The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Festive Life wrote: »

Clubs dont need the GAA at central level to have someone go into local schools working as a coach. A rugby club i know dont have access to a paid development officer and are paying one of their young adult players who has done his coaching qualifications etc and he is going into 5/6 of the local schools that the club pulls players from.
They are using their club lotto funding to support this. Nothing stopping GAA clubs doing similar.
Every other county isnt working off limited resources. You write as if no other county is doing extensive work with school kids, developing players to a high level.

You are poorly informed on the financial capabilities of most clubs. Why do Dublin clubs still receive millions to pay for coaches? These coaches are highly qualified and they have made a huge difference to the standards of Dublin GAA. Dublin GAA employees have admitted to this.

You're using a variant of the claim that every other county just has to work harder. Very insulting claim. Talent development is a multi billion euro industry. Are you trying to claim that one county receiving extensive resources to fund their own dedicated system hasn't been a huge advantage to Dublin GAA?

Festive Life wrote: »

Am I? There is a lot of clubs running lottos and many other fundraising drives are you really sure they couldnt? Its not like they have the travel costs that many rugby clubs have for example. All senior clubs in normal seasons are paying thousands and thousands on travel to games, over nights if travelling length of country.
Im saying many other counties have to be cleverer. Im not saying and never have said that other counties are not working hard enough.

To be honest, you're showing your ignorance on the topic here. Do you have any idea of the financial situation in most clubs? As I've already asked, why are Dublin still receiving millions every year with the amount of money available to them if it's so cheap to employ full time coaches?

Why was this special fund to employ coaches only available to Dublin? Ask any club, ask any county board, the level of support Dublin got would do wonders for Gaelic games. That it was a Dublin only scheme is the issue. It won't go away. And what actions other counties have made or have not made is irrelevant to the fact that the financial disparity is a scandal. It has to be rectified.

Strumms wrote: »

Dublin don’t receive any money to pay for coaches....

Highly qualified ? Not much point in asking a coach with no football, camogie or hurling experience to coach... qualified and experienced is desired, is necessary.

Made a huge difference to Dublin ? Errr that’s the idea... of every player selected, coach, medical personnel, backroom person chosen. Or should they select based on somebody’s ability to make a ‘modest’ impact...?

Talent development is a ‘multi billion euro industry’ ? In Dublin GAA ? Do you have facts to back this up, as in numbers ? Like bugs bunny we are all ears.

Dublin have received millions upon millions of euros to pay for coaches. Far above any other county. Every other county received in and around the same amount each.

That's the massive difference it made to Dublin GAA. They've been competing in every competition with that advantage since. Not competing on a level playing field.

This is why they have won around 100 titles post funding. The only surprise is that it's only 100 titles.

Enquiring wrote: »

Dublin have received millions upon millions of euros to pay for coaches. Far above any other county. Every other county received in and around the same amount each.

That's the massive difference it made to Dublin GAA. They've been competing in every competition with that advantage since. Not competing on a level playing field.

This is why they have won around 100 titles post funding. The only surprise is that it's only 100 titles.

Can you provide a communication or evidence to prove Dublin payed millions upon millions on coaches? An actual verifiable figure ?

Why would Dublin not receive more funding though ? More clubs, more players / participants...

The same reason Cork receive more money than Leitrim, the same as why Galway receive more then Louth.... Kerry more then Laois...

More participants, more clubs, more games, more facilities...Do Dublin have an advantage? Yep , a population advantage... certainly... they are the most populous county... it’s an ‘inter county’ championship


But look at population as a driver to success....

Hurling :

Clare, Tipp, Galway, Limerick and Kilkenny are the 5 teams to have won the Liam McCarthy Cup over the last 10 years...

Two of the top ten most populous counties, so it’s not population...

Otherwise Dublin are winning the Leinster Championship, they haven’t had a sniff... if it is the ahem.. massive funding ? If it was.. Dublin are winning the Leinster and progressing in the all Ireland, they are not.... so no, money and funding is making fûck all impact... human endeavor, talent on the other hand, IS.

munster87 wrote: »

Why bother with ‘money and funding’ if it makes no impact?

Because in every county and club the sport costs money to run, to exist. At both club and inter-county level...

Administration costs, costs for kit, light, heat, insurance, maintenance, equipment - balls, nets, tractors / lawnmowers, pitch markings, flags, scoreboards, entertainment, catering, medical / physio services... cleaners etc...

Bigger counties with greater levels of participation required more assistance.

Strumms wrote: »

Can you provide a communication or evidence to prove Dublin payed millions upon millions on coaches? An actual verifiable figure ?

Why would Dublin not receive more funding though ? More clubs, more players / participants...

The same reason Cork receive more money than Leitrim, the same as why Galway receive more then Louth.... Kerry more then Laois...

More participants, more clubs, more games, more facilities...Do Dublin have an advantage? Yep , a population advantage... certainly... they are the most populous county... it’s an ‘inter county’ championship


But look at population as a driver to success....

Hurling :

Clare, Tipp, Galway, Limerick and Kilkenny are the 5 teams to have won the Liam McCarthy Cup over the last 10 years...

Two of the top ten most populous counties, so it’s not population...

Otherwise Dublin are winning the Leinster Championship, they haven’t had a sniff... if it is the ahem.. massive funding ? If it was.. Dublin are winning the Leinster and progressing in the all Ireland, they are not.... so no, money and funding is making fûck all impact... human endeavor, talent on the other hand, IS.

