The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022656#Comment_122022656

the problem of course with your proposal is that’s it’s not just Dublin who we can argue are or have been uniquely advantaged. Many counties have benefitted from a range of both natural and manufactured advantages. It’s a bit like Real Madrid in soccer hankering after the good old days when they held all the cards. As has been demonstrated amply throughout this thread (and no one has managed to disprove) the problem of imbalance is far bigger than Dublin and would require the GAA to look at far more than just a solution focused on Dublin. As I’ve shown, a solution that entwines Kerry, Dublin and a few others may be the most elegant way to help other counties while breaking with generations of imbalance. It would also be logistically quite easy and would remove the prohibitive costs and negative downsides to other proposals that many posters have so eloquently and compellingly argued

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022401#Comment_122022401

That's gonna be your average team in Leinster while Dublin still compete. Young lads. Once they finish college they'll move on with their lives. No point giving it away for a competition where the association you play for wanted Dublin to dominate.

As the poster above said imagine a Louth v Offaly final? I'd go myself as a neutral. And it would be incredibly competitive. If you remove Dublin and the GAA give preferencial funding to all Leinster counties except Meath and Kildare the province will stay ultra competitive forever. You already have Wicklow a minnow only losing to Kildare by a point. Fund those boys and don't over invest in Kildare I guarantee Wicklow would start beating the best and reaching finals.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022279#Comment_122022279

Yes Dublin North or South would be a more achievable goal to reach and Dublin North V South would be a 50/50 derby but the dubs don't want it. Personally I hope the GAA suffers more for their disgraceful funding model. I personally want to see them win 10 in a row all Irelands. Everyone deserves to suffer not just Leinster counties.

Downlinz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023002#Comment_122023002

The dubs clearly didn't want what was on offer yesterday either since they didn't show up, what exactly do the dubs want at this stage?

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023350#Comment_122023350

The dubs just want to time travel to an all Ireland semi or final now but the championship feels boring if it only gets going for your last game or 2. Meath, Dublin and Kildare if they reached a final in the 80's, 90's, 00's would have had an exciting run through Leinster or the backdoor until the reached the final. It felt special. Now some years Dublin don't even get tested until the final. Zzzzzzzz. As a former die hard I just turned to other sports including hurling.

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023350#Comment_122023350

Why would you say that. Busy weekend of sport and just after Easter will mean many are stretched financially. That plus an expectation that Dublin should go deeper in the championship would mean many may be thinking they can go to games later in the Leinster championship. Not really fair either to expect Dublin fans to fill Croker by themselves, where were all the Meath fans, from a county heading towards a quarter of a million people in size?

Wouldn’t be a first either tbh, Kerry fans would be well known for waiting till later in the year to show up to matches

Downlinz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023419#Comment_122023419

Fans from other counties gave up on the Leinster championship a long time ago since they don't view it as a fair contest and believe their team has zero chance of winning it so I understand why Meath and fans from other counties wouldn't attend but if Dublin fans are also getting bored of it then what's the points of it?

Who's it for when one team expects to win Leinster so the fans stay away and all the other teams believe they can't win it so ignore it? It's a failed competition at this stage that seemingly nobody wants.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023350#Comment_122023350

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, Kerry people only went to All-Ireland semi-finals and finals. They took their unfair advantages for granted.

Dublin people aren't at that stage yet, still get the biggest crowds.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022656#Comment_122022656

It would be logistically very difficult, would cause huge resentment, and would completely undermine the club structure in Dublin. It actually couldnt work without the support of Dublin clubs, which wont happen.

To go back to my earlier point, people calling for Dublin to be split, when it patently wont be split - these people arent actually taking the problem seriously. They are not looking for actual solutions.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023406#Comment_122023406

Qualify that, as a former die hard back in a time when Meath were winning…..

The likes of Monaghan, Derry, Tyrone, Mayo, Kerry have no shortage of football fans willing to come to games in Croke Park.

If Meath were back contending, you'd be back watching.

