The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

SheepsClothing

ShyMets wrote: »

Fully agree. Using County boundaries makes zero sense. You would base it on population size. Basically you need x number of people in a geographically area to maintain a competitive team.

This would entail splits and amalgamations. But while some posters are happy to split Dublin, they seem reluctant to countenance amalgamations.

That does make me wonder

It shouldn't be that complicated. Splits are by their nature, less alienating than amalgamations. Somebody who was born and raised in the Fingal County Council area has been affiliated and thought of themselves as part of that area for much of/all of their life.

Somebody born and raised in Monaghan, has never affiliated themselves with being from Cavan, in fact they consider Cavan their rival. If suddenly, the Mavan senior football team is formed, that Monaghan supporter is going to have much harder time supporting the Mavan team, than the former Dublin supporter will have supporting Fingal.

There's also the fact that splitting Dublin is the path of least resistance to bringing about some semblance of competition. Splitting Dublin and disfranchising one counties support(I personally think it would drive support) for the benefit of the other 31, is easier than disenfranchising the other 31 counties in order to suit the one runaway train county.

Enquiring

Lost Ormond wrote: »

We dont because finances alone do not make the best teams. Its all about best practices and money isnt necessarily needed for that to occur.

We know it wasn't just the money, the detailed plan drawn up first followed by the money was key. The plan outlined key target areas, it outlined key appointments that needed to be made to oversee everything, obviously it made it clear the number of coaches needed to be increased hugely and the finance needed to support all of these new employees. It was a very detailed plan and a very good plan. It wouldn't have worked without the backing of huge finance from taxpayers and the GAA though.

Lost Ormond

SheepsClothing wrote: »

It shouldn't be that complicated. Splits are by their nature, less alienating than amalgamations. Somebody who was born and raised in the Fingal County Council area has been affiliated and thought of themselves as part of that area for much of/all of their life.

Somebody born and raised in Monaghan, has never affiliated themselves with being from Cavan, in fact they consider Cavan their rival. If suddenly, the Mavan senior football team is formed, that Monaghan supporter is going to have much harder time supporting the Mavan team, than the former Dublin supporter will have supporting Fingal.

There's also the fact that splitting Dublin is the path of least resistance to bringing about some semblance of competition. Splitting Dublin and disfranchising one counties support(I personally think it would drive support) for the benefit of the other 31, is easier than disenfranchising the other 31 counties in order to suit the one runaway train county.

But when would most in Fingal have ever really supported teams representing a Fingal team? When would they have supported and backed Fingal.
Splitting Dublin will do little to help the vast majority of counties and their fans and chances of success.
Someone born in North Tipp is in North Munster but that doesnt at all mean they will have an affiliation towards a North Munster team.

Iscreamkone

Let's give €100 million to Leitrim and see how they get on with it.
It's all about the population

ShyMets

Enquiring wrote: »

I get the frustration, I really do. There is no justification for the funding disparity and we all know what it has led to. This is not an easy pill to swallow. It would be for a supporter of any county. It happened though, the Dublin county board accepted the money and they knew the day would come where the split had to happen.

I've said it before but the sllit is being looked at from a negative point of view. This needs to change. It's a positive development for everyone, especially those in Dublin.

Right. So you've once again ignored the point I was making. Which is County boundaries make no sense. The current structure needs to be torn up. If we want a competitive game a Senior level base it on population size. Which would entail splits and amalgamations.

Simply splitting Dublin does very little for the majority of teams. And to quote your good self " you know this. I know this. We all know this".

Enquiring

SheepsClothing wrote: »

So what you are saying is, driving massive number of kids and their parents into playing and volunteering in Dublin GAA has little to no benefit to the senior county team?

That's a wild claim.

The claims they make are supported by statements supplied by...............themselves! It goes against testimony from senior Dublin county board officials.

Enquiring

Lost Ormond wrote: »

But when would most in Fingal have ever really supported teams representing a Fingal team? When would they have supported and backed Fingal.
Splitting Dublin will do little to help the vast majority of counties and their fans and chances of success.
Someone born in North Tipp is in North Munster but that doesnt at all mean they will have an affiliation towards a North Munster team.

It may be a little tricky for the first year but that will soon pass. When parents see their kids get an opportunity to represent their area at inter county level, the support will be instant. More clubs will have representatives at inter county level. It will really boost GAA in areas neglected by Dublin GAA. Local rivalries will bloom. Big crowds will attend these games. Plus, the county boundaries are already drawn. The 4 counties are ready to go!

Enquiring

ShyMets wrote: »

Right. So you've once again ignored the point I was making. Which is County boundaries make no sense. The current structure needs to be torn up. If we want a competitive game a Senior level base it on population size. Which would entail splits and amalgamations.

Simply splitting Dublin does very little for the majority of teams. And to quote your good self " you know this. I know this. We all know this".

You're just talking about football here. 22 counties have won provincial championships since the 90's. Directly prior to the Dublin funding taking effect, 5 other counties won Leinster championships. Last year we saw Cavan and Tipperary win provincial titles. Monaghan with a very small population have been competing at the top level. There is nothing wrong with senior football apart from one county receiving special treatment and being artificially placed at the top of the tree.

