“Ireland has a rape culture”

El_Duderino 09

Lewis_Benson wrote: »

What's a rape culture?

I don't think it has a definition so it just means whatever people want it to mean. For example the people who dislike change in society will caricature it to make it seem ridiculous. People who think it's a serious concern will give examples of what they think it means like how some kinds of sexual assaults are accepted in culture hence rape culture. Some people don't see those things as sexual assaults. E.g. groping was much more acceptable in the past then women complained about groping them and it became unacceptable. I think the effectiveness of the campaign is exemplified in the fact that groping women is now seen as a serious issue and groping men (think drunken hen groups) isn't taken as seriously. Shows the efficacy of standing up and saying when you think something should change.

I, for one, don't think its defined have never use the phrase in earnest

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

One or two more steps and you're a time traveller from the 1950's.

Hardly, since I'm not suggesting any restrictive social structures to restrain women in society. They can do whatever they wish... just accept the responsibility for their choices, rather than seeking a scapegoat in the male gender.

There's nothing wrong with casual sex for either gender. There's no need to extensively date before becoming intimate.

I didn't say "wrong".. I said risky. There is risk involved. Increased risk because with casual sex usually their partner is a stranger. Dating fulfills the role of reducing the risk involved because you can test your date over time to determine what kind of person he/she is. Is it perfect? Nope. But it's far safer a method than using a dating app, or picking up a stranger in a bar.

There's nothing wrong with being perceived as open or "easy".

Sure, there is. Our reputations are passed on to other people, and such a reputation will attract the more dodgier type of guy. Remember, I said she was complaining that she couldn't find a nice guy? That's because most nice guys are intimidated by her reputation... You cannot expect your behavior not to have repercussions on the perception of other people towards you. Although, considering your objections, perhaps you do.

The muggers are to blame in your scenario for the attempted mugging.

I didn't blame the muggers anywhere in my post... Fact is, I took a risk and that risk turned out to be negative. It was my responsibility because I could have avoided such a risk by choosing a safer method of meeting women. Sure, the majority of times I've taken someone to a hotel after a bar, nothing bad happened. It doesn't change that the risk is there... and such a risk is of greater danger to a female than for a male.

While I agree that personal responsibility is important in any walk of life, you really think women have zero of this?

Again, not what I said. Perhaps deal with what I actually wrote?

I hate to use such a phrase but I've never seen such an obvious example, you are mansplaining.

The fact that you used the word at all... But since I haven't assumed anyone's gender... :rolleyes:

Irish Guitarist

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ok. But probably no point getting upset when someone responds to your post though.

I'm not upset. It's annoying explaining the same thing over and over again. Here's an example of your annoying nonsense.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I would have thought it was a response to something, someone had said in the thread. Or even something the woman in the article had said. Instead of having a conversation with the people in the thread or the article which is the subject of the thread, you wanted to give out about something none of those people had actually said.

Maybe the problem is bigger in your head than in the real world.

After you accused me of 'jumping into a conversation' and I explained clearly that I wasn't replying to you or anyone else and was giving my opinion on the news story in the OP you said "Or even something the woman in the article had said." I had just explained to you that I was talking about the article but you couldn't be arsed reading the post you're quoting.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You don't think parents of small children have to reinforce behaviours like waiting your turn instead of taking things? What is discussion connected to reality at all or can we all just say whatever we want?

That is different to teaching kids not to kill or rape.

Are you broken?

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

That is different to teaching kids not to kill or rape.

Are you broken?

Of course its different. Rape and murder are extreme and infrequent compared to stealing (I'm pretty sure I said that a few times). The principle of teaching children and children learning from their caregivers, peers and wider environment, is similar.

El_Duderino 09

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I'm not upset. It's annoying explaining the same thing over and over again. Here's an example of your annoying nonsense.



After you accused me of 'jumping into a conversation' and I explained clearly that I wasn't replying to you or anyone else and was giving my opinion on the news story in the OP you said "Or even something the woman in the article had said." I had just explained to you that I was talking about the article but you couldn't be arsed reading the post you're quoting.

Is this something from ages ago or from another thread?

El_Duderino 09

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

I more put it down to a common way women argue against men. As in, controlling the definition of masculinity, and more learned behaviour.

That's my troll you're responding to. I wouldn't spend much time psychoanalysing. It's usually embarrassing to watch amateur psychoanalysis in progress.

