Things the PC brigade don't want to hear or admit

Stop moaning ffs

blanch152 wrote: »

On the other hand, if you are a large employer, and you have a policy of not employing people with a criminal record, you are likely to have a lower proportion of traveller employees compared to the population in general.

Are you indirectly discriminating as a result? It is an interesting question.

So it’s only travelers have criminal records and more than the settled community in tallaght or limerick or Belfast?

Are you really sure about that

Blueshoe

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

So it’s only travelers have criminal records and more than the settled community in tallaght or limerick or Belfast?

Are you really sure about that

Yes.
Most travellers have criminal records.

OMM 0000

Look, there are definitely decent travellers out there. But growing up in Dublin 100% of travellers I met were either dodgy as **** or scumbags.

As a community they need to accept some responsibility for their actions and get their **** together.

pgj2015

jmayo wrote: »

I notice the recurring debate about hiring travellers.

But can I ask what actual jobs could most of them now do ?

They do not have any trades and most have limited education.

Also a large number of them would be totally unsuitable for customer interaction as
a) if they sounded anything like a lot of travellers, the reputation garnered over decades by their fellow travellers would be totally off putting to customers
b) in my experience a sizable number of travellers tend to have feck all people skills and are liable to fly off the handle given any criticism.

working on building sites laboring

working for the co council making roads

factory work

landscaping

if they spent more time working they would have less time for petty feuds with fellow travellers.

Redneck Reject

I had met a really old Traveller who still made pots, cups, and bowls from copper that he sold by the roadside. Where he got the copper I didn't care, but the old stories he told I found fascinating. IMO he embodied a Traveller, the ones today are just con artists, thugs, and thieves.

Blueshoe

Blueshoe wrote: »

Yes.
Most travellers have criminal records.

Do you have a link to that?

We know that travellers are over-represented in the prisons, relative to population. It's rather a different thing to suggest that most travellers have criminal records. If you look at the overall prison statistics for Year X, you will find that prisoners are counted multiple times. If I'm being arrested every couple of weeks and being held on remand, or given sentences of one month at a time, I may appear in the prisoner statistics several times for Year X.

This is a common occurance. It's a bit like counting the passengers that pass through Dublin airport; the overall transit figure is much higher than the number of unique individuals -- again, people are counted several times.

Redneck Reject wrote: »

I had met a really old Traveller who still made pots, cups, and bowls from copper that he sold by the roadside. Where he got the copper I didn't care, but the old stories he told I found fascinating. IMO he embodied a Traveller, the ones today are just con artists, thugs, and thieves.

If I were a skeptical person, I'd say that's a cynical device that is intended to bestow undeserved moderation on an outrageous statement (i.e., the claim that 'travellers are con artists, thugs and thieves')

It's a bit like people who try to soften their xenophobia by saying that resources like social housing should be reserved for the Irish poor, yet in a separate argument about social housing will bawl and squeal about Irish welfare 'spongers'.

There is almost nobody around today of the kind of man you mention, and like I said, if I were of a skeptical bent, I'd assume that's exactly why you're using him (if he exists at all) as a softener for your crass generalisation.

Bonniedog

Given that the Cash woman had dozens of convictions without serving a day, the statistics most likely under-estimate the level of criminality, but that is true of "petty crime" in general.

Redneck Reject

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Do you have a link to that?

We know that travellers are over-represented in the prisons, relative to population. It's rather a different thing to suggest that most travellers have criminal records. If you look at the overall prison statistics for Year X, you will find that prisoners are counted multiple times. If I'm being arrested every couple of weeks and being held on remand, or given sentences of one month at a time, I may appear in the prisoner statistics several times for Year X.

This is a common occurance. It's a bit like counting the passengers that pass through Dublin airport; the overall transit figure is much higher than the number of unique individuals -- again, people are counted several times.

If I were a skeptical person, I'd say that's a cynical device that is intended to bestow undeserved moderation on an outrageous statement (i.e., the claim that 'travellers are con artists, thugs and thieves')

It's a bit like people who try to soften their xenophobia by saying that resources like social housing should be reserved for the Irish poor, yet in a separate argument about social housing will bawl and squeal about Irish welfare 'spongers'.

There is almost nobody around today of the kind of man you mention, and like I said, if I were of a skeptical bent, I'd assume that's exactly why you're using him (if he exists at all) as a softener for your crass generalisation.

