President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

Igotadose

And, perhaps I'm not following this - a President who refused to divest himself of his businesses, is perhaps doing poorly as a result of his policies (note that how he communicates with the public, is obviously policy). And, we're supposed to be sympathetic? Should his priority be public service (the job he was elected to), or running his businesses profitably? Maybe a different communication policy would have different results?

Sorry, kind of hard to build any sympathy here. This was bound to be a problem when he ignored the emoluments clause. People still have free choice in the US, not subsidizing Trump's businesses, most of which fail, is their choice.

notobtuse

Igotadose wrote: »

And, perhaps I'm not following this - a President who refused to divest himself of his businesses, is perhaps doing poorly as a result of his policies (note that how he communicates with the public, is obviously policy). And, we're supposed to be sympathetic? Should his priority be public service (the job he was elected to), or running his businesses profitably? Maybe a different communication policy would have different results?

Sorry, kind of hard to build any sympathy here. This was bound to be a problem when he ignored the emoluments clause. People still have free choice in the US, not subsidizing Trump's businesses, most of which fail, is their choice.

Sorry, but a Federal Court of Appeals just tossed out the Democrats' emoluments lawsuit against Trump.

Igotadose

notobtuse wrote: »

Sorry, but a Federal Court of Appeals just tossed out the Democrats' emoluments lawsuit against Trump.

Shame they needed to take him to court, eh? There are 2 other suits going. Again, emoluments violations are secondary - Trump's policy was to not divest himself of his businesses, and now, you're looking for sympathy for him because his policy has alienated enough customers that he may (again, no tax returns, so we're just speculating) be losing money as a result. Crocodile tears seem applicable.

kilns

notobtuse wrote: »

Sorry, but a Federal Court of Appeals just tossed out the Democrats' emoluments lawsuit against Trump.

Just to be clear that law suit was specifically for receiving benefits from foreign governments. It did not cover his abuse of using mar a lago, doonbeg, turnberry, Doral, etc etc

Boggles

notobtuse wrote: »

I'm sure some aren't. And some democrats are fond of him. Recently Trump spoke in New Jersey (solid blue state). Over 100,000 tickets were sought after for a venue that only held around 7,400. The interesting thing is 26% of them identified as democrats.

Really? And there is tangible proof of this.

Trump also claimed to have watched 1000s of people cheering the 9/11 attacks in New Jersey.

Why does everything has to be so bigly. Even the lies.

notobtuse

Igotadose wrote: »

And, perhaps I'm not following this - a President who refused to divest himself of his businesses, is perhaps doing poorly as a result of his policies (note that how he communicates with the public, is obviously policy). And, we're supposed to be sympathetic? Should his priority be public service (the job he was elected to), or running his businesses profitably? Maybe a different communication policy would have different results?

Sorry, kind of hard to build any sympathy here. This was bound to be a problem when he ignored the emoluments clause. People still have free choice in the US, not subsidizing Trump's businesses, most of which fail, is their choice.

Never said I was looking for any Trump sympathy. I was merely noting that Trump was not making a financial killing just because some of the secret service and staff occasionally stay at the Florida property, especially when you look at the total picture of all his holdings.

Igotadose

notobtuse wrote: »

Never said I was looking for any Trump sympathy. I was merely noting that Trump was not making a financial killing just because some of the secret service and staff occasionally stay at the Florida property, especially when you look at the total picture of all his holdings.

until we see his taxes, we can't make this judgement. He might be. We've only his word for it that revenues at Trump U., Mar-a-lago, whatever-the-feck have some impact on his personal wealth. They could all just be brands run by someone else who deals with the revenue aspects and pays Trump a fee.

The 'moral' question isn't whether he's profiting here, is, whether he's personally getting revenue he otherwise would not be entitled do, had he not directed US government business to those properties. THere are better golf resorts in Florida and NJ. Government meetings can happen at Camp David. Etc. All comes down to Trump's personal policy to send things his way.

notobtuse

In fairness, I’m pretty sure at least some of those democrats that tried to get tickets for Trump’s rally did so in order to protest Trump.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/28/trump-draws-huge-crowds-days-before-nj-rally/

Boggles

notobtuse wrote: »

In fairness, I’m pretty sure at least some of those democrats that tried to get tickets for Trump’s rally did so in order to protest Trump.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/28/trump-draws-huge-crowds-days-before-nj-rally/

There is no tangible evidence in that article of either of your claims.

