“Ireland has a rape culture”

Veritas Libertas

cloudatlas wrote: »

I think her point was that those issues are covered already due to the presence of 70% male mps in context it was fine to laugh as that guy Davies as he is known as a massive troll

To your part in bold, seriously cop yourself on.

As Phillip Davies pointed out there's a very big difference between

Men raising issues (which they raise more issues for women in actual reality)
and the raising of men's issues

Silentcorner

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Here we go again alright. You're terrible sensitive.

To say that Irish men are collectively participating in a Rape Culture is not just wildly inaccurate, it is repugnant...it is emotive and divisive to suggest any different!

Many many men and women are tired of this one dimensional toxic narrative that media organisations are publishing non stop and are also tired of the weak willed idiots keep gorging on it!

James Brown

Silentcorner wrote: »

To say that Irish men are collectively participating in a Rape Culture is not just wildly inaccurate, it is repugnant...it is emotive and divisive to suggest any different!

Many many men and women are tired of this one dimensional toxic narrative that media organisations are publishing non stop and are also tired of the weak willed idiots keep gorging on it!

I believe it's 'has' not 'is'.

Reviews and Books Galore

Silentcorner wrote: »

To say that Irish men are collectively participating in a Rape Culture is not just wildly inaccurate, it is repugnant...it is emotive and divisive to suggest any different!

Many many men and women are tired of this one dimensional toxic narrative that media organisations are publishing non stop and are also tired of the weak willed idiots keep gorging on it!

I think one of the largest evils of the world is that normal male behaviour is tied into rape.

El_Duderino 09

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

...

Would you tell us what you’d put in consent class? You asked me and I answered. It’s reasonable that you should to the same.

seamus

Silentcorner wrote: »

To say that Irish men are collectively participating in a Rape Culture is not just wildly inaccurate, it is repugnant...it is emotive and divisive to suggest any different!

Herein lies the rub.

Some peoples' seeming inability to not take this as a personal attack on themselves.

Nobody has said that all Irish men are collectively (or wilfully) engaging in a rape culture.

Yet as soon as the topic is even broached, people are triggered and compelled to start shouting "not all men".

Yeah, we get that. It doesn't need to be said. How about you actually engage with the discussion instead of rushing to your own personal defence? A little bit of introspection and consideration outside of your own personal bubble can never hurt.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Herein lies the rub.

Some peoples' seeming inability to not take this as a personal attack on themselves.

Nobody has said that all Irish men are collectively (or wilfully) engaging in a rape culture.

Yet as soon as the topic is even broached, people are triggered and compelled to start shouting "not all men".

Yeah, we get that. It doesn't need to be said. How about you actually engage with the discussion instead of rushing to your own personal defence? A little bit of introspection and consideration outside of your own personal bubble can never hurt.

DAMN... Why didn't we have the same approach in the Jim Crow era... "not all Blacks are criminals" "stop being so sensitive and engage with OUR language describing you." Who knew that's how things worked.

stateofflux

As one poster here wisely put it.

All the Rape culture and female empowerment articles in the irish media have one purpose :: to gain publicity

They are not representative of the wider publics opinions

I question the media's judgement here as they should be more socially responsible spreading inflammatory muck

nkl12xtw5goz70

What's the definition of "rape culture"?

How do we know a "rape culture" exists in Ireland? If so, how can we know how pervasive it is?

Silentcorner

seamus wrote: »

Herein lies the rub.

Some peoples' seeming inability to not take this as a personal attack on themselves.

Nobody has said that all Irish men are collectively (or wilfully) engaging in a rape culture.

Yet as soon as the topic is even broached, people are triggered and compelled to start shouting "not all men".

Yeah, we get that. It doesn't need to be said. How about you actually engage with the discussion instead of rushing to your own personal defence? A little bit of introspection and consideration outside of your own personal bubble can never hurt.

Indeed....

If you have read my posts, I previously was of the opinion that there was a Rape Culture, because that it what was presented unchallenged in media, like most media narrative these days.

I didn't understand where this term "Rape Culture" came from, who was using it and why.