Meath have had a serious decline, irrespective of what Dublin are doing. Its 20 years since a Meath club has made a Leinster club final.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024085#Comment_122024085

Meath haven't won an all Ireland since 1999. I'd no problem following them for years after that and would still do but when the organisation shows such ridiculous bias towards the most successful county there's really no point. My enjoyment levels of the Leinster championship were 10/10 even though Meath would win it maybe once a decade after 1999. Out of principle I won't go.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024072#Comment_122024072

Nonsense. How would undermine any club, except that they would only play clubs in their new county? Some of the clubs should be split too.

the issue is people pretending that the solution is somehow a problem.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024312#Comment_122024312

Meath can complain about unfair advantages when Meath do the best Meath can do and still come up short. Meath are miles off being the county they could be. And most worryingly, most of their famous traits are dead too. It's poor form when Meath are complaing about unfair advantages, they were the team who never made excuses, got on with it and got stuck in. Died on the field, run through walls and other teams for the cause, never lay down and overcame all odds with a cast iron will and belief.

Now they are running around with excuses and bowing down with a whimper every time. The attitde of their fans is worse. The whole thing has gone wrong in Meath, from structures, to the county board to players who are afraid. Theres a poison in Meath football, and no on seems able to address the root cause to even start putting it right. It's depressing to watch really

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022707#Comment_122022707

We can absolutely say that Dublin alone are not only uniquely advantaged but have a unique combination, scale and duration of advantages in population, funding, playing at home etc. No other county even comes close on any one of those metrics individually, never mind taking them all together. So the imbalance is Dublin alone. Minor discrepancies in population can be tolerated but not of the likes Dublin enjoy- the unfair status quo has gone on far too long now.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024072#Comment_122024072

It'd be logistically quite easy. We've established for instance that stadiums can be shared and no new facilities would be required- there are sufficient ones already in Dublin. It wouldn't undermine the club structure at all, it'd enhance it if anything. It's far too dangerous and unfair for Gaelic games for Dublin not to be split.

How do you propose dealing with Dublin's unfair advantages in population, funding and playing at home then?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024605#Comment_122024605

Totally agree on the last sentence. One thing with people disputing the need for a split is they never have any proposals for how to deal with Dublin's unfair advantages. Just because it is the status quo does not mean it can in any way be justified. Leaving Dublin as a single team is far, far more dangerous for Gaelic games than splitting them.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024666#Comment_122024666

But it's not poor form for Meath to be complaining about unfair advantages. Their complaints have 100% merit. Dublin are indeed unfairly advantaged and have been for decades. It's perfectly natural that people would be annoyed about that. If we wanted Meath to become competitive again, the first thing we'd have to do is level the playing field so it's a fair competition. And the way to do that is by splitting Dublin.

keeponhurling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025408#Comment_122025408

Exactly. Maybe Meath can do more internally to develop footballers.

But taking away all hope does not help football in any county.

Charles Babbage

"Leaving Dublin as a single team is far, far more dangerous for Gaelic games than splitting them. "

That's it. The rest is just detail.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025408#Comment_122025408

Thing is, they are not complaining like you are. O'Rourke was on the tv after the game saying that players like McCarthy, Fenton, Kilkenny and O'Callaghan are the best to have played the game.

If you were picking an all-time greatest team now, those four along with Cluxton would be knocking the Kerry lads off the team. In a team of the last 50 years, only John O'Keefe, Jack O'Shea and Pat Spillane would make the team. The rest would be mostly Dublin.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025706#Comment_122025706

Nobody is disputing that Dublin have some great players. We've said that they have repeatedly. Whether they have great players or not has no bearing on whether Dublin are unfairly advantaged over everyone else.

In fact, some of the reasons Dublin can field such great players is because of their unique unfair advantages- for instance, Dublin's population advantage gives them with a higher absolute number of top-tier players within the county. The Games Development funding that Dublin alone were favoured in helped to improve those players as they grew up, in a way that would not have been possible in other counties. Their ongoing funding advantage that Dublin have over everyone else helps to maintain them at the top of their game. And so on.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024666#Comment_122024666

Good. The GAA deserves to suffer for being so biased towards the most dominant team in Leinster. I hope the gap grows dramatically. Trying harder to just close the gap a little plays into their hands. I hope Dublin win 30 Leinster's in a row until they eventually move Dublin out or just cease the competition.

