National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

The Cush

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/114787/grealish-calls-for-flexibility-in-operation-of-broadband-contracts-at-this-unprecedented-time

Thu, May 21, 2020

Grealish calls for flexibility in operation of broadband contracts 'at this unprecedented time'

'The world has changed completely since National Broadband contract was signed' and Government must recognise that, says Galway TD

With many people now working from home and reliant on good broadband connectivity, and with the rollout of the National Broadband Plan stalled, the Government needs to show flexibility in implementing and enforcing broadband contracts.

This is the view of Independent Galway West TD, Noel Grealish, who has been "receiving daily" contact from constituents seeking advice on upgrading to eFibre with Eir. "In many cases people see the poles with the efibre, but cannot get it into their own homes and this is a source of huge frustration," he said.

Following correspondence with Eir, Dep Grealish was informed that the company had a contract to roll out efibre to specific locations only. All other locations are covered through the €3bn National Broadband Plan contract the Government signed last November. "Eir cannot provide efibre to any houses outside their contract, no matter how close the property is," said Dep Grealish.

However, "the world has now changed completely since the National Broadband contract was signed" with "thousands of people working from home and students studying and taking classes online". The Covid-19 pandemic has also meant a delay in the rollout of the National Broadband Plan. "Meanwhile people are struggling to get a good internet connection to work remotely," said Dep Grealish.

The Carnmore based TD has written to the Communications Minister, Richard Bruton, and the Chief Executive of Eir, Carolan Lennon, to see if "some flexibility can be achieved where properties are in close proximity to existing Eir network".

He said such flexibility should only apply to those already living in close proximity to an efibre connection, but that it would enable them to secure a "better internet connection and continue working from home and follow the public health advice at this unprecedented time".

Considering what was posted here in the last few days we know eir can and is encroaching into the NBP intervention area when it suits them.

It would appear they haven't given TD, Noel Grealish, a clear answer and I guess that suits them too or maybe the TD doesn't comprehend the answer given to him by eir or he doesn't have a full understanding of the NBP contract.

The Cush

From the NBI website

First phase of National Broadband Plan (NBP) well underway
18th May 2020

NBI contractors have been on the ground since January surveying townlands in Cork, Galway, Cavan and Limerick. This involves physically walking the routes and documenting images, notes and measurements of the current infrastructure - poles, cables and underground ducts - in each area.

We recently began work in Kerry and Wexford. This month surveying was also underway in parts of Roscommon, Monaghan, and Mullingar. To date almost 20,000 premises have been have surveyed.

This will enable design solutions for the provision of a fibre network to every premises in the Intervention Area (IA) – a map of almost 537,000 premises nationwide identified by the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (DCCAE) as not being served with adequate broadband services. For more information see www.broadband.gov.ie

By the end of 2020, up to 10,000 homes will be passed with the fibre network and the first broadband connections can be installed. In addition, NBI will have completed the detailed designs for over 20% of the premises in the Intervention Area (IA) across Ireland. Operating at scale across the country, NBI will be building in 11 separate areas by end 2020 and in every county nationwide next year.

https://nbi.ie/news/latest/2020/05/18/first-phase-of-national-broadband-plan-nbp-well-underway/

mp3guy

The Cush wrote: »

The first of these – for the townlands around Carrigaline in Cork – is now complete, and connections are expected there by end of year.

That's me Feeling incredibly lucky!

joe123

Would have hoped the site would be updated more than every 3 months.

Oh well, hopefully the implementation date isn't too far off.

Dero

I'm probably just being dense, but I can't see any update on the NBI site. Certainly nothing with a list of upcoming survey locations.

What I'd like to see is a county and a rough start estimate, e.g. surveying is scheduled to begin in county X in Q4 2020.

Even if we're well down the list, at least it feels a bit more real.

heavydawson

I don't think this was previously mentioned in this thread but there have been some rumblings about the wholesale prices it appears will be offered by NBI:

https://twitter.com/shortword/status/1261324938247536640

The commentary on that Tweet is also worth reading. Can anyone offer any further insight on this?

Mc Love

Dero wrote: »

I'm probably just being dense, but I can't see any update on the NBI site. Certainly nothing with a list of upcoming survey locations.

What I'd like to see is a county and a rough start estimate, e.g. surveying is scheduled to begin in county X in Q4 2020.

Even if we're well down the list, at least it feels a bit more real.