Well, it comes from the US, where it has been used for quiet some time, particularly referencing US College Campus Rape Culture, where feminists have claimed that 1 in 5 (or 4) women will experience Rape or Sexual Assault...as a consequence, US College Campuses now observe a "believe the victim" policy in dealing with Sexual Assault/Rape Complaints, the burden of proof was shifted to the accused, this has been in place for about 5/6 years now, and guess what, the 1 in 5 statistic is not consistent with what the College Kangaroo Court System is revealing.

I read at the time, and I cannot find the report as strangely enough, the figures are not publicised at all, there were only a few hundred cases brought to College Administrators across the entire US College Network, 53% of those cases, where the bar had been lowered to ensure more positive convictions, were found to have no case to answer. Approx 90% of College Campuses were not reporting any rapes/sexual assaults at all!

https://www.aauw.org/article/schools-still-underreporting-sexual-harassment-and-assault/

US Colleges are now dealing with a huge problem as a lot of males who were accused of wrongdoing are now suing those Colleges.

I am well aware of how emotive the subject of Rape is, it can be quiet difficult for anyone to keep an open mind about the subject or even an individual case, but according to the figures I saw, in 53% of cases presented to the College Authorities were found to have no case to answer, there has already been an attempt to roll these courts into the legal system beyond the campus, posing a huge threat to the human rights of any accused man...maybe Seamus, just maybe, you are buying into Hysteria, just like I did previously!

Padraig Mor

Amaris Pitiful Pluto wrote: »

What's the definition of "rape culture"?

How do we know a "rape culture" exists in Ireland? If so, how can we know how pervasive it is?

It's quite simple really - it's an evolution of the old "all man are rapists" schtick. As this is patently untrue, it has been rebooted and reformatted for the 21st century as "rape culture" which, in essence, means that while all men do not actually physically rape women, all men are responsible for rape of women by other men. How so? Because apparently if you tell a dirty joke at some stage you are 'dehumanising' women and thus enabling rape, and various variations on this theme. You have the likes of Seamus above fulminating that it doesn't refer to all men but that is not correct - I've seen enough badly written "men must teach other men not to rape/grope/tell dirty jokes" articles to see the lie in that.

Padraig Mor

Silentcorner wrote: »

US Colleges are now dealing with a huge problem as a lot of males who were accused of wrongdoing are now suing those Colleges.

I am well aware of how emotive the subject of Rape is, it can be quiet difficult for anyone to keep an open mind about the subject or even an individual case, but according to the figures I saw, in 53% of cases presented to the College Authorities were found to have no case to answer, there has already been an attempt to roll these courts into the legal system beyond the campus, posing a huge threat to the human rights of any accused man...maybe Seamus, just maybe, you are buying into Hysteria, just like I did previously!

Speaking of colleges, one of my favourite stories comes from right here in Ireland in UCC. A couple of years back, one of the anti-men societies there set up a kind of 'honey trap' whereby they sent a female student pretending to be very drunk through the bars and restaurants in the hope that men would try to harass her / grope her / attempt to get her back to their place etc with the expectation that they would have a big "UCC sex assault shocker" headline. The only problem was no matter how hard they tried, the chivalrous men of the college were only interested in one thing - getting her safely back to her mammy!

El_Duderino 09

Padraig Mor wrote: »

It's quite simple really - it's an evolution of the old "all man are rapists" schtick. As this is patently untrue, it has been rebooted and reformatted for the 21st century as "rape culture" which, in essence, means that while all men do not actually physically rape women, all men are responsible for rape of women by other men. How so? Because apparently if you tell a dirty joke at some stage you are 'dehumanising' women and thus enabling rape, and various variations on this theme. You have the likes of Seamus above fulminating that it doesn't refer to all men but that is not correct - I've seen enough badly written "men must teach other men not to rape/grope/tell dirty jokes" articles to see the lie in that.

Wouldn’t it be a better idea for us to have someone who actually believes there is a rape culture, to define it? A cartoonish definition by someone who thinks it’s nonsense, will get lots of approval by others who think it’s nonsense. But i don’t think we’ll have answered the question as a result.

Homelander

But that's the problem. People just throw it around loosely without any real substance or definition. It's all just vague terminology. Seamus's point is also completely stupid. Of course people have an issue with the term 'rape culture', how could they not - the very term suggests a huge level of complicity or acceptance among general society.