JRant

notobtuse wrote: »

So Adam Schiff just tweeted...

“We did our constitutional duty and upheld our oath, even as many Senators did not.

They declined to hear from witnesses and refused to convict even as they admitted the case against the President was proven.

The voters will hold them, and the President, accountable.”

Huh? Didn’t Schiff spend months telling voters they weren’t smart enough to hold the president accountable at election time and that’s why they rushed the impeachment and were trying so hard to get Trump removed from office before the election?

He also said the they had evidence was irrefutable. I mean it was was irrefutable that they actually needed more witnesses and documents to actually make their case. It's almost like they didn't do their job in the House and then threw the toys out of the pram when the Senate didn't bend to their will.

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

He also said the they had evidence was irrefutable. I mean it was was irrefutable that they actually needed more witnesses and documents to actually make their case. It's almost like they didn't do their job in the House and then threw the toys out of the pram when the Senate didn't bend to their will.

GOP Senators declared they had proven their case on the House evidence, one voted to have Trump removed.

Let me guess, liars never Trumpers?

:rolleyes:

JRant

Boggles wrote: »

GOP Senators declared they had proven their case on the House evidence, one voted to have Trump removed.

Let me guess, liars never Trumpers?

:rolleyes:

Was it 3 GOP senators?
2 said it didn't rise to the standard of an impeachable offence and a third voted in favour of it.

I don't think they were liars at all. I think they took a view of the evidence presented and came to their own conclusions.

notobtuse

I honestly don’t know what to think anymore. I’ve just seen something that has blown my mind. Ideologically speaking, I might owe Obama and Biden an apology in this Ukrainian matter. It wouldn’t surprise me if everything, from everyone, involving Ukraine was now dropped and never talked about again... for the good of the nation.

Boggles

notobtuse wrote: »

I honestly don’t know what to think anymore. I’ve just seen something that has blown my mind. Ideologically speaking, I might owe Obama and Biden an apology in this Ukrainian matter. It wouldn’t surprise me if everything, from everyone, involving Ukraine was now dropped and never talked about again... for the good of the nation.

Píssíng Prostitutes?

Tasfasdf

JRant wrote: »

Was it 3 GOP senators?
2 said it didn't rise to the standard of an impeachable offence and a third voted in favour of it.

I don't think they were liars at all. I think they took a view of the evidence presented and came to their own conclusions.

Its all about feelings and not facts with the loony left

FreeThePants

JRant wrote: »

He also said the they had evidence was irrefutable. I mean it was was irrefutable that they actually needed more witnesses and documents to actually make their case. It's almost like they didn't do their job in the House and then threw the toys out of the pram when the Senate didn't bend to their will.

Some of the senators logic for clearing him was "maybe he learned his lesson and won't do it again", confirming that they knew he had broken the law and that there literally was no defense for not impeaching him. And of course, hours later he "learned his lesson" by firing people who had been called to give testimony under oath.

Other senators said they knew he did it but just literally laughed, before a quitting him.

Meanwhile the spokesperson for the GOP senators, mitch McConnell, literally came out and said it would be a rigged trial with jurors who were biased... and that is exactly what they did.

The GOP are not pretending that Trump shouldn't have been impeached, they switched their tact to essentially "the law does not apply to him because we won't let it".

Since they're not even pretending any more, why are you?

notobtuse

Boggles wrote: »

Píssíng Prostitutes?

No, something quite serious. Perhaps it will all come out in a few weeks. Or since Congress now has the documentation in their hands, it might just be buried. Or it might be nothing and we'll just go back to the political war.

Boggles

notobtuse wrote: »

No, something quite serious. Perhaps it will all come out in a few weeks. Or since Congress now has the documentation in their hands, it might just be buried. Or it might be nothing and we'll just go back to the political war.

Sure throw it up there and I'll decide.

notobtuse

Boggles wrote: »

Sure throw it up there and I'll decide.

Not until I know more. It involves economic warfare.

Boggles

notobtuse wrote: »

Not until I know more. It involves economic warfare.

You tease.

Rudy will find out and his goons.

notobtuse

Boggles wrote: »

You tease.

Rudy will find out and his goons.

Only if he follows the money. But there is only so far that will get him.

Outlaw Pete

Boggles wrote: »

Píssíng Prostitutes?