Yes, other counties need funding. That has to be done but first Dublin must be split.

Lost Ormond

ShyMets wrote: »

Right. So you've once again ignored the point I was making. Which is County boundaries make no sense. The current structure needs to be torn up. If we want a competitive game a Senior level base it on population size. Which would entail splits and amalgamations.

Simply splitting Dublin does very little for the majority of teams. And to quote your good self " you know this. I know this. We all know this".

County Boundaries may perfect sense and tie in with how the GAA is structured at club level.
In what sport are all teams split solely based on their population size?

Enquiring wrote: »

It may be a little tricky for the first year but that will soon pass. When parents see their kids get an opportunity to represent their area at inter county level, the support will be instant. More clubs will have representatives at inter county level. It will really boost GAA in areas neglected by Dublin GAA. Local rivalries will bloom. Big crowds will attend these games. Plus, the county boundaries are already drawn. The 4 counties are ready to go!

It would soon pass based on what exactly?
Look at welsh rugby and the problems theyve had with identity. Splitting teams or combining teams with extensive histories is fraught with difficulties and majority do not work successfully.

SheepsClothing

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Let's give €100 million to Leitrim and see how they get on with it.
It's all about the population

It's down to a population being exploited to it's maximum, due to an abundance of funding. Leitrim wouldn't win an all Ireland if they were funded as well as Dublin, but they would be the best Leitrim they could possibly be.

Enquiring

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Let's give €100 million to Leitrim and see how they get on with it.
It's all about the population

Leitrim won a provincial title in 1994. Are you saying minnows can't become competitive?

SheepsClothing

Lost Ormond wrote: »

County Boundaries may perfect sense and tie in with how the GAA is structured at club level.
In what sport are all teams split solely based on their population size?


It would soon pass based on what exactly?
Look at welsh rugby and the problems theyve had with identity. Splitting teams or combining teams with extensive histories is fraught with difficulties and majority do not work successfully.

The difference with Welsh rugby is, they didn't split or amalgamate, in so much as they just drew boundaries out of thin air. There are 4 existing boundaries in Dublin, with roughly similar populations. You'd even still have "The Dubs", in the form of the Dublin City team who could hold onto the sky blue jerseys.

Enquiring

Lost Ormond wrote: »

County Boundaries may perfect sense and tie in with how the GAA is structured at club level.
In what sport are all teams split solely based on their population size?


It would soon pass based on what exactly?
Look at welsh rugby and the problems theyve had with identity. Splitting teams or combining teams with extensive histories is fraught with difficulties and majority do not work successfully.

Based on what I just said. Local communities seeing more kids getting to play inter county football and that's the big thing, they will be representing their local area. There will be major rivalries between the 4 counties and with neighbouring counties. This attracts crowds. It will work.

Lost Ormond

SheepsClothing wrote: »

The difference with Welsh rugby is, they didn't split or amalgamate, in so much as they just drew boundaries out of thin air. There are 4 existing boundaries in Dublin, with roughly similar populations. You'd even still have "The Dubs", in the form of the Dublin City team who could hold onto the sky blue jerseys.

They did amalgamate though. Ospreys is an amalgamation of Neath and Swansea.
These boundaries exist but how much do people really pay attention to them/have a draw towards Fingal over South Dublin, Dublin city over Dun Laoghaire?
But jerseys alone. Why would or should the Dublin city team keep the Sky Blue jerseys over the other sides?
These sides all playing in Croke Park?
If this is to happen in the league as well? How do you address that?
Its not workable.
Can you name any sports that split teams like youre suggesting and it turned out into a success?

Enquiring

SheepsClothing wrote: »

The difference with Welsh rugby is, they didn't split or amalgamate, in so much as they just drew boundaries out of thin air. There are 4 existing boundaries in Dublin, with roughly similar populations. You'd even still have "The Dubs", in the form of the Dublin City team who could hold onto the sky blue jerseys.

It's already governed as 4 counties. It makes sense. People in Fingal are different to people in Dún Laoighaire/Rathdown. People from South Dublin are different to people in Dublin city.

The split is already there. Having 4 county boards trying to promote Gaelic games in their own area instead of one county board for 4 counties will be hugely beneficial. It will grow Gaelic games and we'll have a more open, vibrant championship. It's a win/win.

Enquiring

Lost Ormond wrote: »

They did amalgamate though. Ospreys is an amalgamation of Neath and Swansea.
These boundaries exist but how much do people really pay attention to them/have a draw towards Fingal over South Dublin, Dublin city over Dun Laoghaire?
But jerseys alone. Why would or should the Dublin city team keep the Sky Blue jerseys over the other sides?
These sides all playing in Croke Park?
If this is to happen in the league as well? How do you address that?
Its not workable.
Can you name any sports that split teams like youre suggesting and it turned out into a success?

In fairness, can you name any sport where the governing body funded one team above all others by the tune of millions? Drew up a detailed plan for them, funded it and allowed no one else access to the program.