Expressing your reasoned opinion is fine, of course, but I've yet to see an even remotely credible argument that supports the incredibly lazy assertion that Ireland has a 'rape culture'. It no more has a rape culture than a paedophilia, murder or crime culture, despite the fact these things also happen each and every day.

Stoner

seamus wrote:

Yeah, we get that. It doesn't need to be said. How about you actually engage with the discussion instead of rushing to your own personal defence? A little bit of introspection and consideration outside of your own personal bubble can never hurt.

seamus, to me this looks like an attempt to make the poster appear to be unable to "get over themselves" Language such as "we get that" may isolate them. I don't think you will be successful in coaxing the poster into a meaningful debate with this approach.

IMO a point of discussion around Ireland's issues with rape would be more accurate.
Unfortunately the statement that Ireland has a rape culture becomes the debate.

Possibly the goal was to stimulate debate around the issues, but the statement itself takes too much of the focus.
The statement is directed, descriptive and precise, yet in my opinion it has to be qualified too quickly in a debate to be useful in the way it was possibly initially intended.

There are certain terms that people will not accept.

Possibly we will concede to being racist, or sexist.
However to some there are no levels to rape or paedophilia.

To become racist. I think it's acceptable and the correct thing to do when we recognises racism.
To me it appears to be something that can be fixed. To get the label in first place you need only say something racist, it could sit dormant and unknown in an individual.

So could we live with "Ireland has a culture of racism"?

To become a rapist requires a completely different set of requirements, namely an terrible act and a victim.

People wont budge on it. I see their point, and I also recognise that there are issues around rape that need to be addressed urgently.

I certainly agree with you seamus that it needs to be discussed and addressed.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Homelander wrote: »

Expressing your reasoned opinion is fine, of course, but I've yet to see an even remotely credible argument that supports the incredibly lazy assertion that Ireland has a 'rape culture'.

Even RAINN (the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network in the United States) has repudiated the existence of "rape culture," writing to a White House task force on campus sexual violence that:

In the last few years, there has been an unfortunate trend towards blaming “rape culture” for the extensive problem of sexual violence on campus. While it is helpful to point out the systemic barriers to addressing the problem, it is important not to lose sight of a simple fact: Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime.

The notion of "rape culture" was invented by fringe campus feminists in the US so that they could implicate all men in the crimes of a few. Even though American feminists have successfully exported their well-funded ideology all over the world by this stage, that still doesn't give it any objective basis in actual reality.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Herein lies the rub.

Some peoples' seeming inability to not take this as a personal attack on themselves.

Nobody has said that all Irish men are collectively (or wilfully) engaging in a rape culture.

Yet as soon as the topic is even broached, people are triggered and compelled to start shouting "not all men".

Yeah, we get that. It doesn't need to be said. How about you actually engage with the discussion instead of rushing to your own personal defence? A little bit of introspection and consideration outside of your own personal bubble can never hurt.

because its a deliberately provocative, vague and accusatory term.

so guess what, if you dont want the reaction (nb its clear you do) and want a fair and constructive discussion (havent seen evidence of this from very many of your posts on similar topics) then dont use the term.

ball in your court.

JohnMc1

seamus wrote: »

Herein lies the rub.

Some peoples' seeming inability to not take this as a personal attack on themselves.

Gee... I wonder why. When you support a movement who's whole mantra is "All Men are rapists." you lose the right to be surprised when all Men take it personally. If a Men's rights group made "All Women are C****" are you saying Women shouldn't take that personally?

Nobody has said that all Irish men are collectively (or wilfully) engaging in a rape culture.

What in the actual **** do you think they are doing when they say "All Men are Rapists" ?
God, its scary who gets to vote in this Country.

El_Duderino 09

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Gee... I wonder why. When you support a movement who's whole mantra is "All Men are rapists." you lose the right to be surprised when all Men take it personally. If a Men's rights group made "All Women are C****" are you saying Women shouldn't take that personally?



What in the actual **** do you think they are doing when they say "All Men are Rapists" ?
God, its scary who gets to vote in this Country.