But in all seriousness, who is trying to control the definition of masculinity and what does that even mean?

Gerry Hannon

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But in all seriousness, who is trying to control the definition of masculinity and what does that even mean?

Normal masculine behaviour is now being described as "toxic", even sitting comfortably with your legs apart on public transport is now news worthy as a case of micro sexual aggression from men. Its fairly overt.

El_Duderino 09

Gerry Hannon wrote: »

Normal masculine behaviour is now being described as "toxic", even sitting comfortably with your legs apart on public transport is now news worthy as a case of micro sexual aggression from men. Its fairly overt.

Do you mean like atwitter picture of a bloke with his legs spread on public transport where turned into an article in the Sun? If that impacts on your masculinity then I'd say it must be pretty fragile to begin with. But I accept people are different and some people will surely have different sense of self ranging from strong to brittle and even people with unformed sense of self.

I don't know what to say about that. If using the space in front of other people on public transport is part of your identity then I'd find it hard to sympathise. Most people just use the space in front of themselves and everything works out fine. Probably time to learn other ways to feel secure in your identity if not being able to use other people's leg room is detrimental to it.

Gerry Hannon

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do you mean like atwitter picture of a bloke with his legs spread on public transport where turned into an article in the Sun? If that impacts on your masculinity then I'd say it must be pretty fragile to begin with. But I accept people are different and some people will surely have different sense of self ranging from strong to brittle and even people with unformed sense of self.

I don't know what to say about that. If using the space in front of other people on public transport is part of your identity then I'd find it hard to sympathise. Most people just use the space in front of themselves and everything works out fine. Probably time to learn other ways to feel secure in your identity if not being able to use other people's leg room is detrimental to it.

Audiovideo wrote: »

He knows perfectly well you aren't upset, it's just a tactic he uses when the world won't agree with him, he tries to get under people's skin. It's actually a form of "mirroring" from El Duderino. A pain point for him is his insecurity regarding his masculinity. So he tries to make other men feel that, by accusing them of being upset or of whinging. You'll notice all of his insults are designed to portray his targets as feminised. It's text book stuff.

Haha bang on Audio well done, I knew that was coming I give a simple example of where mainstream discourse has changed as an attempt to control what masculinity is and isn't and the response is just man up, you are actually a walking cliché lad. Ill sit with my legs extra wide just for you.

Gerry Hannon

Gerry Hannon wrote: »

Normal masculine behaviour is now being described as "toxic", even sitting comfortably with your legs apart on public transport is now news worthy as a case of micro sexual aggression from men. Its fairly overt.

Especially when the same complaints aren't directed equally at women either sitting with their legs apart or taking up more space than needed. It's solely thrown in the direction of males. Just like this mansplaining rubbish.. The definition only assigns it to males rather than both genders, reinforcing the pushing of the "toxic" agenda.

El_Duderino 09

Gerry Hannon wrote: »

Haha bang on Audio well done, I knew that was coming I give a simple example of where mainstream discourse has changed as an attempt to control what masculinity is and isn't and the response is just man up, you are actually a walking cliché lad. Ill sit with my legs extra wide just for you.

Sit with your legs how you like. If you thought I was telling you how to sit then I think you misunderstood.

But on a serious note, If you feel you should have more than the space in front of you on public transport, then I think it demonstrates a sense of entitlement that isn't realistic.

I hear about this kind of thing on Boards and I see headlines in tabloids. Doesn't seem like a real life issue to me. But then again I only feel entitled to the legroom in front of my seat when I need to use busy public transport. So it's much less likely to be an issue for me than for someone who feels entitled to the legroom in front of other people's seats in the same situation.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

Especially when the same complaints aren't directed equally at women either sitting with their legs apart or taking up more space than needed. It's solely thrown in the direction of males. Just like this mansplaining rubbish.. The definition only assigns it to males rather than both genders, reinforcing the pushing of the "toxic" agenda.

Not true though, is it? Never heard people complain about women with bags on seats? Teenagers with feat on seats? The common issue is people taking up space they aren't really justified in taking. If you feel like you alone are being victimised on account of it then I don't know what to tell you.