Put in your eircode and it should tell you

mp3guy

heavydawson wrote: »

I don't think this was previously mentioned in this thread but there have been some rumblings about the wholesale prices it appears will be offered by NBI:

https://twitter.com/shortword/status/1261324938247536640

The commentary on that Tweet is also worth reading. Can anyone offer any further insight on this?

Looks like speculation / hidden agenda bias to me.

Shrug, I pay €30 a month for 4G right now, can't say I'd feel too bad about paying more for better service :pac:

heavydawson

mp3guy wrote: »

Looks like speculation / hidden agenda bias to me.

Shrug, I pay €30 a month for 4G right now, can't say I'd feel too bad about paying more for better service :pac:

The numbers are so specific I was hesitating to suggest speculation. I'm paying nearly the amount mentioned as it stands, but I do wonder if there's any truth to those prices...

joe123

Dero wrote: »

I'm probably just being dense, but I can't see any update on the NBI site. Certainly nothing with a list of upcoming survey locations.

What I'd like to see is a county and a rough start estimate, e.g. surveying is scheduled to begin in county X in Q4 2020.

Even if we're well down the list, at least it feels a bit more real.

Pop in your eircode and if your lucky your area will have been surveyed which should provided estimated timelines. The majority for now will get the "premises pending survey" and from the posts above, they will only update this every 3 months.

They are very quick to respond to emails/Facebook and they told me my area was recently surveyed but I now dont expect an update that my area was surveyed on the website until August

Like you said though, Id much rather be told a timeline even if its far out. It would be some light at the end of the tunnel while we suffer crap internet

Saying "surveys have been carried out in parts of X county", what happens for the areas in these counties that havent been surveyed? Leaves a lot of people wondering where they stand.

Tommy Lagahan

heavydawson wrote: »

I don't think this was previously mentioned in this thread but there have been some rumblings about the wholesale prices it appears will be offered by NBI:

https://twitter.com/shortword/status/1261324938247536640

The commentary on that Tweet is also worth reading. Can anyone offer any further insight on this?

I'm paying 60 a month for Imagine, with a backup 20 on Three for when it goes down. I'd pay my kidney and right nut for fiber.

mp3guy

heavydawson wrote: »

The numbers are so specific I was hesitating to suggest speculation. I'm paying nearly the amount mentioned as it stands, but I do wonder if there's any truth to those prices...

Well on one hand you're held hostage by the NBI in a rural area, either pay our price or enjoy sucking up 4G/Imagine lol.

westyIrl

Tommy Lagahan wrote: »

I'm paying 60 a month for Imagine, with a backup 20 on Three for when it goes down. I'd pay my kidney and right nut for fiber.

This! I was paying Eir €65/month up until recently for $hi4e 2mb DSL and am over on 3 now which is superior to Eir for €20. Getting a bit hammered lately due to the lockdown, kids at home etc. but a max €60 for 150 FTTH is not bad at all. Also I'm pretty sure it's in the NBP that prices have to be kept in line with what is charged in urban areas so I'm highly doubtful prices will be way out of whack.

Jim

Dero

Mc Love wrote: »

Put in your eircode and it should tell you

I put my Eircode probably on the day the site went live. All I've ever gotten is a generic boiler-plate response to say we'll be surveyed some day (which is true, so fair enough, but some sort of time frame would be nice).

I'm just curious because that Tweet implies that the site has an update with a schedule of upcoming survey areas, but I can't see any such update there. It even mentions an 18 month period.

https://twitter.com/NatBroadbandIrl/status/1262322082433716225

ECO_Mental

mp3guy wrote: »

That's me Feeling incredibly lucky!

And me..;)

heavydawson

westyIrl wrote: »

This! I was paying Eir €65/month up until recently for $hi4e 2mb DSL and am over on 3 now which is superior to Eir for €20. Getting a bit hammered lately due to the lockdown, kids at home etc. but a max €60 for 150 FTTH is not bad at all. Also I'm pretty sure it's in the NBP that prices have to be kept in line with what is charged in urban areas so I'm highly doubtful prices will be way out of whack.

Jim

€60 is the wholesale price, which NBI will sell to the ISPs at. The consumer price will be more unless the ISPs are offering it below cost.

The initial €30 a month appears to meet the market-price stipulations of the NBP contract, but the additional €30/month on top of that (price-capped usage charge), is the thing that's throwing me off. Big question here for me is: do OpenEir have a similar price-capped usage charge? If not, then this is potentially NBI finding a loophole in the contract to circumvent the market pricing restrictions
I know most of us here would pay an arm and leg for fibre (myself included), but I do worry about prohibitive cost for the average user preventing uptake, and thus increasing the amount the government have to pay NBI for lack of uptake...