Your right they don't exist anymore, the man I knew died 6 years ago. So now when it comes to Travellers today, they are scamming elderly folks of their money ,i.e. driveway, roofing scams or blantly robbing them. And when they compare themselves and their struggles to native Americans in the US is laughable. They only know how to take advantage of every situation without regard to how they impact anyone else.

And they have it all down to a fine art how to manipulate the system. So defend them all you like, your not going to change my opinion of what they've come on society.

Blueshoe

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Do you have a link to that?

We know that travellers are over-represented in the prisons, relative to population. It's rather a different thing to suggest that most travellers have criminal records. If you look at the overall prison statistics for Year X, you will find that prisoners are counted multiple times. If I'm being arrested every couple of weeks and being held on remand, or given sentences of one month at a time, I may appear in the prisoner statistics several times for Year X.

This is a common occurance. It's a bit like counting the passengers that pass through Dublin airport; the overall transit figure is much higher than the number of unique individuals -- again, people are counted several times.

If I were a skeptical person, I'd say that's a cynical device that is intended to bestow undeserved moderation on an outrageous statement (i.e., the claim that 'travellers are con artists, thugs and thieves')

It's a bit like people who try to soften their xenophobia by saying that resources like social housing should be reserved for the Irish poor, yet in a separate argument about social housing will bawl and squeal about Irish welfare 'spongers'.

There is almost nobody around today of the kind of man you mention, and like I said, if I were of a skeptical bent, I'd assume that's exactly why you're using him (if he exists at all) as a softener for your crass generalisation.

I don't need a stat. We all know it

Stop moaning ffs

Blueshoe wrote: »

Yes.
Most travellers have criminal records.

Awaiting your stats for that. I’ll be reporting if you can’t back it up.

4068ac1elhodqr

pgj2015 wrote: »

landscaping

Landscaping? Without any horticultural qualifications or education.
Would a pick axe into a water mains be covered by his liability ins?

Had a guy call at the door once (jeans, runners and baggy jumper, no work boots), offering to 'cut a hedge' for an unspecified fee.

Q. Where's your clothes and tools A. Ah, in the van
Q. Where's your van? A. Ah around the corner.
Q. Do you know what 'type' of hedge that is? A. Ah, A 'hedge' hedge?
Q. Where are you from A. Names a town at least 30km away.
Q. Is that not a long way to come to 'cut a hedge' A. Shrug of shoulders
Q. Would you ever *&$ away off. A. (Unheard, due to sound of door slam).

whisky_galore

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Awaiting your stats for that. I’ll be reporting if you can’t back it up.

Go on, run in and tell teacher.

youzack

Most of the refugees flooding into Europe are not really refugees.
Where are the women?
Just seems to be men
Would you even call them men, fleeing and leaving the women and children behind, not very manly if you ask me

Stephen15

youzack wrote: »

Most of the refugees flooding into Europe are not really refugees.
Where are the women?
Just seems to be men
Would you even call them men, fleeing and leaving the women and children behind, not very manly if you ask me

Exactly but it's racist to have a problem with it

Blueshoe

Blueshoe wrote: »

I don't need a stat.

I do.

You made a fairly huge claim, you should be able to support it with evidence.

pgj2015

Chandler Spicy Panther wrote: »

Landscaping? Without any horticultural qualifications or education.
Would a pick axe into a water mains be covered by his liability ins?

Had a guy call at the door once (jeans, runners and baggy jumper, no work boots), offering to 'cut a hedge' for an unspecified fee.

Q. Where's your clothes and tools A. Ah, in the van
Q. Where's your van? A. Ah around the corner.
Q. Do you know what 'type' of hedge that is? A. Ah, A 'hedge' hedge?
Q. Where are you from A. Names a town at least 30km away.
Q. Is that not a long way to come to 'cut a hedge' A. Shrug of shoulders
Q. Would you ever *&$ away off. A. (Unheard, due to sound of door slam).

I suppose gardening might be more what i meant, cutting grass, planting tress etc its not rocket science.

youzack

If i turned up at work Monday morning dressed like Napoleon, speaking with a French accent, and insisted that i was Napoleon and everyone treat me as if i really am Napoleon, i dare say i would be in John of God's mental hospital by lunch time.
Now on the other hand if i put on a frock, wig and a bit of lipstick and declared i was no longer a man, and everyone was to treat me as a woman, that would be perfectly normal in todays PC world.......................... makes you think, don't it?

4068ac1elhodqr

pgj2015 wrote: »

I suppose gardening might be more suitable, cutting grass, planting trees etc its not rocket science.

If you call demanding 350 from pensioners for a half-arsed job of playing about in a hedge, look around the rear shed (research) and having a smoke.


