Saracens Salarygate: Automatic Relegation?

Guy:Incognito

Best of luck to anyone with any sort of administration role at Sarries on their CV in interviews in the future

daddy pig

They won't change the quarter final fixtures - no chance.

Too many tickets sold, flights booked etc it would be a disaster. It will be a fine only.

DelBoy Trotter

daddy pig wrote: »

They won't change the quarter final fixtures - no chance.

Too many tickets sold, flights booked etc it would be a disaster. It will be a fine only.

They may do as errlloyd pointed out, but I could see them dump Sarries out of the competition and letting Glasgow in in their place

sydthebeat

why isnt there a "statue of limitations" type limit on these things?
the game was 19 days ago.
surely all paperwork needs to be submitted PRIOR to the game.

Lamositeles work permit expired the day before the game. He played 20 minutes of the game, in which sarries won by 3 points.

dub_skav

DelBoy Trotter wrote: »

They may do as errlloyd pointed out, but I could see them dump Sarries out of the competition and letting Glasgow in in their place

Could they do a straight swap I wonder?

Due to the unprecedented nature of it and as mentioned above flights, hotels etc booked.
Just leave all the quarters as is and send Glasgow to Dublin?

Not like Sarries will have taken up much of the allocation
Plus, Lansdowne should still have plenty seats left for Glasgow fans.

daddy pig

DelBoy Trotter wrote: »

They may do as errlloyd pointed out, but I could see them dump Sarries out of the competition and letting Glasgow in in their place

Then you open it up to Racing complaining they should get the points from that game (and rightly so if Glasgow benefit) which changes the entire quarter final line up and changes a number of home venues as well.
It's never gonna happen.

As there is money involved, if the sanction is result reversal then they have to do that.

Glasgow would otherwise likely have a case against the EPCR for loss of revenue.

The rules have to be enforced. I don't know if this oversight falls under that level of Sanction however.

connemara man

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As there is money involved, if the sanction is result reversal then they have to do that.

Glasgow would otherwise likely have a case against the EPCR for loss of revenue.

The rules have to be enforced. I don't know if this oversight falls under that level of Sanction however.

https://www.rte.ie/amp/358850/

bilston

errlloyd wrote: »

EPCR changed a London Welsh v Grenoble match from a Grenoble win to a London Welsh 28-0 a few years ago.

If they did that Racing would go from 5th seed to 2nd. And Glasgow would replace Sarries in 8th.

Every single fixture would change.

So Ulster could end up playing Exeter away instead of Toulouse...that's a potential clustered*** for anyone who has booked flight and accomodation

connemara man

connemara man wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/amp/358850/

They appear to be similar instances but there will be arguments for and against.

Looks grim for Saracens though.

Former Former

So a 28-0, 5 pt win for Racing would mean:

Leinster (28) v Glasgow (17)
Racing (27) v Saints (19)
Exeter (27) v Ulster (21)
Toulouse (27) v Clermont (24)

The 28-0 scoreline would see Racing leapfrog both Exeter and Toulouse on points difference and give Racing an almost guaranteed home semi-final.

Would it be good news for Ulster though?

Eod100

Think EPCR would have preferred them being knocked out before now. If they still get to play Leinster it would be fairly poor I think

stephen_n

connemara man wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/amp/358850/

That seems to be a precedent and we know the Scots like to threaten to sue.

rdwight

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/aug/11/celtic-legia-warsaw-champions-league-fair

"Bartosz Bereszynski, came on in the 88th minute. Bereszynski had no impact on the scoreline, but his mere presence on the pitch has since caused Legia to be expelled from the competition."

bilston

Former Former wrote: »

So a 28-0, 5 pt win for Racing would mean:

Leinster (28) v Glasgow (17)
Racing (27) v Saints (19)
Exeter (27) v Ulster (21)
Toulouse (27) v Clermont (24)

The 28-0 scoreline would see Racing leapfrog both Exeter and Toulouse on points difference and give Racing an almost guaranteed home semi-final.

Would it be good news for Ulster though?