Also love that the Twitter thread has suddenly sprung to life with what I can only assume are members of this board :-D

Pique

heavydawson wrote: »

Big question here for me is: do OpenEir have a similar price-capped usage charge?

According to my Google-fu, NO.
(edited. I had previously said yes, but on reading itr again, I can't find mention of a capped useage amount with OE)

The Bitstream product (whatever that is) has pricing for NBI here and OpenEir here.

Eir says
"NGA Bitstream Plus Standalone 150Mbps Eur29.49 "
From 1 July 2019 to 30 June 2020
For this period the NGA usage measured at the 95th percentile as described above
will be charged at eur0.44 per Mbps per month

From 1 July 2020 to 30 June 2021
For this period the NGA usage measured at the 95th percentile as described above
will be charged at eur0.37 per Mbps per month


NBI says
"Bitstream Consumer Standard 150 Mbit/s / 30 Mbit/s Eur29.34

Wholesale Bitstream monthly per Mbps usage per user
Per user monthly charge based on 95th percentile average usage across a service providers base
From 1st April 2020 € 0.44

Wholesale Bitstream monthly per Mbps usage per user
Per user monthly charge based on 95th percentile average usage across a service providers base
From 1st July 2020 € 0.37


So the Virtual Unbundled Access (VUA) cost for the 150/30 connection of Eur26 p.m is added to the Bitstream amount, is that right?

westyIrl

heavydawson wrote: »

€60 is the wholesale price, which NBI will sell to the ISPs at. The consumer price will be more unless the ISPs are offering it below cost.

This what I thought initially but then assumed that would fly in the face of the NBPs objective to have pricing similar to urban premises. I had assumed it was an upper limit they were applying that ISP's could charge for that service to their customers. (I know, extremely hopeful and unlikely)

Granted, I'm a bit thick when it comes to the telecom wholesale game but the mind boggles with the term "priced CAPPED usage charge" especially when it now appears to be on top of the 'standard' service charge. What exactly is it does anyone know and would it apply to all connections? Hopefully this is not the start of pricing creep for NBI and that the contract didn't allow such potential loopholes.

Jim

heavydawson

westyIrl wrote: »

This what I thought initially but then assumed that would fly in the face of the NBPs objective to have pricing similar to urban premises. I had assumed it was an upper limit they were applying that ISP's could charge for that service to their customers. (I know, extremely unlikely)

Granted, I'm a bit thick when it comes to the telecom wholesale game but the mind boggles with the term "priced CAPPED usage charge" especially when it now appears to be on top of the 'standard' service charge. What exactly is it does anyone know and would it apply to all connections? Hopefully this is not the start of pricing creep for NBI.

Jim





Jim

It's quite possible, the ISPs simply pay the capped charges pro-rata, and the additional charges are collected by the ISPs _if_ the consumers go over as part of the individual ISPs Ts&Cs. In other words the following might hold:
1. NBI sell the €30 product to the ISPs on the proviso that they'll be charged extra if customers use more
2. The ISPs resell to the customers with a fair usage warning, and bill the customers themselves for over-use (on a pro-rata basis)
3. The ISPs in turn pass the charges collected back to NBI.

That would be logical, but I don't know if OpenEir have anything similar

ED E

Usage isn't just a cost at the access level. You're paying OE for last mile usage, maybe again for transit to your POP if you're not peering with them locally and then paying your T1 ISP for interconnection to the far end.

So if you're paying 40c per 95-5 Mb you might actually be paying significantly more.

heavydawson

ED E wrote: »

Usage isn't just a cost at the access level. You're paying OE for last mile usage, maybe again for transit to your POP if you're not peering with them locally and then paying your T1 ISP for interconnection to the far end.

So if you're paying 40c per 95-5 Mb you might actually be paying significantly more.

That's interesting ED E. I'm not familiar with that space, but I would have assumed the OpenEir/NBI costs had factored in all of the above. Any resources you could point me to that breakdown the general ISP costs in an '"Explain it like I'm 5" fashion?

The Cush

heavydawson wrote: »

I don't think this was previously mentioned in this thread but there have been some rumblings about the wholesale prices it appears will be offered by NBI:

https://twitter.com/shortword/status/1261324938247536640

The commentary on that Tweet is also worth reading. Can anyone offer any further insight on this?