Maybe you didn't get the memo, but those Russian sourced lies (paid for by Clinton) were shown to be just that, lies, so hardly likely to get rehashed, but one never knows I guess, November looms large and the democrats are as desperate now as they were in 2016.

notobtuse wrote: »

I honestly don’t know what to think anymore. I’ve just seen something that has blown my mind. Ideologically speaking, I might owe Obama and Biden an apology in this Ukrainian matter. It wouldn’t surprise me if everything, from everyone, involving Ukraine was now dropped and never talked about again... for the good of the nation.

Seen that too. Think it's baloney myself. Smidgen of truth being exaggerated. I get why people would want to go that route though, given that not too long ago we had the left saying Trump was responsible for Iran bringing down an airliner.

notobtuse

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Seen that too. Think it's baloney myself. Smidgen of truth being exaggerated. I get why people would want to go that route though, given that not too long ago we had the left saying Trump was responsible for Iran bringing down an airliner.

But if true we’re looking at Iran-Contra on steroids (and not Trump).

Boggles

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Seen that too.

notobtuse wrote: »

But if true we’re looking at Iran-Contra on steroids (and not Trump).

So some loon on twitter. Can we not share it with the group?

ohnonotgmail

notobtuse wrote: »

I honestly don’t know what to think anymore. I’ve just seen something that has blown my mind. Ideologically speaking, I might owe Obama and Biden an apology in this Ukrainian matter. It wouldn’t surprise me if everything, from everyone, involving Ukraine was now dropped and never talked about again... for the good of the nation.

The good of the nation would have been the Senators upholding the oath they took and convicting trump.

Billy Mays

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Seen that too.

notobtuse wrote: »

But if true we’re looking at Iran-Contra on steroids (and not Trump).

Boggles wrote: »

So some loon on twitter. Can we not share it with the group?

Diamond and Silk with the inside scoop :cool:

kilns

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The good of the nation would have been the Senators upholding the oath they took and convicting trump.

The US was never a democracy so I dont see what they would start now

notobtuse

You'd think democrats would have waited a month or two but here they go again with their neverending investigations and impeachment of Trump. Trump tweeted about the absurdly of such a long sentence the Deep State prosecutors suggested for Roger Stone and the democrats collective heads exploded. Funny how "lying to the FBI" was a crime created after the witch-hunt investigation of Trump began, right? The judge who is presiding over Stone's case is the same judge that threw Manafort into solitary confinement and was subjected to torture like some terrorist. Manafort's crime was tax evasion and money laundering years before Trump was president.

Yet no jail time for Tony Podesta, Hillary Clinton, James Comey, Andrew McCabe, John Brennan, and James Clapper for their illegal activities. Not only are democrats not interested in investigation their crimes they are protecting the criminals and they didn’t give two hoots that Barack Obama directed Eric Holder to do his bidding.

Trump has every right to direct the DOJ to investigate obvious corruption within the department where it seems Democrat holdover operatives have been covertly working to smear and destroy Trump. There are serious questions if the prosecutors in the Stone case lied to the DOJ about the sentencing recommendation. So now it comes under scrutiny and four prosecutors have resigned… Hmmm, I wonder why!

And now Democrats who control the House are refusing to address the Justice Department’s inspector general’s report detailing the FBI’s FISA abuses used against Trump. Yet the House Intelligence Committee is mandated with overseeing the Intelligence Community.

If the democrats are hell-bent on dragging Trump through absolute hell during his entire presidency Trump should direct the Attorney General to investigate every one of the democrats noted above who got away with their crimes, look into every one of Obama's holdovers who are illegally leaking classified and top secret intel, and handcuff, charge and convicted every one of them for what they have done. Why not? If democrats can’t find a reason to investigate and impeach Trump they’ll just make things up. Trump should do to the democrats what they are doing to him… what difference does it make? And the democrats should worry because they’re the ones who have committed actual crimes and Trump will be unchained after winning the election.

Timberrrrrrrr

notobtuse wrote: »

You'd think democrats would have waited a month or two but here they go again with their neverending investigations and impeachment of Trump. Trump tweeted about the absurdly of such a long sentence the Deep State prosecutors suggested for Roger Stone and the democrats collective heads exploded. Funny how "lying to the FBI" was a crime created after the witch-hunt investigation of Trump began, right? The judge who is presiding over Stone's case is the same judge that threw Manafort into solitary confinement and was subjected to torture like some terrorist. Manafort's crime was tax evasion and money laundering years before Trump was president.

