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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)
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Before we move on to that do you accept that
A) the Stormont assembly can impose a hard border if it desires?
This is a breach of the Irish Governments red line that no hard border could result from any agreement?
A. From newspaper reports, it would seem so.
B. It's a pragmatic shift in position.0 -
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Before we move on to that do you accept that
A) the Stormont assembly can impose a hard border if it desires? This is a breach of the Irish Governments red line that no hard border could result from any agreement?
So you want a solution imposed on people in the north that they have no say in whatsoever?
That was never going to happen nor should any such thing happen.
How would we like something like that imposed on us with no say?
The reality is when the dust settles it is going to be impossible for them to leave the arrangements anyway for practical purposes.
Why would they vote for a hard border and economic mayhem for themselves?0 -
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Before we move on to that do you accept that
A) the Stormont assembly can impose a hard border if it desires? This is a breach of the Irish Governments red line that no hard border could result from any agreement?
This is Manufacturing Northern Ireland's take on it. They seem to be very positive about it.Many farmers and business owners, in contrast, welcomed a deal that would keep trade flowing and avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland. “What is good is that a deal is struck, we can move on to the more positive conversation about the future relationship and, regardless, Northern Ireland can continue to have tariff-free, quota-free access to both the UK and the EU’s single market,” said the Manufacturing Northern Ireland chief executive, Stephen Kelly.
They are relieved they have certainty as the new arrangements will mean the same trading environment for four years beyond the transition period. Stormont then gets to vote, and if the new regime is popular and can command 60% support – with at least 40% each of the nationalist and unionist votes – it will be rolled over for another eight years, a protracted EU alignment that is anathema to the DUP.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/17/rival-unionists-accuse-dup-of-catastrophic-brexit-miscalculation0 -
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Professor Moriarty wrote: »Okay pal. Under what circumstances do you think that Stormont will impose a hard border? No problem if you can't think of any.Professor Moriarty wrote: »A. From newspaper reports, it would seem so.
B. It's a pragmatic shift in position.
I'll take it that you're saying yes to both but would rather not admit to it.
You're asking under what circumstances would the NI assembly take such a course, well answer this honestly a year before these events occurred did anyone think them remotely possible:
Donald Trump becoming president
Jeremy Corbyn becoming Labour leader in the UK
the UK voting to leave the EU
The British Labour party being as bitterly split as the Tories on Europe
Nazis winning seats in Germany
A no deal Brexit becoming highly possible
Boris Johnson becoming British PM
A UK PM being found to have misled the Queen
The UK government being dragged to the high court and found to have illegally pro-rouged parliament
The British Courts finding that sections of the Good Friday agreement does not apply because.
A Taoiseach agreeing to give Stormont the ability to impose a hard border on this Island
"It will never happen" is wishful thinking in an era where everything is in flux. If you don't want it to happen then don't create a mechanism by which it can actually happen0 -
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I'll take it that you're saying yes to both but would rather not admit to it.
You're asking under what circumstances would the NI assembly take such a course, well answer this honestly a year before these events occurred did anyone think them remotely possible:
Donald Trump becoming president
Jeremy Corbyn becoming Labour leader in the UK
the UK voting to leave the EU
The British Labour party being as bitterly split as the Tories on Europe
Nazis winning seats in Germany
A no deal Brexit becoming highly possible
Boris Johnson becoming British PM
A UK PM being found to have misled the Queen
The UK government being dragged to the high court and found to have illegally pro-rouged parliament
The British Courts finding that sections of the Good Friday agreement does not apply because.
A Taoiseach agreeing to give Stormont the ability to impose a hard border on this Island
"It will never happen" is wishful thinking in an era where everything is in flux. If you don't want it to happen then don't create a mechanism by which it can actually happen
But none of those points answer this question (which I've asked you at least three times):
Under what circumstances do you think NI will vote to impose a hard border?0 -
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I'll take it that you're saying yes to both but would rather not admit to it.
You're asking under what circumstances would the NI assembly take such a course, well answer this honestly a year before these events occurred did anyone think them remotely possible:
Donald Trump becoming president
Jeremy Corbyn becoming Labour leader in the UK
the UK voting to leave the EU
The British Labour party being as bitterly split as the Tories on Europe
Nazis winning seats in Germany
A no deal Brexit becoming highly possible
Boris Johnson becoming British PM
A UK PM being found to have misled the Queen
The UK government being dragged to the high court and found to have illegally pro-rouged parliament
The British Courts finding that sections of the Good Friday agreement does not apply because.
A Taoiseach agreeing to give Stormont the ability to impose a hard border on this Island
"It will never happen" is wishful thinking in an era where everything is in flux. If you don't want it to happen then don't create a mechanism by which it can actually happen
The British could and quite feasibly (if it suited them) and easily ignored the backstop at any point they wished.
This way, the responsibility for a hard border lies with those who directly have to vote for it.
It's a brilliant result from an Irish perspective in my opinion. Imagine somebody out lobbying for that? And you can be sure in any election that matters they will be asked what they will do.0 -
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The Financial Times think Johnson needs just 2 MP's to come over to his side in order for this to pass - DUP withdrawing support may not even matter.
Such a split vote would only lead to further rancour and division. Imagine the UK leaving the EU with this deal with a majority of one or two MPs in Parliament.0 -
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Professor Moriarty wrote: »But none of those points answer this question (which I've asked you at least three times):
Under what circumstances do you think NI will vote to impose a hard border?
You've asked three times and I've asked you to follow your own logic, you've been dragged to admitting that I was right on two counts but won't take the final step, that you can't reliably state that a NI vote to establish a hard border in four years is unforeseeable. Whereas, two days ago it was impossible.
So before I answer, did any of those events seem likely to you a year before they occurred. Just bear in mind that your credibility rests on you answering in the negative to that 0 -
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This discussion has been closed.
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