The Dept officials discussed wholesale pricing in Committee last year. They said wholesale price will be comparable to the commercial wholesalers. No mention of additional charges.

These quotes from Fergal Mulligan, NBP Programme Director at Department of Communications

Mr. Fergal Mulligan: When it is built, there will be 40 or 50 retailers selling many services such as broadband, television and so forth over this network. The wholesale service is regulated at present. ComReg regulates Eir’s wholesale broadband service in urban areas outside our area and the average cost of that is approximately €30, excluding VAT, or a little less. The same wholesale price will apply in the intervention area. Retailers, therefore, will have the same opportunities to sell the same services at the same price across the country. That is the model.

Mr. Fergal Mulligan: I might clarify that. The solution we are engaged with here is to rent the poles and the ducts from Eircom. Eircom will not own the fibre cable. That will be within the special purpose vehicle. We will oversee the cable and we will oversee the rental price the special purpose vehicle will charge to the retailers. That will be with the Department. As I said, the contract provides that it will be no more than €30 per month to the retailers

The Cush

Products
Consumer Standard 150 Mbit/s 30 Mbit/s
Consumer Premium 300 Mbit/s 50 Mbit/s
Consumer Elite 1,000 Mbit/s 100 Mbit/s

Business Standard 150 Mbit/s 50 Mbit/s
Business Premium 300 Mbit/s 75 Mbit/s
Business Enterprise 1,000 Mbit/s 200 Mbit/s

https://nbi.ie/industry/service-provider/

mp3guy

The Cush wrote: »

Consumer Elite 1,000 Mbit/s 100 Mbit/s

Oh boy. I don't even have mains water!

westyIrl

The Cush wrote: »

The Dept officials discussed wholesale pricing in Committee last year. They said wholesale price will be comparable to the commercial wholesalers. No mention of additional charges.

These quotes from Fergal Mulligan, NBP Programme Director at Department of Communications

Mr. Fergal Mulligan: I might clarify that. The solution we are engaged with here is to rent the poles and the ducts from Eircom. Eircom will not own the fibre cable. That will be within the special purpose vehicle. We will oversee the cable and we will oversee the rental price the special purpose vehicle will charge to the retailers. That will be with the Department. As I said, the contract provides that it will be no more than €30 per month to the retailers

That is fairly explicit on the matter. Thanks for digging this out Cush.

Jim

The Cush

westyIrl wrote: »

That is fairly explicit on the matter. Thanks for digging this out Cush.

Of course that extra €30 per se isn't a charge on the retailer but a charge on the end user and this may be their loophole.

ussjtrunks

If I could have fibre rn I’d easily pay 100€ a month, wireless providers just can’t cope with all the extra demand

fergus1001

me when I'm signing up for fiber

ok sir what speed would you like ?
me: all of it

baileyborough

I've a weird one here.

The wife and I bought a new build just over a year ago in an estate. But we can't get broadband from Eir or anyone.

My mate in the first phase of houses are all set up, but our house on has nothing.

Currently I'm making do with Imagine, but I'm likely going to have a stroke dealing with their speeds of less than 5mbps much longer.

Checking the area, it looks to be fibre ready, and on the map, my mate's houses up to next door are amber, but my house and the other 12 are dark blue.

What's all this mean?

The Cush

Some bits from the NBI reference document

Multicast bandwidth does not consume the unicast bandwidth in the Access network for the 150 Mbit/s or the 300 Mbit/s products.

Multicast bandwidth does consume the unicast bandwidth in the Access network for the 1,000 Mbit/s product

In the exceptional case where FTTH is not feasible, an alternative technical solution may be provided. This solution will only be used where fibre feed costs of an FTTH solution are excessively prohibitive and the alternative technical solution has been agreed with the DCCAE.

on the Wholesale Bitstream per user usage aggregate price cap, e.g. €30 (150 Mbps product), subject to change after 2021

NBI recognises that End User usage on this new network may be difficult to estimate. NBI will cap the aggregate charges for each End User until 31st December 2021

Usage will be measured using 95th percentile measuring as described in Schedule 3. A fixed charge for Wholesale Bitstream will be applied to connections where the average usage for a Service Provider is below the threshold as defined in the Wholesale Bitstream/VUA price list. Where average per user usage is above the threshold a small incremental fee will be applied per user.