Yet no jail time for Tony Podesta, Hillary Clinton, James Comey, Andrew McCabe, John Brennan, and James Clapper for their illegal activities. Not only are democrats not interested in investigation their crimes they are protecting the criminals and they didn’t give two hoots that Barack Obama directed Eric Holder to do his bidding.

Trump has every right to direct the DOJ to investigate obvious corruption within the department where it seems Democrat holdover operatives have been covertly working to smear and destroy Trump. There are serious questions if the prosecutors in the Stone case lied to the DOJ about the sentencing recommendation. So now it comes under scrutiny and four prosecutors have resigned… Hmmm, I wonder why!

And now Democrats who control the House are refusing to address the Justice Department’s inspector general’s report detailing the FBI’s FISA abuses used against Trump. Yet the House Intelligence Committee is mandated with overseeing the Intelligence Community.

If the democrats are hell-bent on dragging Trump through absolute hell during his entire presidency Trump should direct the Attorney General to investigate every one of the democrats noted above who got away with their crimes, look into every one of Obama's holdovers who are illegally leaking classified and top secret intel, and handcuff, charge and convicted every one of them for what they have done. Why not? If democrats can’t find a reason to investigate and impeach Trump they’ll just make things up. Trump should do to the democrats what they are doing to him… what difference does it make? And the democrats should worry because they’re the ones who have committed actual crimes and Trump will be unchained after winning the election.

Sounds terrible!


Oh wait


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2018/7/11/17561616/paul-manafort-solitary-confinement

Manafort “is not confined to a cell”

Between 8:30 am and 10 pm, Manafort “has access to a separate workroom at the jail to meet with his attorneys and legal team”

He has “his own bathroom and shower facility”

He has “his own personal telephone,” which he can use more than 12 hours a dayThose calls are limited to 15 minutes each, but when they cut off, he can just call the person back immediately

He’s made nearly 300 phone calls in the last three weeks

He has a personal laptop he can use in his unit to review materials and prepare for his trial

He was provided an extension cord to let him use his laptop in either his unit or his workroom

He’s not allowed to send emails, but he “has developed a workaround” for even that — his legal team brings in a laptop, he drafts the emails on that laptop, and they send them out after they leave.

He’s being treated like a “VIP,” according to his own account on a monitored phone call.

What "torture" was he subjected to?

Boggles

notobtuse wrote: »

You'd think democrats would have waited a month or two but here they go again with their neverending investigations and impeachment of Trump. Trump tweeted about the absurdly of such a long sentence the Deep State prosecutors suggested for Roger Stone and the democrats collective heads exploded. Funny how "lying to the FBI" was a crime created after the witch-hunt investigation of Trump began, right? The judge who is presiding over Stone's case is the same judge that threw Manafort into solitary confinement and was subjected to torture like some terrorist. Manafort's crime was tax evasion and money laundering years before Trump was president.

Yet no jail time for Tony Podesta, Hillary Clinton, James Comey, Andrew McCabe, John Brennan, and James Clapper for their illegal activities. Not only are democrats not interested in investigation their crimes they are protecting the criminals and they didn’t give two hoots that Barack Obama directed Eric Holder to do his bidding.

Trump has every right to direct the DOJ to investigate obvious corruption within the department where it seems Democrat holdover operatives have been covertly working to smear and destroy Trump. There are serious questions if the prosecutors in the Stone case lied to the DOJ about the sentencing recommendation. So now it comes under scrutiny and four prosecutors have resigned… Hmmm, I wonder why!

And now Democrats who control the House are refusing to address the Justice Department’s inspector general’s report detailing the FBI’s FISA abuses used against Trump. Yet the House Intelligence Committee is mandated with overseeing the Intelligence Community.

If the democrats are hell-bent on dragging Trump through absolute hell during his entire presidency Trump should direct the Attorney General to investigate every one of the democrats noted above who got away with their crimes, look into every one of Obama's holdovers who are illegally leaking classified and top secret intel, and handcuff, charge and convicted every one of them for what they have done. Why not? If democrats can’t find a reason to investigate and impeach Trump they’ll just make things up. Trump should do to the democrats what they are doing to him… what difference does it make? And the democrats should worry because they’re the ones who have committed actual crimes and Trump will be unchained after winning the election.

Jesus that is some Trumpian ranting and raving.

I think you need to take a bit of break from the Big Bad Orange Man.

It's not healthy.