Why aren't you a vegan!?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Exactly I know exactly the game that is being played by vegans it is a smug superiority being non vegan is viewed as backward - being a vegan is being viewed as forward and progressive.

From my own viewpoint I still believe veganism to be unnatural how many animals in the world are vegan? Would a vegan not feed a cat fish, or cat food would the cat food have to be vegan? Would a vegan mourn the dead mouse a cat bought home? In my view it is likely as most vegans seem slightly quirky and off beat.

The real ironic thing I find is that the farmers who are much maligned by some vegans are more at one with nature than many vegans themselves.
The vegans who munch on thier avocado and toast and have humus in thier nice little urban apartment.
The vegans who are starving with the hunger and are malnourished.

You seem to think being vegan is aiming for natural. This is wrong and shows a lack of understanding and education about the matter.

It would be like me going into a topic about Pokemon or Harry Potter and writing a load of ignorant nonsense about a subject I do not know about.

It's common courtesy to research a subject before speaking about it in a tone as if you know what you are talking about

wakka12 wrote: »

This one is trotted out a lot. Why does it matter? I think every vegan realises humans are naturally omnivorous because Vitamin B12 is essential to survival and only found in animal products. The difference between humans and animals is that we have evolved to act in ways beyond how our natural instincts compel us to if there might be perceived benefits to doing so. It also doesnt mean it's necessarily damaging or a bad thing for animals to not do not do the 'natural ' thing.Its not natural at all for a dog to live in a house for it's entire life and not live in a pack and eat dog food all day, and yet they do, and they probably live longer and happier lives than many canines in the wild. It's not natural we live in warm cosy houses all day, or have thousands of varieties of food to buy in a supermarket two minutes away from us, yet both of these unnatural things have brought great improvements in quality of life and health for humans.

Good post but just 1 thing. Breaking news about B12 actually being in plant foods

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/parabel-announces-natural-plant-source-of-vitamin-b12-in-water-lentils-and-lentein-plant-protein-1028697181

Morris Moss wrote: »

A bit like a vegan talking about farming then?

I can objectively say that yes there is a lot of nonsense posted about farming on here to

I wouldn't try to argue with some of the farmers here about the daily ins and outs of resources etc needed to farm. I have no practical experience in that topic

Unearthly wrote: »

Good post but just 1 thing. Breaking news about B12 actually being in plant foods

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/parabel-announces-natural-plant-source-of-vitamin-b12-in-water-lentils-and-lentein-plant-protein-1028697181

It's a fair point, there is too much bashing of Vegans here. I wouldn't try to convince any individual from trying the diet it it fits their beliefs and biology however I'm very sceptical of the diet being for everyone as are the often misquoted UN reports on the matter.

The last UN report that the media chose to bash livestock farming with was completely misquoted but most people didn't bother to read it. There was one line in particular went something like "people should consume more locally based plant foods including grains, nuts as well as sustainable meat and dairy" funny enough by the time it was in the media that line was a little shorter.

They also stated that they were reluctant to tell populations to cut out meat and dairy completely as there is no one size fits all diet and there was a fear of more widespread malnourishment worldwide from such action.

The report also went to mention there was little benefit to converting grassland to forestry. And that different regions are more suited to different systems of agriculture.

I agree a vegan diet may work well for some and B12 is not an issue for everyone however enough of the population has never been vegan to show that it would be healthier for everyone and there is lots of contradictory evidence out there. Same applies for environmental impacts, sure farming has to improve in every sector and lots of work is being done.

IrishKev wrote: »

70% of the world's soy is grown for animal feed. The amount of food an animal eats compared to its yield results in a massive imbalance and waste of food.

The argument that extra land would be needed to grow crops if none of us ate animal products is nothing short of BS. Nearly 40% of the Earth's land is currently used for agriculture, and it's rising all the time due to overconsumption of meat. It's unsustainable.

It's funny they just throw away the valuable soy oil from all that animal feed. Very strange considering it's worth 3 times the price of the animal feed. It's just really bad economics that.

IrishKev wrote: »

70% of the world's soy is grown for animal feed. The amount of food an animal eats compared to its yield results in a massive imbalance and waste of food.

The argument that extra land would be needed to grow crops if none of us ate animal products is nothing short of BS. Nearly 40% of the Earth's land is currently used for agriculture, and it's rising all the time due to overconsumption of meat. It's unsustainable.

What are you rabbiting on about how much soy do you see grown in Ireland?? Where do all of your vegan products come from? How many forests are being cleared in Ireland? What should we do with the animals in the world cull them all and grow plants? Are you raising your children vegan would a gp in Ireland recommend that?

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

What are you rabbiting on about how much soy do you see grown in Ireland?? Where do all of your vegan products come from? How many forests are being cleared in Ireland? What should we do with the animals in the world cull them all and grow plants? Are you raising your children vegan would a gp in Ireland recommend that?

lol - why do you think there are no trees or forests or wilderness in Ireland? Farming!
And yes, we'd have to cull animals. What's the alternative, keep growing the farmed animal population indefinitely?

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

What are you rabbiting on about how much soy do you see grown in Ireland?? Where do all of your vegan products come from? How many forests are being cleared in Ireland? What should we do with the animals in the world cull them all and grow plants? Are you raising your children vegan would a gp in Ireland recommend that?