Do many people say “all men are rapists”?

JohnMc1

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do many people say “all men are rapists”?

3rd Wave Feminists and their enablers in the media and Govt.

El_Duderino 09

JohnMc1 wrote: »

3rd Wave Feminists and their enablers in the media and Govt.

Do they indeed? Im sure it will be no problem for you to find an example of the 3rd wave feminist and their enablers in media and government, saying that “all men are rapists” then.

But if you are stuck for time I’d be Particularly interested in the government example, since you brought it up.

CrankyHaus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do many people say “all men are rapists”?

Andrea Dworkin, who was widely revered on her passing within the broadsheets (The NYT called for her to get the Nobel prize) and her opinions have probably become more accepted within feminism than they were in her time. Her feminist opposition to pornography has also come closer to being the mainstream position since she first advanced it.



Interestingly both are articulations of a vilification of male sexuality by associating it in all its forms with rape, exploitation and coercion. You don't have to be a student of history to see parallels with how female sexuality was widely vilified until very recently (in fact in a lot of the world it still is, very much).

SexBobomb

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do they indeed? Im sure it will be no problem for you to find an example of the 3rd wave feminist and their enablers in media and government, saying that “all men are rapists” then.

But if you are stuck for time I’d be Particularly interested in the government example, since you brought it up.

Linda Snecker, Swedish MP "We women adapt our lives and our behaviour to men's potential threats of violence. Because we cannot see whether you are a rapist or not, we assume that all men are rapists. That is the brutal truth. That's how a structural problem looks. That is why men must take their collective responsibility. All men"

kildare lad

Ireland has a rape culture ?? that's news to me , what it does have is seriously light sentencing of rapists. I'd love to know what judges are thinking handing out 5 or 6 year jail terms .

El_Duderino 09

SexBobomb wrote: »

Linda Snecker, Swedish MP "We women adapt our lives and our behaviour to men's potential threats of violence. Because we cannot see whether you are a rapist or not, we assume that all men are rapists. That is the brutal truth. That's how a structural problem looks. That is why men must take their collective responsibility. All men"

Ok. So we had to go as far away from Ireland as a Swedish MP. And the question was whether a lot of people say “all men are rapists”.

I propose that very, very few people think “all men are rapists”.

El_Duderino 09

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Andrea Dworkin, who was widely revered on her passing within the broadsheets (The NYT called for her to get the Nobel prize) and her opinions have probably become more accepted within feminism than they were in her time. Her feminist opposition to pornography has also come closer to being the mainstream position since she first advanced it.



Interestingly both are articulations of a vilification of male sexuality by associating it in all its forms with rape, exploitation and coercion. You don't have to be a student of history to see parallels with how female sexuality was widely vilified until very recently (in fact in a lot of the world it still is, very much).

Does this person say “all men are rapists”?

SexBobomb

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ok. So we had to go as far away from Ireland as a Swedish MP. And the question was whether a lot of people say “all men are rapists”.

I propose that very, very few people think “all men are rapists”.

Oh my bad I thought you just wanted an example of someone in government who said that, if its only in Ireland and you need over a certain number of people its handier if you put those conditions in.

El_Duderino 09

SexBobomb wrote: »

Oh my bad I thought you just wanted an example of someone in government who said that, if its only in Ireland and you need over a certain number of people its handier if you put those conditions in.

It’s a person in a government who said it alright. An MP in a different country is hardly an epidemic in Ireland though, is it?

CrankyHaus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Does this person say “all men are rapists”?

That heterosexual sex was rape (violation in her words) was a thesis of her book Intercourse, though she inserted the caveat that this was only true in a "male supremacist society". However since she viewed pretty much all societies in existence in those terms it therefore follows that she asserted that all heterosexual men at least were rapists.

I suspect you know this though and that's why you're attempting to reduce the question to a literal word for word statement. I responded to you in good faith for the purposes of discussion, not to "win" some internet argument so I'll leave you to it if these are the sorts of responses you'll make. Have fun.

OMM 0000

I've never met anyone who thinks rape is ok or acceptable or normal.

We don't have a rape culture.

But we obviously have a lot of hysterical, stupid people.