Galway don't compete in Connaught hurling so there is precedent.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025395#Comment_122025395

My solution would be to take Dublin out of Leinster.

As regards 'unfair advantages' - that exists throughout the game.

If you start targetting Dublin then where do you stop.

Should Leitrim population 35,000 have to compete with Galway population 260,000?

Should Fermanagh 53'000 have to compete with Derry 280,000?

Why does this only apply to Dublin.

The all-Ireland is competitive at the latter stages and has been throughout Dublins period of dominance. Of their all Ireland final wins, most of them were one score games and two were drawn.

If Kerry, Derry, Galway, Mayo or Tyrone come up against Dublin in a semi final or final, I'd expect it to be a decent contest.

I still dont buy for one minute that a split is going to be easy. For example, who are the coaching panels - if the clubs dont want it in the first place.

Why not join Meath and Kildare together - that would be just as 'easy' as what you are suggesting. Sure just pick the best of the two panels.

Because its those counties that have the problem here, not Dublin.

By all means, financially even things up - but being honest, I dont think the Meath county football team is short of resources.

Sure take Dublin out of Croke Park. Make them play in Navan. But Meath were offerred that and didnt take it.

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025383#Comment_122025383

we can absolutely say that if we’re Kerry fans looking to protect our place on the roll of honour- the rest of us not so much

telling you’re focusing on populations again when you’re offered a solution that levels out everything else but does the same for your team. The one natural advantage that’s always existed for Dublin, the one that rarely made much difference. The one that is utterly offset by the issues Dublin faces that were so eloquently detailed by other posters and which you utterly failed to address and then tried to spoof your way through. Maybe you’d be up for restricting access time to pitches for other teams when you’re trying to fix football… will you hell

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025395#Comment_122025395

Stadiums can be shared? Isn’t a big part of your issue the sharing of one particular stadium at the behest of other teams in Leinster?

you really couldn’t make this tripe up….

And yet when a solution is offered that addresses the issues you don’t want to know because your beloved Kerry would also see their unfair advantages cut back

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025490#Comment_122025490

How’s that working out in hurling

Particularly dark humour when a particular poster in the early days of this thread was predicting a hurling Armageddon due to Dublin.

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025408#Comment_122025408

so how would that make them competitive against say Kerry, with the long list of long standing unfair advantages Kerry benefit from

the back door gives us a glimpse of where these teams are at. Kerry putting 7 goals past Kildare a few years back seems to tell us Dublin might not be the problem

laketreeroger

Why aren’t Dublin doing it with hurling?

laketreeroger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025866#Comment_122025866

why does it not help with hurling?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026139#Comment_122026139

That solution has already been discussed here and rejected unfortunately- it does nothing to address Dublin's unfair advantages in population, funding and playing at home. The damage from these unfair advantages stretches far beyond Leinster (although the biggest impact is felt there).

The issue is the scale, nature, combination and duration of these advantages. Yes, there are population differences between other counties but the gaps in absolute numbers for Dublin dwarf everyone else- For instance, the gap between Dublin and Cork is larger than the gap between Cork and Leitrim. So Dublin is such a statistical outlier, so many standard deviations away from the average that the GAA needs to take special measures for their unique circumstances. So the gaps between the counties you mentioned are negligible when compared with Dublin.

Same for funding- there are differences between counties, but nothing on the scale of the differences that Dublin has. And Meath are absolutely short on resources when compared to Dublin, as all counties are. Even though the All-Ireland is more competitive than Leinster, it's still not a fair competition, the advantages for Dublin exist there too and harm all counties. It's not success that is the problem- it's success that comes from an unfairly advantaged position, as Dublin's has.

Voluntary amalgamations can be offered but Dublin should be split on a mandatory basis- it's too dangerous for the future of Gaelic games not to do it.