Witnessed a couple of them up on a neighbours roof once, 2mins of powerhosing, then (hose still running) sit down on roof, jacket hood up over head and a couple of cigs for 10mins (after his partner shouted up "cover your head").

suicide_circus

youzack wrote: »

Most of the refugees flooding into Europe are not really refugees.
Where are the women?
Just seems to be men
Would you even call them men, fleeing and leaving the women and children behind, not very manly if you ask me

most news sources have given up the pretence of calling them refugees and call them migrants, which is what the vast majority of them always were - young single male economic migrants.

kowloon

Red Dead Redemption 2 will not be coming to Windows.

OMM 0000

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I do.

You made a fairly huge claim, you should be able to support it with evidence.

In fairness he doesn't know you so he probably doesn't care what you do and do not want.

He's under no obligation to get stats because you want them. It's a bit weird to demand them. This is boards, not a PhD.

I have no idea if most travellers have a criminal record, but I would absolutely believe they have a higher proportion of criminals compared to the average population.

boombang

I wonder would we get stats published on what proportion of both populations have criminal records? I did a quick Google last night in an attempt to either prove it disprove the claim. All I could find was evidence of the disproportionate amount of the prison population made up by travellers, which is not the same thing as saying most have criminal records.

I strongly believe that we're in a PC age where such facts will be suppressed from publication, therefore making it harder to have an objective debate. I believe this is counter productive, as people fall back on prejudices in the absence of evidence. I try not to, but I'm sure I do.

OMM 0000

Well I think the fair position to take is "there is a problem with criminality in the traveler community", certainly compared to the non-traveler community.

And is it surprising? They have little to no education, no stake in society, a culture which involves making money in shady and illegal ways, a lot of inbreeding, and in general are outside the system almost all of us operate under.

As I said in a previous post, my own experience with travellers has been 100% negative, so I can understand why people have an issue with them.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Woke Hogan wrote: »

There is a huge element of criminality within the Traveller Community, yes, but I think too many settled people lay the sole responsibility upon the travellers to integrate without making any effort to assist in that integration themselves.

Don't believe me? How many employers here would be willing to hire a traveller, even if their record was squeaky clean? I'm sure someone will come in mouthing off in an effort to show me up but let's be honest here, very very few employers actually would.

I’ve allowed travellers into my business giving them the benefit of the doubt, only for both stock and till to be robbed. They’ll make huge appointments then most of the time don’t bother showing up, wasting my time and costing me money. I’ve given the benefit of the doubt enough to learn that now you can’t leave them unsupervised for a moment and you must take payment in full before accepting an appointment.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Well I think the fair position to take is "there is a problem with criminality in the traveler community", certainly compared to the non-traveler community.

And is it surprising? They have little to no education, no stake in society, a culture which involves making money in shady and illegal ways, a lot of inbreeding, and in general are outside the system almost all of us operate under.

As I said in a previous post, my own experience with travellers has been 100% negative, so I can understand why people have an issue with them.

They have the same opportunity at education as the rest of the population, but place little importance on school or learning. The traveller girls in my year in school were actually very sound and really lovely but they weren’t supposed to be friends with “country people” thought everyone going to discos were sluts and would have been disowned if they ever married into a non traveling family.

Mad_maxx

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

So it’s only travelers have criminal records and more than the settled community in tallaght or limerick or Belfast?

Are you really sure about that

Is that a serious question?

InTheShadows

youzack wrote: »

Most of the refugees flooding into Europe are not really refugees.
Where are the women?
Just seems to be men
Would you even call them men, fleeing and leaving the women and children behind, not very manly if you ask me

That's how the liberals shut you down. Shout racist whenever presented with facts. I was talking to a German couple on my camping trip last week and they said 75% of the refugees that entered Germany these last few years are men.

coffee_cake

Willie Whispering Copperhead wrote: »

They have the same opportunity at education as the rest of the population, but place little importance on school or learning. The traveller girls in my year in school were actually very sound and really lovely but they weren’t supposed to be friends with “country people” thought everyone going to discos were sluts and would have been disowned if they ever married into a non traveling family.

Based on some documentaries i do feel sorry for the girls, it seems very difficult even if they do have the determination to learn. And seem very restricted in what they can do

machiavellianme

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Travellers don't want to integrate, they actively sought to be recognised as an ethnic minority.

They don't? Well why did they steal two gates from my land and break down my shed door if they don't want to mix with me and my belongings?

Wanderer78

The majority of wealth created in developing countries, ends up in developed countries