The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Iscreamkone

dunnerc wrote: »

One giant ? :rolleyes:

Kerry : 81 Munster Titles - 37 All Ireland Titles

Dublin :59 Leinster Titles - 30 All Ireland Titles

You are correct. However, this is ancient history.
Dublin are now at a level that smaller counties can't match them off the field and the population disparity means that they can't be matched for producing numbers of quality athletes.

A blind man can see where this is going.

As an aside - there are a lot of inter-county standard players in Dublin who are prevented from playing inter-county because there is only 15 places available for 1.5 million people.

dunnerc

Enquiring wrote: »

Kerry didn't have a plan created and funded to the tune of millions for them. If they did, calls for them to be split would be growing also.

Whats that got to do with one giant ? :rolleyes:

Strumms

Enquiring wrote: »

Unfortunately, Dublin GAA agreed to accept the millions granted to them. They knew that it would lead to this. They followed the plan drawn up for them apart from the splitting part. It's not a choice, for Gaelic games to prosper the split has to happen. There is no way around it. The benefits for everyone have already been outlined.

Nope, sorry, not happening

You can say a sea lion will be refereeing the senior football final, repeating it wont make it true... :eek:

It’s an inter County Championship, not intra area or location championship...

Iscreamkone

Kerry has a population that is 10% of Dublin's. Kerry might be one of the few who could beat Dublin, but could they go toe to toe over a 10 year period? Not a chance.
Cork with a population of 33% of Dublin's might be the best bet (if they ever get organised).

Strumms

Iscreamkone wrote: »

You are correct. However, this is ancient history.
Dublin are now at a level that smaller counties can't match them off the field and the population disparity means that they can't be matched for producing numbers of quality athletes.

A blind man can see where this is going.

As an aside - there are a lot of inter-county standard players in Dublin who are prevented from playing inter-county because there is only 15 places available for 1.5 million people.

In 1985, there were around 1 million people and still 15 places.

543000 people live in cork county now , still only 15 places.

Sure why not split Cork, give more people a chance

Enquiring

dunnerc wrote: »

Whats that got to do with one giant ? :rolleyes:

I'm just explaining to you why the split must happen.

Enquiring

Strumms wrote: »

Nope, sorry, not happening

You can say a sea lion will be refereeing the senior football final, repeating it wont make it true... :eek:

It’s an inter County Championship, not intra area or location championship...

As you pointed out before. It's up to those interested in fair play and the health of our games need to stand up for ourselves and demand this. Protests etc may need to happen. The future of our games depend on completely changing the landscape of Gaelic games. Splitting Dublin is only one part of it. Without massive change, football and hurling will continue to decline in many counties.

Iscreamkone

Strumms wrote: »

In 1985, there were around 1 million people and still 15 places.

543000 people live in cork county now , still only 15 places.

Sure why not split Cork, give more people a chance

If one single Dail constituency's population got too big then the lines would be redrawn. By not redrawing the lines re Dublin, the GAA are gerrymandering. Not a term that the GAA would like to be accused of, I'd imagine?

dunnerc

Iscreamkone wrote: »

You are correct. However, this is ancient history.
Dublin are now at a level that smaller counties can't match them off the field and the population disparity means that they can't be matched for producing numbers of quality athletes.

A blind man can see where this is going.

As an aside - there are a lot of inter-county standard players in Dublin who are prevented from playing inter-county because there is only 15 places available for 1.5 million people.

Ancient history ? Really ! rolleyes:
All in the last 7 Years

2019 Dublin 1-16 0-19 Kerry
2017 Dublin 1-17 1-16 Mayo
2016 Dublin 2-09 0-15 Mayo
2016 Dublin 1-15 1-14 Mayo
2015 Dublin 0-12 0-09 Kerry
2014 Dublin 0-17 3-14 Donegal

The above Counties gave Dublin plenty of trouble

Dublin always had a population advantage

The population of Dublin is 1,242,000 million

Enquiring

Strumms wrote: »

In 1985, there were around 1 million people and still 15 places.

543000 people live in cork county now , still only 15 places.

Sure why not split Cork, give more people a chance

Have Cork received millions of euros more than anyone else for player development? Have they received half of what Dublin received even? Not even close. Cork had 6 coaches to look after more clubs in a far wider geographical area than Dublin.

When you look at it like that, it's very clear as to why the calls for Dublin to be split is justified but calls to split Cork are just deflectionary tactics.

