Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

tryagain

Quicker ball

ionadnapokot

ionadnapokot wrote: »

"rhythm" is definitely coded language playing below standard
u mentioned his pass in the Racing thread -"left side pass". do you mean as he passes from left to right?

Go back and watch the match from tonight. He is much more obviously deliberate passing off his left then I can ever remember. He seems to lack power and his accuracy is lower left to right than right to left.

I also am getting the impression that he is being forced into contact more off his outside because the weakness has been identified by other teams.

If you play with a vulnerability this is going to be targeted and I think whatever is limiting him has ultimately put him under severe pressure on the rugby pitch. It was later in the game so hard to tell, but the reserve 9 today massively outplayed the starting 9.

This is all anecdotal on my part and I'm using guesswork to try and explain an ongoing issue, but he's either regressed as a player or he is limited in some way. I'm of the opinion that it is the latter.

Shefwedfan

ionadnapokot wrote: »

"rhythm" is definitely coded language playing below standard
u mentioned his pass in the Racing thread -"left side pass". do you mean as he passes from left to right?

BOD mentioned a left side pass in regards to Murray on a podcast recently....expect this thread to be full of people now who suddenly think he has an issue with left side pass.....

Yeah_Right

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Go back and watch the match from tonight. He is much more obviously deliberate passing off his left then I can ever remember. He seems to lack power and his accuracy is lower left to right than right to left.

I also am getting the impression that he is being forced into contact more off his outside because the weakness has been identified by other teams.

If you play with a vulnerability this is going to be targeted and I think whatever is limiting him has ultimately put him under severe pressure on the rugby pitch. It was later in the game so hard to tell, but the reserve 9 today massively outplayed the starting 9.

This is all anecdotal on my part and I'm using guesswork to try and explain an ongoing issue, but he's either regressed as a player or he is limited in some way. I'm of the opinion that it is the latter.

Mathewson was such an improvement when he came on tonight. I was half joking the other day when I said Munster should send Murray to the AIL or let him go to France and sign Mathewson to permanent contract. After tonight's game, I'm starting to think they really should do it.

ionadnapokot

Deleted User wrote: »

Go back and watch the match from tonight. He is much more obviously deliberate passing off his left then I can ever remember. He seems to lack power and his accuracy is lower left to right than right to left.

I also am getting the impression that he is being forced into contact more off his outside because the weakness has been identified by other teams.

If you play with a vulnerability this is going to be targeted and I think whatever is limiting him has ultimately put him under severe pressure on the rugby pitch. It was later in the game so hard to tell, but the reserve 9 today massively outplayed the starting 9.

This is all anecdotal on my part and I'm using guesswork to try and explain an ongoing issue, but he's either regressed as a player or he is limited in some way. I'm of the opinion that it is the latter.

definitely
&
definitely

has been limited off his left hand since Wales 2017
its terrible & the timing was brutal. he was majestic in the previous games v France in Dublin. The best SH in the World by a distance at the time.

Shefwedfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Mathewson was such an improvement when he came on tonight. I was half joking the other day when I said Munster should send Murray to the AIL or let him go to France and sign Mathewson to permanent contract. After tonight's game, I'm starting to think they really should do it.

Mathewson for all the love in with Munster, didn't have a club prior to Munster move. Has never had an approach while at Munster and is leaving without any club interested in him.....that alone should give you a hint


Also, someone coming on with 10 mins left, a tired defense and they have 10 mins to burn off all energy, no need to conserve....hardly a good reference point is it?
.

Shefwedfan

ionadnapokot wrote: »

definitely
&
definitely

has been limited off his left hand since Wales 2017
its terrible & the timing was brutal. he was majestic in the previous games v France in Dublin. The best SH in the World by a distance at the time.

I don't remember this been picked out specifically before on this thread or any thread?


I think BOD has a lot to answer for

mfceiling

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Or the alternatives where not good enough so his only option was to try and get Murray up to speed at all costs

Yeah but how many games do you give him before you say "you know what, I'm going to give the next lad a chance".
You mightn't think the alternatives aren't good enough but if they don't get a chance then how do you know? And the last 8 minutes of a game doesn't count.

The Lost Sheep

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Mathewson was such an improvement when he came on tonight. I was half joking the other day when I said Munster should send Murray to the AIL or let him go to France and sign Mathewson to permanent contract. After tonight's game, I'm starting to think they really should do it.

Murray shouldn't be let go but other options need be given more game time be it Casey or whomever else.
Murray just sauntered around too many games for Munster doesnt need to much. Needs kick up the .... sending him back to ail with Garryowen wouldnt change that

Shefwedfan

mfceiling wrote: »

Yeah but how many games do you give him before you say "you know what, I'm going to give the next lad a chance".
You mightn't think the alternatives aren't good enough but if they don't get a chance then how do you know? And the last 8 minutes of a game doesn't count.

I can't remember now but did Murray play all the warm up's?

stl.ire

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't remember this been picked out specifically before on this thread or any thread?