Like men spreading their legs, I don't see it as a real world problem. If I want to sit where someone has their bag I just ask them to move it. It has never been an issue

Gerry Hannon

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Not true though, is it? Never heard people complain about women with bags on seats? Teenagers with feat on seats? The common issue is people taking up space they aren't really justified in taking. If you feel like you alone are being victimised on account of it then I don't know what to tell you.

Like men spreading their legs, I don't see it as a real world problem. If I want to sit where someone has their bag I just ask them to move it. It has never been an issue

No men are being told that women are being victimised by our natural sitting position, these women are not being fragile or acting the victim though apparently, and I have never seen a segment on tv or one of these big online media companies about women with bags on seats or teenagers with feet on seats. Manspreading though .....

On its own people complaining about peoples legs on a bus isnt even the issue but its just a part of a larger conversation about how natural masculine behaviour is a negative force in the world

El_Duderino 09

Gerry Hannon wrote: »

No men are being told that women are being victimised by our natural sitting position, these women are not being fragile or acting the victim though apparently, and I have never seen a segment on tv or one of these big online media companies about women with bags on seats or teenagers with feet on seats. Manspreading though .....

There are signs on public transport telling people not to put feet or bags on seats. Do you not see them or do they just not suit your view of yourself being singled out for criticism?

I'll take your word that there are segments on TV about men spreading their legs. I probably wouldn't notice if there was a segment on public transport etiquette on TV. I would almost certainly be watching something else.

Are these segments on men spreading their legs public transport common? and do they fail to mention other points of etiquette such as bags, feet on seats or young wans playing music on their phones?

I'd challenge the idea of the "natural sitting position" for men involves taking up the legroom in front of other people's seats. That's fairly basic manners, isn't it? The bit in front of your seat is the legroom you're reasonably entitled to use and the space in front of other people's seats is the legroom they're reasonably entitled to use. It all seems very simple to me. Depending on what you think Is the natural seating position for a man, you might just have an unrealistic sense that you're entitled to the space in front of other people's seats.

And as I mentioned earlier, if your sense of self is somehow tied into using the space in front of other people on busy public transport, then you're making a rod for your own back because its an unrealistic entitlement. Who taught you its reasonable to for you to have the space in front of other people's seats on busy public transport?

And what on earth does any of this sense of self stuff have to do with rape?

py2006

Lewis_Benson wrote: »

What's a rape culture?

A phrase coined by demented feminists to demonise Irish men.

James Brown

py2006 wrote: »

A phrase coined by demented feminists to demonise Irish men.

Ironically your attitude is a great example.
IMO, it's the 'she was asking for it' element. The idea that victims of a crime brought it on themselves by what they wore or where they went. We have that in Ireland, but it's most everywhere I'd imagine.

The kick back is generally people who don't like to change.

If you went to a gun show and got shot, I doubt anyone would be, 'Sure what did he expect? walking into a show full of guns with no body armour, when he knew there was guns?'.

silverharp

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There are signs on public transport telling people not to put feet or bags on seats. Do you not see them or do they just not suit your view of yourself being singled out for criticism?

I'll take your word that there are segments on TV about men spreading their legs. I probably wouldn't notice if there was a segment on public transport etiquette on TV. I would almost certainly be watching something else.

Are these segments on men spreading their legs public transport common? and do they fail to mention other points of etiquette such as bags, feet on seats or young wans playing music on their phones?

I'd challenge the idea of the "natural sitting position" for men involves taking up the legroom in front of other people's seats. That's fairly basic manners, isn't it? The bit in front of your seat is the legroom you're reasonably entitled to use and the space in front of other people's seats is the legroom they're reasonably entitled to use. It all seems very simple to me. Depending on what you think Is the natural seating position for a man, you might just have an unrealistic sense that you're entitled to the space in front of other people's seats.

And as I mentioned earlier, if your sense of self is somehow tied into using the space in front of other people on busy public transport, then you're making a rod for your own back because its an unrealistic entitlement. Who taught you its reasonable to for you to have the space in front of other people's seats on busy public transport?

And what on earth does any of this sense of self stuff have to do with rape?

so do you think there should be sexist based signs on public transport regarding train etiquette? Most reasonable people would say not I'd assume, but yet there would appear to be only sexist based approach if its aimed at men.

El_Duderino 09

silverharp wrote: »

so do you think there should be sexist based signs on public transport regarding train etiquette? Most reasonable people would say not I'd assume, but yet there would appear to be only sexist based approach if its aimed at men.