Strumms

Enquiring wrote: »

As you pointed out before. It's up to those interested in fair play and the health of our games need to stand up for ourselves and demand this. Protests etc may need to happen. The future of our games depend on completely changing the landscape of Gaelic games. Splitting Dublin is only one part of it. Without massive change, football and hurling will continue to decline in many counties.

I simply never pointed out splits .. if the sport is decline in x county, they need to stand up, man up, organize themselves and not worry about what’s going on in other counties unless it’s as a template as how they must strive and work to improve... as sports people, administrators and indeed people...

Enquiring

Iscreamkone wrote: »

If one single Dail constituency's population got too big then the lines would be redrawn. By not redrawing the lines re Dublin, the GAA are gerrymandering. Not a term that the GAA would like to be accused of, I'd imagine?

The lines are already redrawn. The 4 counties in Dublin already exist.

dunnerc

Enquiring wrote: »

I'm just explaining to you why the split must happen.

Again you can say it as many times as you want
Dublin will not agree to a split

SheepsClothing

Iscreamkone wrote: »

You are correct. However, this is ancient history.
Dublin are now at a level that smaller counties can't match them off the field and the population disparity means that they can't be matched for producing numbers of quality athletes.

A blind man can see where this is going.

As an aside - there are a lot of inter-county standard players in Dublin who are prevented from playing inter-county because there is only 15 places available for 1.5 million people.

Even economically, keeping Dublin as a single province sized team, doesn't make sense anymore. We have reached the point where a Leinster final between Dublin City and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown would draw a much larger crowd than a Dublin - Meath final.

dunnerc

Enquiring wrote: »

The lines are already redrawn. The 4 counties in Dublin already exist.

Dublin GAA is one County only

SheepsClothing

Strumms wrote: »

Nope, sorry, not happening

You can say a sea lion will be refereeing the senior football final, repeating it wont make it true... :eek:

It’s an inter County Championship, not intra area or location championship...

I didn't know London and New York were counties. Good to learn something new.

dunnerc

SheepsClothing wrote: »

Even economically, keeping Dublin as a single province sized team, doesn't make sense anymore. We have reached the point where a Leinster final between Dublin City and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown would draw a much larger crowd than a Dublin - Meath final.

I think not , Dublin GAA is one County only

blanch152

Enquiring wrote: »

It's not just the opinion of one Dublin county board employee, it's the general consensus within Dublin GAA. The coaches do go to primary and secondary schools for player recruitment but their main role is within the clubs they are hired by. The clubs aren't paying half the coaches wages to become PE teachers.

The coaches are directed by their employers. This could involve coaching various teams, coaching other coaches, cúl camps etc but they also target elite development. It's a major part of their job as that's what their employers want, an increase in standards for their senior teams which will and has come from superior talent development systems.

Well, I am sorry, this post just exposes your lack of knowledge on the issue.

The GDOs don't just go to primary and secondary schools for player recruitment - nearly all of their work is in primary and secondary schools.

Elite player development is not part of their remit.

Where you are getting confused is with what those GDOs do as part of their job and separately as part of their voluntary time. The GAA in Dublin is driven forward nearly entirely by the work of volunteers. So if a GDO in a school helps out in his local club on a Tuesday night training the U-21s, that isn't the GAA or anyone else paying for him to do that, that is him volunteering. He would have been doing that whether he was a GDO or a teacher or a Garda.

dunnerc

SheepsClothing wrote: »

I didn't know London and New York were counties. Good to learn something new.

Well done you

Enquiring

Strumms wrote: »

I simply never pointed out splits .. if the sport is decline in x county, they need to stand up, man up, organize themselves and not worry about what’s going on in other counties unless it’s as a template as how they must strive and work to improve... as sports people, administrators and indeed people...

Yes, all counties should demand fair funding as one of the key elements of this movement. Splitting Dublin is central to it as well though. Without that, we would be allowing one county compete on a professional basis. It would be contrary to the ideals of fair play.

Enquiring

dunnerc wrote: »

Again you can say it as many times as you want
Dublin will not agree to a split

They'll have to. There's no other option.

dunnerc

Enquiring wrote: »

They'll have to. There's no other option.

No harm in dreaming

Enquiring

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, I am sorry, this post just exposes your lack of knowledge on the issue.

The GDOs don't just go to primary and secondary schools for player recruitment - nearly all of their work is in primary and secondary schools.

Elite player development is not part of their remit.