I think BOD has a lot to answer for

Murray’s left hand pass has always been seen as a weakness in his game (sometimes at his best it’s the only one). It’s something that kiwi’s would point out when they touted Aaron Smith over him.

Here’s a NZ article from 2017:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/93553423/mark-reason-the-lions-have-called-in-the-aerial-attack
“The biggest bother for the Lions was Murray's passing off his left hand. On three separate occasions in the first half he gave the ball back to the Crusaders with awful passes.”

And a Murray Kinsella one from this year:
https://www.the42.ie/analysis-conor-murray-ireland-six-nations-4513683-Feb2019/
“The wastage on his left arm is clearly visible but the mechanics of his play and willingness to enter contact don’t appear to have been affected by this”

He’s still our greatest ever 9 and at his best clearly above all the others. I’ve had to defend his left hand passing long enough to know that some see it as a huge issue!

OldRio

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't remember this been picked out specifically before on this thread or any thread?


I think BOD has a lot to answer for

It was. I remember it being mentioned. Oops sorry see post above...

Shefwedfan

stl.ire wrote: »

Murray’s left hand pass has always been seen as a weakness in his game (sometimes at his best it’s the only one). It’s something that kiwi’s would point out when they touted Aaron Smith over him.

Here’s a NZ article from 2017:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/93553423/mark-reason-the-lions-have-called-in-the-aerial-attack
“The biggest bother for the Lions was Murray's passing off his left hand. On three separate occasions in the first half he gave the ball back to the Crusaders with awful passes.”

And a Murray Kinsella one from this year:
https://www.the42.ie/analysis-conor-murray-ireland-six-nations-4513683-Feb2019/
“The wastage on his left arm is clearly visible but the mechanics of his play and willingness to enter contact don’t appear to have been affected by this”

He’s still our greatest ever 9 and at his best clearly above all the others. I’ve had to defend his left hand passing long enough to know that some see it as a huge issue!

Two articles.....when was last time it was mentioned here and now we have loads of “experts” discussing it....

Come on, everyone listens to the same podcast, I laughed when BOD mentioned it as I knew what was coming, it didn’t take long

When exactly have you defended it? I have used this forum a long time and I don’t remember any real specific discussion(till now) about his left passing, on the lions tours or the WC or all the years he has played

Buer

Scythica wrote: »

If Burns continues on this trajectory do you think he'll start getting involved in Ireland camps at least? Growing with every game! Same could be said for Mccloskey and Marshall.

Burns should be in the Irish 23 if we're going on form this season. He won't be but he deserves to be in the squad at the least.

One issue he has is that he's an English lad having come over to play in a highly contentious and competitive position in Irish rugby. He's not going to have many cheerleaders in either the terraces or the media putting pressure on for his inclusion.

Clegg

VDF is the best player in the country right now. I really think we've yet to see the best of him in and Ireland shirt. He usually plays well for Ireland, but more in a defensive capacity. His carrying game for Leinster has been excellent. If we can get him I to wider channels for Ireland he'd do so much damage.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

Burns should be in the Irish 23 if we're going on form this season. He won't be but he deserves to be in the squad at the least.

One issue he has is that he's an English lad having come over to play in a highly contentious and competitive position in Irish rugby. He's not going to have many cheerleaders in either the terraces or the media putting pressure on for his inclusion.

I don't think it ever held Mike McCarthy back persay. But I do agree there'd be a chorus if he was Irish.

Felix Jones is God.

Buer wrote: »

Burns should be in the Irish 23 if we're going on form this season. He won't be but he deserves to be in the squad at the least.

One issue he has is that he's an English lad having come over to play in a highly contentious and competitive position in Irish rugby. He's not going to have many cheerleaders in either the terraces or the media putting pressure on for his inclusion.

Billy Burns? He's not IQ is he?

Shefwedfan

Buer wrote: »

Burns should be in the Irish 23 if we're going on form this season. He won't be but he deserves to be in the squad at the least.

One issue he has is that he's an English lad having come over to play in a highly contentious and competitive position in Irish rugby. He's not going to have many cheerleaders in either the terraces or the media putting pressure on for his inclusion.

I haven’t seen anyone mention it till you did

Have you an issue with him? :-)

Shefwedfan

Felix Jones is God. wrote: »

Billy Burns? He's not IQ is he?

He is, Irish family, grandparents etc

Talked about coming to Ireland when young

irishbucsfan

Felix Jones is God. wrote: »

Billy Burns? He's not IQ is he?

He is

ionadnapokot

stl.ire wrote: »

Murray’s left hand pass has always been seen as a weakness in his game (sometimes at his best it’s the only one). It’s something that kiwi’s would point out when they touted Aaron Smith over him.

Here’s a NZ article from 2017:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/93553423/mark-reason-the-lions-have-called-in-the-aerial-attack
“The biggest bother for the Lions was Murray's passing off his left hand. On three separate occasions in the first half he gave the ball back to the Crusaders with awful passes.”