The signs I see telling people not to put bags or feet on seats are not gendered as far as I can see. They tend to use the amorphous silhouettes. And I don't think I've ever seen a sign on public transport telling anyone not to spread their legs.

But to directly answer your question, no, obviously. I don't really know where you got the question from but the answer is no. I don't see any need for gender in the signs. Do you?

Reviews and Books Galore

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do you mean like atwitter picture of a bloke with his legs spread on public transport where turned into an article in the Sun? If that impacts on your masculinity then I'd say it must be pretty fragile to begin with. But I accept people are different and some people will surely have different sense of self ranging from strong to brittle and even people with unformed sense of self.

I don't know what to say about that. If using the space in front of other people on public transport is part of your identity then I'd find it hard to sympathise. Most people just use the space in front of themselves and everything works out fine. Probably time to learn other ways to feel secure in your identity if not being able to use other people's leg room is detrimental to it.

In fairness, you're still shaming peoples masculinity. Are you going to call them fragile male ego* next? In regards to the part in bold, people also bagspread and feet spread.



Imo, the manspreading thing is pretty bad as men's hips joints fit together differently and it's a way of lowering men's self esteem.

Reviews and Books Galore

Gerry Hannon wrote: »

No men are being told that women are being victimised by our natural sitting position, these women are not being fragile or acting the victim though apparently, and I have never seen a segment on tv or one of these big online media companies about women with bags on seats or teenagers with feet on seats. Manspreading though .....

On its own people complaining about peoples legs on a bus isnt even the issue but its just a part of a larger conversation about how natural masculine behaviour is a negative force in the world

It's also been linked to criminal behaviour :rolleyes:

Reviews and Books Galore

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There are signs on public transport telling people not to put feet or bags on seats. Do you not see them or do they just not suit your view of yourself being singled out for criticism?

I'll take your word that there are segments on TV about men spreading their legs. I probably wouldn't notice if there was a segment on public transport etiquette on TV. I would almost certainly be watching something else.

Are these segments on men spreading their legs public transport common? and do they fail to mention other points of etiquette such as bags, feet on seats or young wans playing music on their phones?

I'd challenge the idea of the "natural sitting position" for men involves taking up the legroom in front of other people's seats. That's fairly basic manners, isn't it? The bit in front of your seat is the legroom you're reasonably entitled to use and the space in front of other people's seats is the legroom they're reasonably entitled to use. It all seems very simple to me. Depending on what you think Is the natural seating position for a man, you might just have an unrealistic sense that you're entitled to the space in front of other people's seats.

And as I mentioned earlier, if your sense of self is somehow tied into using the space in front of other people on busy public transport, then you're making a rod for your own back because its an unrealistic entitlement. Who taught you its reasonable to for you to have the space in front of other people's seats on busy public transport?

And what on earth does any of this sense of self stuff have to do with rape?

Because normal male behaviour is being tied into a violent crime against women. It's like saying women putting bags on seat ties into mothers killing their children .

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Ironically your attitude is a great example.
IMO, it's the 'she was asking for it' element. The idea that victims of a crime brought it on themselves by what they wore or where they went. We have that in Ireland, but it's most everywhere I'd imagine.

Well, here's the thing. People these days tend to lean towards the extremes in these kind of arguments. If I, or someone else, suggests that women should show a greater degree of awareness regarding risk, then it's victim shaming. But it's not. "We" can recognise that the person was a victim, and the other person(s).. the aggressors, but we can also recognise that the crime might not have happened had the victim shown more "common sense".

Being a victim is considered an absolute in these arguments, in that, any responsibility for how it occurred is irrelevant. Whereas others argue the total responsibility for the victim since she's apparently a fool or some other kind of insult. I prefer to meet in the middle and suggest the promotion of common sense which was more common 25-30 years ago in Ireland.

Common sense being that it's risky to go back to a hotel room that she hasn't booked herself with a stranger. By the same measure, a womans' appearance/fashion does affect men. The science of the biological effects of high heels, make up, perfume, short skirts, exposed breasts are all well known, but we cannot suggest that a woman who dresses provocatively might attract the 'wrong' kind of attention, especially if she's doing so without any support from others, or doing it in a less than safe environment.