Another 'this is Ireland not Brazil what do you mean X Y or Z?' argument. There are other places outside of Ireland that we trade with you know. We're part of a global economy, and things need to change.

And yes they'll be vegan, don't worry about them they'll be just fine.

emaherx wrote: »

Brits stole them for commercial timber.

Some may have gone to Britain for that but I suggest you look into the other reasons we have no trees. Plus aren't the Brits gone 100 years or so?

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

It's childish to compare the percentage of greenhouse gases emitted across the board and question why your discounting animal products which make up roughly 55% of greenhouse gases within the agriculture industry which is 25% so let's call that 12.5 % overall. That is nutrient dense food which has raised generations of people. Instead you have pseudo science like the China study being spoken about as gospel. You see this narrative has been created by you and your ilk that farming is the greatest evil sin that man has ever made, that eating dairy and meat products is tantamount to eating your fellow man. That animal farms are destroying the world. Those forests being cleared are being cleared for vegans too, for crops to be grown if 4 % of the population are vegan at the moment how much extra land is going to be needed to feed protein from vegetables and grains?
How will we replace protein rich meat for billions of people? Grow it in a lab? That seems wholesome and natural. I have no problem with anybody choosing the vegan lifestyle go ahead. It's that exact preachy condescending narcissistic, i'm changing the world saving generations for years to come c**p I'm sick of.

Exactly as I wrote beforehand, meat in agriculture is focused on because its an easily modifiable lifestyle change , unlike your other suggestions which also have heavy carbon footprint but are necessary for daily life such as living in a house, heating your home, or going abroad(many people have to visit family, work etc).Meat is nutrient dense but so are many other foods with much less environmental impact, many plant foods are high in protein. I dont think its a sin, I love meat, my grandad is a farmer, but again, it is being targeted because it is the most feasible means of modifying our daily lifestyles to greatly reduce carbon footprint. And I have no problem with people eating meat, as I eat meat, but its important to be aware of the impact, and try to offset it in other ways, such as I dont drive and I use lots of blankets instead of turning on the heat.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yes 11% now, but most of that is Coillte Sitka Spruce which isn't particularly good for the environment. Only a shameful 2% of Ireland has native trees.

I agree, I'd prefer more native, but it is not as commercially attractive. Also native species not as good from a carbon point of view as spruce or managed grassland as they are dormant half of the year. But spruce is not good for biodiversity. I only plant native species on my own land.

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

Lol!! Wow do you think we are cutting down forests in Ireland today still? Forests are increasing on Irish farms. Our forests were cut down long before the world was eluminated with the bright light of veganism. Crops were grown and animals were farmed when forests were cleared many years ago. So all farm animals would disappear seems a little unethical. but I guess if you are posting animal cruelty videos from Australia about farming practice in general then all the animals dying out naturally would be kinder rather whats going on now. That's the narrative isn't it?

Do you think animals would prefer be slaughtered or for their species to gradually die out over their lifetime? Theres plenty of reasons to eat meat but 'saving the species' sure as **** aint one, thinking that it's more ethical to keep them alive so they can be killed is a pretty messed up narrative I would say

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

Your a regular doctor do little you are,
That age old question of existence. Vegans your hypocrisy knows no bounds are you speaking for the entire animal kingdom now you are I suppose. Do you think dogs are happy as peoples possesions/slaves? Do you think the cows on my farm are unhappy? Do you think I treat them cruelly or with kindness and compassion?
Saving the species isnt a reason for eating meat. It's a consequence of ending animal farming. That's your narrative not mine.

Animals dont conciouscly consider the long term survival of their species. But they care about surviving themselves.So you don't have to be doctor do little to know whether they would prefer being killed so the species continues or prefer to simply die at the end of natural life span along with all their mates. Again,I think its just important to at least be conscious of the very valid ethical issues associated with these practices. It is cruel to kill animals for meat that we dont need to survive.It just is, theres no getting around.We are the evolved species, we dont have to do as the animal kingdom does just because. I eat meat, but at least I'll admit that instead of saying its natures way or whatever other bad excuse, its not hypocritical behaviour of vegans at all, in fact I'd say its very reasoned and quite enlightened.

gozunda wrote: »

The comment above is Incorrect. You need to be careful where you get your info from.

You will find that the transport sector figures detailed there and elsewhere are vastly underestimated and come from a reseach methodology which has now been recognised as deeply flawed by scientists. The same figures were previously touted by the UN who used in an attempt to claim that agriculture was responsible for more emissions than transport and ended up with large amounts of egg on their faces.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/climatechange/7509978/UN-admits-flaw-in-report-on-meat-and-climate-change.html (You can register for free btw)

You may also note that pie chart lumps forestry and 'other land use' in with Agriculture - sectors which are completely separate to food production

So the fact is that anyone who wants to make an immediate difference to their contribution of greenhouse gas emissions would be best looking to their dependence on the energy and transport sectors for their particular lifestyle choices - plain and simple

Even if you take 'land use' out (much of which is clearing land for farming) agriculture still takes a massively negative toll on the planet, end of.

For somebody who clearly doesn't agree with vegans' principles, you sure do a lot of posting on their subforum. It's almost as if you enjoy bashing.