Saracens Salarygate: Automatic Relegation?

Squidgy Black

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Any hint of white smoke?

I'd be surprised if a judgement was released yet considering Sarries just kicked off the Premiership Cup semi against Sale. Would be a wild situation.

clsmooth

Sarries 21 down after 20 mins to Sale Sharks

Eod100

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'd be surprised if a judgement was released yet considering Sarries just kicked off the Premiership Cup semi against Sale. Would be a wild situation.

Being hammered so all the one! But yeah maybe sometime after that

scott1974

50k fine, no match points deduction

https://www.epcrugby.com/2020/02/07/disciplinary-decision-saracens/

Buer

Ouch. That's 1.76 fictional Itoje PR appearances.

Rigor Mortis

Very strange decision

KH25

Comes across as though they didn’t want to dock points or overturn the result, yet knew they had to be seen taking some form of action.

Rigor Mortis

All precedent i have seen was based on points. If Glasgow wanted to challenge this they would have fair grounds

Buer

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Very strange decision

Is it? Given the logistical nightmare an expulsion would have caused, I imagine a fine was always the likely result.

Saracens also could have put up a decent argument. In fairness, a silly clerical error shouldn't lead to the expulsion of a team if they can demonstrate it was accidental.

KH25

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

All precedent i have seen was based on points. If Glasgow wanted to challenge this they would have fair grounds

And Racing, you would imagine.

vienne86

A bit of a cop out.

Really don't think it would be in the spirit of the sport to boot a team out for an admin error

Rigor Mortis

on one level, it is a good decision for the fans, of a rake of the clubs who had bought tickets and flights

Shefwedfan

Buer wrote: »

Is it? Given the logistical nightmare an expulsion would have caused, I imagine a fine was always the likely result.

Saracens also could have put up a decent argument. In fairness, a silly clerical error shouldn't lead to the expulsion of a team if they can demonstrate it was accidental.

They said the overpaying of million was a silly clerical error

awec

If they had discovered this the day after the game you can be certain they'd be docked points.

At this stage though it would just cause total havoc.

Neil3030

Would Racing or Glasgow have an avenue to challenge this before the end of the season, even?

Seems like logistics and consideration for fans won the day here, which is understandable if not entirely consistent with previous cases.

Hurrache

Buer wrote: »

Is it? Given the logistical nightmare an expulsion would have caused, I imagine a fine was always the likely result.

Saracens also could have put up a decent argument. In fairness, a silly clerical error shouldn't lead to the expulsion of a team if they can demonstrate it was accidental.

But does the integrity of the competition not take priority over hassle? If it was during an earlier pool game without logistical issues would the penalty be any different?

If it's just a relatively minor financial fine there's no real disincentive for other teams to avoid this. And based on precedent they're opening themselves up to litigation.

scott1974

awec wrote: »

If they had discovered this the day after the game you can be certain they'd be docked points.

At this stage though it would just cause total havoc.

It seems strange that this came to their attention after the tickets went on general release...

Hurrache

scott1974 wrote: »

It seems strange that this came to their attention after the tickets went on general release...

Administrive delay in spotting the problem.

Eod100

Guess with tickets being sold and transport, accommodation arranged etc any changes would reflect worse on EPCR than Saracens.

cantwbr1

I would imagine Racing and Glasgow are consulting their solicitors

Buer

cantwbr1 wrote: »

I would imagine Racing and Glasgow are consulting their solicitors

I would imagine any decision made by the disciplinary committee which is comprised of three legal professionals is legally binding under the rules.

molloyjh

Minor infringement that they themselves flagged with the EPCR. This is a fair outcome. Nobody would bat an eyelid at it but for the shenanigans in the GP, which cant be allowed to impact the EPCR decision. They didnt just admit guilt here, they surrendered the info voluntarily. Theres no way that doesnt count as a mitigating factor in the hearing. Which is completely correct.

BonnieSituation

molloyjh wrote: »

Minor infringement that they themselves flagged with the EPCR. This is a fair outcome. Nobody would bat an eyelid at it but for the shenanigans in the GP, which cant be allowed to impact the EPCR decision. They didnt just admit guilt here, they surrendered the info voluntarily. Theres no way that doesnt count as a mitigating factor in the hearing. Which is completely correct.

Perhaps.

But no doubt we'll find out over the coming days when the clerical error was found out and sent to the EPCR. Which will further cast doubt on whether "hassle" was the primary motivation for the decision.

Hopefully we knock the bollox out of them and it's all moot.

---

Edit: 25k of the fine is suspended til next season. That's outrageous. I feel for Agen, Grenoble and London Irish right now...

Rigor Mortis

molloyjh wrote: »

Minor infringement that they themselves flagged with the EPCR. This is a fair outcome. Nobody would bat an eyelid at it but for the shenanigans in the GP, which cant be allowed to impact the EPCR decision. They didnt just admit guilt here, they surrendered the info voluntarily. Theres no way that doesnt count as a mitigating factor in the hearing. Which is completely correct.

I dont have a problem with the outcome from a fans perpective but the argument about mitigation is perverse. It might be a reason not to fine, but it is not a reason to award a points deduction in a game with a tight outcome where an ineligible player played.

if I were Racing i would be lodging a formal complaint.

Former Former

It's a fair outcome.

Guy:Incognito

Former Former wrote: »

It's a fair outcome.

So the previous cases with other clubs were disproportionate?

Squidgy Black

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So the previous cases with other clubs were disproportionate?

None of them were to do with work permits though, especially administration errors that meant the player was eligible when the squad was announced but due to an administration error wasn't two days later. The Grenoble one was due to a player not being registered as part of the ERC squad at all, which is the only precedent for the ERC (as different competitions have different regulations).

Kevski

Hurrache wrote: »

Administrive delay in spotting the problem.

Pretty convenient administrative delay from a Saracens perspective. As has been stated by others, the outcome would likely have been different if there had been less of an administrative delay so that’s a pretty poor excuse.

Former Former

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So the previous cases with other clubs were disproportionate?

They were different