Blaming men for the choices of the woman will get us nowhere. Just as completely blaming the woman won't work either. Instead, we need to reinforce an awareness that the world isn't safe and precautions should be made if you wish to engage in any activity.

Is it perfect? Nope. It's pretty impossible to combat the rape statistic of women being raped by someone they know. I've never seen any realistic solution to that problem, have you? Instead, the statistic is used to beat men over the head as all being potentially rapists... because every time a female victim is made completely blameless, the insinuation is usually made that the male gender is at fault. Hence the consent classes, educational proposals, etc. All aimed at males, but no similar classes for females to teach them to be more careful, or how to avoid dangerous situations.

There's loads of things I'd love to do, as a man, but don't because of the inherent dangers involved. The risks are too high and behaving certain ways increases those risks. Whereas, feminism has promoted the belief that females should be free to do whatever they want regardless of the risks involved. Because the risks are obviously an indication that all males are dangerous.

The kick back is generally people who don't like to change.

Personally, I have no problem with change as long as it makes sense. That it's reasonable and doesn't present a worsening of the situation.

If you went to a gun show and got shot, I doubt anyone would be, 'Sure what did he expect? walking into a show full of guns with no body armour, when he knew there was guns?'.

Dunno how that comparison works. Here's a better one with guns. A person who walks behind the targets on a firing range while a few people are shooting. Most of the shots will miss or be taken by the targets but the risk of being hit by a stray bullet is still worth considering... and measures taken to reduce it from happening. Or we could use the Russian Roulette with pistols since 5 chambers are empty but one is loaded. Would you consider that a fair risk for your life?

El_Duderino 09

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

In fairness, you're still shaming peoples masculinity. Are you going to call them fragile male ego* next? In regards to the part in bold, people also bagspread and feet spread.



Imo, the manspreading thing is pretty bad as men's hips joints fit together differently and it's a way of lowering men's self esteem.

Shaming masculinity? Lowering men's self esteem? At the risk of further Lowering your self esteem, Get a grip of yourself.

Here's an idea, don't consider yourself entitled to the space in front of other people's seats and definitely don't tie that entitlement to your sense of self. Terrible idea.

Does that kind of stuff really affect your sense of self?

El_Duderino 09

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Because normal male behaviour is being tied into a violent crime against women. It's like saying women putting bags on seat ties into mothers killing their children .

Which normal male behaviour Is being tied to violent crime against women? I'm completely lost. I thought the link between spreading your legs and masculinity was tenuous. I've no idea how these thoughts for together.

Reviews and Books Galore

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Which normal male behaviour Is being tied to violent crime against women? I'm completely lost. I thought the link between spreading your legs and masculinity was tenuous. I've no idea how these thoughts for together.

There have been articles/studies saying that manspreading leads to rape/criminality because it raises testosterone and criminals sometimes score high for testosterone. Really.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Shaming masculinity? Lowering men's self esteem? At the risk of further Lowering your self esteem, Get a grip of yourself.

Here's an idea, don't consider yourself entitled to the space in front of other people's seats and definitely don't tie that entitlement to your sense of self. Terrible idea.

Does that kind of stuff really affect your sense of self?

'entitled'.



It is not in anyway 'entitled' to have your legs be open in a comfortable position.

Huntergonzo

As a single white male I try to rape at least 5 women a day (I consider it my 5 a day), but I'm trying to cut back.

More modern man hating nonsense, but we're the idiots letting this happen!

Just turn on the radio in the morning (Newstalk is a good place to start) and see how long it takes for them to have a go at men/male behaviour or the mythical gender pay gap etc etc

2019 folks, let's see what horrors 2020 has in store, possibly mandatory castration?

If anybody actually thinks that Ireland has a rape culture, they are ****ing idiots and it would be best to ignore the stupid c*nts.

py2006

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Ironically your attitude is a great example.

An example of rape culture? Nonsense.

Calling out hysterical generalisations against men and the suggestion of an acceptance, tolerance and celebration of rape in Ireland with the use of the term 'culture'??

FFS get a grip

James Brown

py2006 wrote: »

An example of rape culture? Nonsense.

Calling out hysterical generalisations against men and the suggestion of an acceptance, tolerance and celebration of rape in Ireland with the use of the term 'culture'??

FFS get a grip

Speaking on you attitude. Rape culture is about attitude IMO.
Generalisations based on broadcasters and judges and online commentators like yourself I'd imagine.