On the pitch I don't think it matters. We are up against in either scenario. Exeter is easier to get to...I think...but then most Ulster fans going to the Q/F will already have booked their flights/accomodation

KH25

Absolute mess, but surely action will have to be taken? Safest option would be a straight swap for Glasgow and leave the other games as they are to minimise the impact on teams and supporters, but then I’d say Racing would argue they should be set up for the home semi.

irishbucsfan

Because he was in the squad I wouldn’t be surprised if they are more lenient in this case

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

So a 28-0, 5 pt win for Racing would mean:

Leinster (28) v Glasgow (17)
Racing (27) v Saints (19)
Exeter (27) v Ulster (21)
Toulouse (27) v Clermont (24)

The 28-0 scoreline would see Racing leapfrog both Exeter and Toulouse on points difference and give Racing an almost guaranteed home semi-final.

Would it be good news for Ulster though?

Murray Kinsella quoted a few precedents (the Grenoble case above being one). The usual sanction has been points deductions and fines; anything between 2 and 4 points being deducted.

Squidgy Black

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Because he was in the squad I wouldn’t be surprised if they are more lenient in this case

I dunno. The fact he didn't have a valid work permit is a fairly big ordeal in terms of insurance etc, and even from a legal standpoint could be troublesome.

Bridge93

Surely there is no precedent that keeps them in the tournament? Be it points deductions or result reversals it all adds up to the same thing

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I do love on my daily forays into boards to see this thread updated.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It’s better crack on the Sarries forums as they scramble around for excuses, accuse everyone else and then just write little post asking other supporters not to take the piss out of them

If shoe was on other foot

And I wonder how they are over there today?

I love Saracens.

prawnsambo

Bridge93 wrote: »

Surely there is no precedent that keeps them in the tournament? Be it points deductions or result reversals it all adds up to the same thing

They could fine them. But LI fielded an ineligible player back in 2000 and got two points deducted. Player concerned had not got SARU approval to play for LI at the time.

Kevski

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I dunno. The fact he didn't have a valid work permit is a fairly big ordeal in terms of insurance etc, and even from a legal standpoint could be troublesome.

This is a good point. Not having a work permit is against the law, never mind the Champions Cup rules. I’m not sure if EPCR could treat it lightly.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1225763643649863680?s=19

durkadurka

The player came on with 20 mins to go with the scores level. So you can't argue he had no impact on the result.

Whatever the decision it will cause mayhem here.

You could have people taking legal action over travel plans, you could have Glasgow suing, and also Racing who missed out on a home quarter final and the money that brings in.

I do wonder if it being a work permit issue rather than an unregistered player issue, if it may be regarded differently

molloyjh

EPCR said Saracens brought this to their attention, called it an inadvertent admin error and explicitly said it was out by 1 day. They have set the tone for this already. They are not going to be rearranging all the games, and if they deducted points from Saracens that would open the door for Racing to look for a home QF meaning all games would have to be rearranged. This is not going to happen. Saracens will get a fine and a slap on the wrist.

Exclamation Marc

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Because he was in the squad I wouldn’t be surprised if they are more lenient in this case

The issue is precedent as well. Let someone off with a slap on the wrist rather than a material penalty and it won't dissuade others from doing the same and pointing to a soft sanction.

BonnieSituation

Let's not forget that the epcr can't be seen to be bending rules for a serial rule breaker.

When did this come to Saracens attention? It was hardly just yesterday?

thegreycity

molloyjh wrote: »

EPCR said Saracens brought this to their attention, called it an inadvertent admin error and explicitly said it was out by 1 day. They have set the tone for this already. They are not going to be rearranging all the games, and if they deducted points from Saracens that would open the door for Racing to look for a home QF meaning all games would have to be rearranged. This is not going to happen. Saracens will get a fine and a slap on the wrist.

I guess that fine would go straight into Glasgow's hands in the form of a settlement to keep them happy.

aloooof

Please let them be chucked out of the competition, if only for the absolutely epic Stephen Jones meltdown that would ensue...