Where you are getting confused is with what those GDOs do as part of their job and separately as part of their voluntary time. The GAA in Dublin is driven forward nearly entirely by the work of volunteers. So if a GDO in a school helps out in his local club on a Tuesday night training the U-21s, that isn't the GAA or anyone else paying for him to do that, that is him volunteering. He would have been doing that whether he was a GDO or a teacher or a Garda.

So you are claiming that clubs in Dublin are paying for glorified PE teachers? This goes against statements from senior Dublin county board members. They state clearly that the coaches work under the direction of the clubs who hire them. Should we believe the Dublin county board members or a poster who wants to brush two decades of funding disparity under the carpet?

Iscreamkone

Strumms wrote: »

I simply never pointed out splits .. if the sport is decline in x county, they need to stand up, man up, organize themselves and not worry about what’s going on in other counties unless it’s as a template as how they must strive and work to improve... as sports people, administrators and indeed people...

When you say man up - I would say that some of the smaller counties are doing very well. Kerry with only 10% of Dublin's population create more quality players per 100,000 pop than Dublin. However, Kerry will find it hard to multiply their output further.

There will always be a gap because the population differences are so big. And the difference between urban and rural populations will only get bigger with time.

dunnerc

Iscreamkone wrote: »

When you say man up - I would say that some of the smaller counties are doing very well. Kerry with only 10% of Dublin's population create more quality players per 100,000 pop than Dublin. However, Kerry will find it hard to multiply their output further.

There will always be a gap because the population differences are so big. And the difference between urban and rural populations will only get bigger with time.

We could merge Cork and Kerry

blanch152

Enquiring wrote: »

So you are claiming that clubs in Dublin are paying for glorified PE teachers? This goes against statements from senior Dublin county board members. They state clearly that the coaches work under the direction of the clubs who hire them. Should we believe the Dublin county board members or a poster who wants to brush two decades of funding disparity under the carpet?

I have seen the work done in special schools by GDOs, calling them glorified PE teachers, reducing them to trainers of the elite are huge insults to their work.

The majority of kids coached by GDOs won't end up in GAA clubs, many GDOs will never see a kid coached by them reach a county team, that is the reality, because their work is about mass participation, not about building a better senior team.

I am leaving it there.

Enquiring

blanch152 wrote: »

I have seen the work done in special schools by GDOs, calling them glorified PE teachers, reducing them to trainers of the elite are huge insults to their work.

The majority of kids coached by GDOs won't end up in GAA clubs, many GDOs will never see a kid coached by them reach a county team, that is the reality, because their work is about mass participation, not about building a better senior team.

I am leaving it there.

You're not arguing against me here. You're arguing against Dublin county board members including the Strategic development officer. They've stated what the gdo's do and the benefits achieved for development squads.

The gdo's do go to primary and secondary schools but their main task is improving standards within their club. That's the bottom line.

ooter

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Dublin GAA is now super organised so the smaller counties can't get an advantage by being more organised than them - there will always be a gap.

Smaller counties beat dublin in senior hurling on a regular basis, there will always be a gap there.

blanch152

Enquiring wrote: »

You're not arguing against me here. You're arguing against Dublin county board members including the Strategic development officer. They've stated what the gdo's do and the benefits achieved for development squads.

The gdo's do go to primary and secondary schools but their main task is improving standards within their club. That's the bottom line.

I am talking about the reality on the ground, not what somebody higher up is reputed to have said.

Enquiring

blanch152 wrote: »

I am talking about the reality on the ground, not what somebody higher up is reputed to have said.

Oh dear, you're doubling down on this. You do know the role of the Strategic development officer? It's his job to oversee all of this, his job to know exactly where the development money is going and the work done under the games development banner. It's literally his exact job but you're claiming to know better than him. He states that the coaches role is under the direction of the clubs. His name is Kevin O'Shaughnessy and here are some direct quotes: "The coaches work very much in tune with what the particular club wants." And on their qualifications: "It is a high standard that allows them to train the trainers in each club to a high quality."

That's not enough for you? How about former coaching and games officer for Dublin GAA; Ger O'Connor: "The coaches don't just concentrate on hurling or football. They organise everything within a club and camogie and ladies football get the benefit too."

Still not enough? You want someone on the ground right? How about someone who's been there throughout this whole operation? Long serving Dublin GAA GPO Pauric McDonald had this to say on his observation of Dublin development squads from when he set out 2 decades ago to the current time: "I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching. I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin."

All of this goes against your claim that it's all about juvenile participation. Do you have the contact details of the Dublin county board so you can correct them on this?