 150Mb?

Marlow

joe123 wrote: »

Just wondering what would happen if your current property is in the intervention plan, but say Eir decide to upgrade to 25-35Mb fttc in the next few months.

Would you then no longer be eligible for the NBI and proposed speeds of 150Mb?

Unlikely. Because it would also mean, that OpenEIR needs to commit to the next (100 Mbit/s upgrade) by whenever that is. And they are not going to.

The numbers are fairly locked down.

And the frenchmen is not interested in rural premises. They are now rolling out FTTH to 1.4M urban premises. Rural premises are small fish.

/M

ED E

Marlow wrote: »

Unlikely. Because it would also mean, that OpenEIR needs to commit to the next (100 Mbit/s upgrade) by whenever that is. And they are not going to.

The numbers are fairly locked down.

And the frenchmen is not interested in urban premises. They are now rolling out FTTH to 1.4M urban premises. Rural premises are small fish.

/M

I think you mean now where you use not, changes the sting of what you're saying quite significantly.


FTTC cabs are chunks of funds that could go on PON, no longer worth bothering with. I doubt we'll see any being commissioned from now on bar maybe ones that were held up for local issues.

Marlow

ED E wrote: »

I think you mean now where you use not, changes the sting of what you're saying quite significantly.

FTTC cabs are chunks of funds that could go on PON, no longer worth bothering with. I doubt we'll see any being commissioned from now on bar maybe ones that were held up for local issues.

Eircoms/Eirs/OpenEIRs aim changed drastically with the purchase of NJJ and Niel Xavier. The 300k etc predates that. This market is not static. You have to look at all factors and vectors. And this is the first time in over 20 years, that Eircom/Eir/OpenEIR has been in the ownership of an entity, that actually has a telecoms background.

And yes, one of the things he did, was completely obsolete copper and contractors, the second he took over. There will be more shockers to the market to come.

GoMo was one of them.

But the actions that has come from him have been very much targeted mass market. Not rural.

Of course he didn't just invalidate and discard existing strategies and investment. Changing a large business around that takes years. Nevermind getting rid of the internal crud.

Meh .. apologies .. edited my post above. Sometimes the brain wanders faster than what I write and the typed result is not quite comprehensible.

/M

Gonzo

Most of us in the 300k areas can count ourselves very lucky. If Niel Xavier had bought Eir years earlier there never would have been any 300k rural rollout and i'd be sitting here pulling my hair out still struggling on 9 meg ADSL.

Makes me wonder when the time comes will he even upgrade the rural FTTH service from Gpon to XGS-PON in the year's ahead when it is needed. Eir's Urban rollout and the NBI (mostly very rural) will all be fully XGS-PON, leaving only Siro and Eir rural on GPON for now.

theguzman

Gonzo wrote: »

Most of us in the 300k areas can count ourselves very lucky. If Niel Xavier had bought Eir years earlier there never would have been any 300k rural rollout and i'd be sitting here pulling my hair out still struggling on 9 meg ADSL.

Makes me wonder when the time comes will he even upgrade the rural FTTH service from Gpon to XGS-PON in the year's ahead when it is needed. Eir's Urban rollout and the NBI (mostly very rural) will all be fully XGS-PON, leaving only Siro and Eir rural on GPON for now.

What is the difference between XGS-PON and GPON?

The Cush

theguzman wrote: »

What is the difference between XGS-PON and GPON?

https://medium.com/@ivyhtfuture/what-are-the-differences-between-gpon-xg-pon-and-xgs-pon-eddbd6576b7d

2.5 Gbps vs. 10 Gbps down per fibre
1.5 Gpbs vs. 10 Gbps up per fibre

westyIrl

Gonzo wrote: »

Most of us in the 300k areas can count ourselves very lucky. If Niel Xavier had bought Eir years earlier there never would have been any 300k rural rollout and i'd be sitting here pulling my hair out still struggling on 9 meg ADSL.

Makes me wonder when the time comes will he even upgrade the rural FTTH service from Gpon to XGS-PON in the year's ahead when it is needed. Eir's Urban rollout and the NBI (mostly very rural) will all be fully XGS-PON, leaving only Siro and Eir rural on GPON for now.

I'd be surprised if they don't offer XGS-PON as a premium product to a critical mass that require it before it's mainstream. If there's no issue with the spec and quality of the fibre they have deployed on the Rural FTTH and SIRO, which I doubt there is, it should be just as easy to upgrade rural costumers as it would be urban ones (i.e. OLT and ONT upgrade). XGS-PON OLTs are also backward compatible with existing GPON customer units so it allows for a phased upgrade over time. I'm quite sure all passive elements of the GPON network are compatible with XGS-PON from the limited reading I've done.

Jim

gnf_ireland

Xithus wrote: »

I'm in one of those areas that has fallen between the gap of the NBP and what Eir rolled out. A couple of houses in my estate have been added to the NBP though and there is a message on the site saying the premises and locality will be surveyed. What do you think are the chances the entire estate would be upgraded? Example eircode that is being surveyed: A82F2C6. You can see the surrounding houses say they are not in the intervention area.

I've sent a couple of emails asking for the remainder of the estate to be added to the intervention area but I've been fobbed off.

Looking at the DCCAE Map, 7 houses in that estate are eligible for NBP and the remaining are not.

The only party who can change this is the DCCAE. Good luck

Atomic Pineapple

ACitizenErased wrote: »

It's on nbi.ie. Most of Cork City area given Dec 2020 - Feb 2021 timeline.

How do you see timelines on nbi.ie? Is it only showing for the areas they are surveying right now?

ACitizenErased

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

How do you see timelines on nbi.ie? Is it only showing for the areas they are surveying right now?

NBI.ie homepage allows you to enter postcode. If they're surveying now it gives a date.

joe123

gnf_ireland wrote: »

Looking at the DCCAE Map, 7 houses in that estate are eligible for NBP and the remaining are not.

The only party who can change this is the DCCAE. Good luck

Was wondering this myself. Luckily (or unluckily) my house is in the intervention plan, but I know for a fact some houses around the town I live, can only get the same speeds I can but are for some reason flagged as not being in the intervention plan. Ive even double checked eircodes for them and they are stuck on the "up to 24Mb" messaging.

Seems very strange.

Jofspring

My Inlaws house in Limerick is showing as:

Surveying Underway
Your premises is in the Intervention Area and surveying is underway in the locality. High speed fibre broadband is anticipated to be available in your area within the date range below.*

Date:
Jan 2021 to Mar 2021

But they got hooked up to 1Gb broadband 4 weeks ago. Before this they averaged about 0.8Mb

listermint

Jofspring wrote: »

My Inlaws house in Limerick is showing as:




But they got hooked up to 1Gb broadband 4 weeks ago. Before this they averaged about 0.8Mb

Hooked by whom to what.