And a Murray Kinsella one from this year:
https://www.the42.ie/analysis-conor-murray-ireland-six-nations-4513683-Feb2019/
“The wastage on his left arm is clearly visible but the mechanics of his play and willingness to enter contact don’t appear to have been affected by this”

He’s still our greatest ever 9 and at his best clearly above all the others. I’ve had to defend his left hand passing long enough to know that some see it as a huge issue!

Excellent points
I remember watching the 1st Test at Christchurch and it was obvious his left hand pass was still banjaxed from Cardiff.

He didn’t have a great pass starting out - that step he used to make - but he made a marked improvement during lions tour of Australia.
He even had that mike Phillips power pass going off his left hand by the end of that tour.

Think it’s gone past the point of waiting now. Farrell has to make the big decision.

Marmion the obvious replacement but has Blade pushed him to the bench now at Connacht?

Felix Jones is God.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He is

Yeah, was thinking on residency grounds... but I can't remember him saying at any point he wants to play for Ireland?

Edit...just saw an article from around the time he was signing for Ulster saying he'd def consider it... haven't seen anything since then though

ionadnapokot

errlloyd wrote: »

I don't think it ever held Mike McCarthy back persay. But I do agree there'd be a chorus if he was Irish.

says NO
Edit
Deleted name

No one cares if he’s born English.
I don’t think he’s good enough to play for Ireland.

I’d even pick Frawley ahead of Burns

bilston

Buer wrote: »

Burns should be in the Irish 23 if we're going on form this season. He won't be but he deserves to be in the squad at the least.

One issue he has is that he's an English lad having come over to play in a highly contentious and competitive position in Irish rugby. He's not going to have many cheerleaders in either the terraces or the media putting pressure on for his inclusion.

It's an excellent point Buer. He is still trying to win over some Ulster fans for some reason.

OldRio

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Two articles.....when was last time it was mentioned here and now we have loads of “experts” discussing it....

Come on, everyone listens to the same podcast, I laughed when BOD mentioned it as I knew what was coming, it didn’t take long

When exactly have you defended it? I have used this forum a long time and I don’t remember any real specific discussion(till now) about his left passing, on the lions tours or the WC or all the years he has played

Firstly I do remember it being discussed on this forum. Secondly I have no knowledge of the BOD podcast you are talking about.

stl.ire

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Two articles.....when was last time it was mentioned here and now we have loads of “experts” discussing it....

Come on, everyone listens to the same podcast, I laughed when BOD mentioned it as I knew what was coming, it didn’t take long

When exactly have you defended it? I have used this forum a long time and I don’t remember any real specific discussion(till now) about his left passing, on the lions tours or the WC or all the years he has played

I literally googled “Conor Murray left pass” and chose two of the first that came up - it’s not a secret or a conspiracy, many more articles/podcasts have mentioned it. He’s worked on it and overcome it in the past obviously.

And as for me defending him - I meant in real life! Used to live in NZ during his peak.

Murray is our greatest ever 9 but we’re beginning a new World Cup “cycle” and everything is up for grabs now.

bilston

stl.ire wrote: »

I literally googled “Conor Murray left pass” and chose two of the first that came up - it’s not a secret or a conspiracy, many more articles/podcasts have mentioned it. He’s worked on it and overcome it in the past obviously.

And as for me defending him - I meant in real life! Used to live in NZ during his peak.

Murray is our greatest ever 9 but we’re beginning a new World Cup “cycle” and everything is up for grabs now.

Starting a new WC cycle doesn't mean a lot. We are two months out from the 6Ns...rightly or wrongly that's how the IRFU and Andy Farrell are probably looking at it.

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

It's an excellent point Buer. He is still trying to win over some Ulster fans for some reason.

Not ben a prick here but...,Is it really an excellent point?

Season only really got going at the start of Nov.
10 more weeks until the start of the 6N.
Burns has only played 4 maybe 5 matches this season?
I don’t know why anybody would or should be considering Billy Burns for a 6N squad this early never mind in the 23.

Come the 6N he will be behind
Sexton
Carbery
Byrne
Carty

Tyler B is probably even ahead of him!

I must say I find the reasoning that “because he’s English born” utter bollocks.
He’s a good provincial player just like Cooney it doesn’t mean he HAS to be considered for Ireland

stl.ire

ionadnapokot wrote: »

says NO
Edit
Deleted name

No one cares if he’s born English.
I don’t think he’s good enough to play for Ireland.

I’d even pick Frawley ahead of Burns

Don’t be silly. If he ever gets a start the trolls will be out. “English reject gets picked by English coach” writes itself.

Burns isn’t Sexton but comparing him to Frawley is nonsensical.

Wegians89

Think Burns is better than Ross Byrne and probably carty on this seasons form so far but if you’re going on this seasons form Conor Fitzgerald is probably up there too. Don’t expect any new 10s in the 6 nation squad.