SheepsClothing

Lost Ormond wrote: »

They did amalgamate though. Ospreys is an amalgamation of Neath and Swansea.
These boundaries exist but how much do people really pay attention to them/have a draw towards Fingal over South Dublin, Dublin city over Dun Laoghaire?
But jerseys alone. Why would or should the Dublin city team keep the Sky Blue jerseys over the other sides?
These sides all playing in Croke Park?
If this is to happen in the league as well? How do you address that?
Its not workable.
Can you name any sports that split teams like youre suggesting and it turned out into a success?

Well splits are difficult to find obvious examples of, but if you look at American sports, they have no problem moving teams here there and everywhere to great success.

As for who plays where and the logistics of the operation, I honestly don't think this a big issue. We can make a workable schedule with home and away fixtures an alternate days in the short term. Long term, I would anticipate a second stadium being built somewhere on the South Side to act as a home ground for the two teams on that side of the city.

ooter

Big crowds attending DCC/fingal/DLR/SDCC games is dreamland stuff, if all 4 of those played in the leinster championship the combined game attendance would be less than the average attendance at a dublin leinster championship game.

FromADistance

Enquiring wrote: »

You're just talking about football here. 22 counties have won provincial championships since the 90's. Directly prior to the Dublin funding taking effect, 5 other counties won Leinster championships. Last year we saw Cavan and Tipperary win provincial titles. Monaghan with a very small population have been competing at the top level. There is nothing wrong with senior football apart from one county receiving special treatment and being artificially placed at the top of the tree.

Yes, other counties need funding. That has to be done but first Dublin must be split.

Absolutely. Anyone who defends this nonsense needs to ask themselves when was the last time you seen Dublin GAA out begging for money recently? Out raffling houses or as Leitrim are doing at the moment, getting supporters out walking 50 miles to raise 50k. 50k. Dublin GAA probably turn over 50k in a week but they still put out 15 players on a football field as every other county. You won't see a Dublin panel player out trying to raise money for their county because they don't have to.

Anyone who says that money has no bearing on how a team performs is utterly deluded. Money buys professional structures, professional structures that Dublin have at the moment... a full time paid CEO, full time commercial manager, a backroom team as large as the entire panel,funded games promotion officers for each club and so on.... money allows clubs to produce a conveyor belt of talent trained and nurtured to perform. Add population in to the mix and it's an unstoppable force. Until every county is funded in the same way as Dublin, nothing will change.

ooter

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

Gael85

ooter wrote: »

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

The friends of Dublin football also have a yearly corporate gig in the Shelbourne Hotel as a fundraiser. Think it was 3k for a table.

FromADistance

ooter wrote: »

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

A link from 2015. A handy corporate gig at 3k a pop. I see.

flasher0030

ooter wrote: »

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

You're sending a link that's nearly 5.5 years old!!! Anything a bit more recent?

It wasn't great financial management to be fair. After spending the millions on the CEO, the commercial manager, the backroom team, the promotion officers, nutritionists, and everyone else who joined the gravy train, they forgot to leave a few bob aside for the central figures - the players!! tut tut.

ooter

I'm just pointing out that Dublin panel players do try to raise money for their county.
People seem to be able to throw out statements like confetti on here without having to back them up.
The same event definitely went ahead in 2017, not sure about 18 or 19.

StupidLikeAFox

ooter wrote: »

I'm just pointing out that Dublin panel players do try to raise money for their county.
People seem to be able to throw out statements like confetti on here without having to back them up.
The same event definitely went ahead in 2017, not sure about 18 or 19.

Have a look at the graphic in this article and you will see how what a pittance Dublin fundraising is compared to any other county. Sure why would they bother

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-reign-supreme-but-where-does-your-county-rank-on-the-2018-gaa-rich-list-36922874.html

ArielAtom

I think a lot of people are forgetting that sponsorship is fundraising.

JeffKenna

ArielAtom wrote: »

I think a lot of people are forgetting that sponsorship is fundraising.

A simple Google search will tell you it's not.

ArielAtom

JeffKenna wrote: »

A simple Google search will tell you it's not.

A simple google search suggest it can be, if you look at all the descriptions.

FromADistance

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Have a look at the graphic in this article and you will see how what a pittance Dublin fundraising is compared to any other county. Sure why would they bother

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-reign-supreme-but-where-does-your-county-rank-on-the-2018-gaa-rich-list-36922874.html

Exactly, why would they bother when full time Dublin GAA employee, Tomas Quinn, knocks on doors for them to get the juicy corporate sponsorship money. No 10eurs in the biscuit tin jobbies. But according to folk on this thread there's no problem. Nothing to see here.

This is the GAA, an Amateur organisation, not the bloody Premiership.

ShyMets

FromADistance wrote: »

Exactly, why would they bother when full time Dublin GAA employee, Tomas Quinn, knocks on doors for them to get the juicy corporate sponsorship money. No 10eurs in the biscuit tin jobbies. But according to folk on this thread there's no problem. Nothing to see here.

This is the GAA, an Amateur organisation, not the bloody Premiership.

So how should Dublin get sponsorship. Just sit around and hope some company approaches them