This is a poor effort. Basically regurgitating points that have been refuted numerous times. Cork have more clubs than Dublin for example. The playing populations are fairly similar but Cork have a far bigger land mass to cover. You would think the funding would be broadly similar? Not even close. Dublin have received many multiples of the amount Cork have received.

When you look at all other counties. There's not much if a gap. They all got enough to fund between 1 and 6 coaches. The only county out on it's own is Dublin. The results gained from this have been predictable.

blanch152 wrote: »

Nobody is ignoring previous funding disparities.

However, the issue has now become balanced.

There was a particular need in Dublin to boost Gaelic Games among juveniles and specific funding was directed towards that aim. It worked and is working. Currently, funding is more balanced - linked to population - and really those looking for more funding should be following the Dublin example and setting out the reasons for funding and the plan for spending it.

Crying over spilt milk, or funding that has now become balanced, is not healthy for anyone.

I will leave it there as I don't think that there is much more to be said.

At least you're admitting to the huge benefits gained from the funding disparity but I'm afraid it can't all just be swept under the carpet. The funding did not only lead to a huge number of titles but it also led to increased sponsorship off the back of that success. It allowed Dublin GAA to increase income streams. They spend over 2 million on wages every year, over 2 million on expenses, 1.5 million on team preparation and now spend close to 4 million on games development.

This shows that it's far from balanced. The coaching and development plan created and funded for Dublin has led to these crazy figures available to them. It just can't be let continue. This is not something that anyone would have wanted but it was clear prior to funding that Dublin needed to be split and it's certain now that it must happen.

blanch152 wrote: »

The link between increased funding for juvenile participation and increased sponsorship has not even been argued coherently let alone a substantive case been made.

The link between increased funding for juvenile participation and increased success at senior level has at least had an argument advanced, but it is far from proven, given the disparity in performance of the football and hurling teams and the tenuous nature of the argument.

Either way though, the fact that funding is no longer unbalanced means that we will never know. The departure when it comes, of Stephen Cluxton, is likely to have more effect on the success of Dublin, than any other factor.

Some of the figures that are put in the argument to you are so skewed you could call them blatant lies. 4 million spent by Dublin GAA on coaching is a lie. The average contribution to GDO/GPO is 20k. As has been stated there are approx 70 GDO/GPO, maths must not be a strong point, but my figures come out approx 1.4m. The clubs make up the shortfall. So the figure of 4m is a downright lie. Using inflated figures to try and justify an argument is really silly and shows the level some will manipulate figures to further their poorly constructed point.

Enquiring wrote: »

This is a poor effort. Basically regurgitating points that have been refuted numerous times. Cork have more clubs than Dublin for example. The playing populations are fairly similar but Cork have a far bigger land mass to cover. You would think the funding would be broadly similar? Not even close. Dublin have received many multiples of the amount Cork have received.

When you look at all other counties. There's not much if a gap. They all got enough to fund between 1 and 6 coaches. The only county out on it's own is Dublin. The results gained from this have been predictable.

Poor effort? Well, I’m not in need of your approval, I’m not in the slightest bit interested in your appraisal of ‘effort’... if X county are not satisfied with the levels of funding which they receive. They should lift the phone, they should write emails, they should schedule zoom meetings... put forward a case..to be in receipt of more funding..

They should lift the bar for themselves as opposed to attempting to lower it for anybody else.... unfortunately we’ve all come across people in life whose answer to every problem in life or every ‘perceived’ injustice is to ‘complain’ and point the finger at others who are successful and try to bring them down to their level it’s lazy but a lot easier than to address their ‘perceived’ injustice directly and probably saves some in psychologist fees if they can have a rant about it...lovely..

While X might have a bigger landmass, Dublin over the multiple clubs, teams, age groups, groups, both genders put in place what they need, with every variable and expense accounted for...

If X county don’t have what they need, go get it, lobby for it, get your facts, figures, sales pitch together... to work FOR you... if some joker came up to me in a meeting.... and instead of ‘we need’... THIS AMOUNT because of plans... plan A, B C to maintain and improve the sports and facilitate their running in the county I get... “well you gave Dublin 123456... so we want more !, give them less” I’ll give you more, your bus fare...

People won’t get anywhere or anything without going into bat for themselves....
we have all worked with those people who instead of looking at how they can improve, be well placed by virtue of their own effort and performance , instead look to see how they can run others down all the time, take what others have instead of making improvements themselves... same in this scenario. It’s lazy, very lazy, see through too. Ohhh dear.

Strumms wrote: »

Poor effort? Well, I’m not in need of your approval, I’m not in the slightest bit interested in your appraisal of ‘effort’... if X county are not satisfied with the levels of funding which they receive. They should lift the phone, they should write emails, they should schedule zoom meetings... put forward a case..to be in receipt of more funding..

They should lift the bar for themselves as opposed to attempting to lower it for anybody else.... unfortunately we’ve all come across people in life whose answer to every problem in life or every ‘perceived’ injustice is to ‘complain’ and point the finger at others who are successful and try to bring them down to their level it’s lazy but a lot easier than to address their ‘perceived’ injustice directly and probably saves some in psychologist fees if they can have a rant about it...lovely..

While X might have a bigger landmass, Dublin over the multiple clubs, teams, age groups, groups, both genders put in place what they need, with every variable and expense accounted for...

If X county don’t have what they need, go get it, lobby for it, get your facts, figures, sales pitch together... to work FOR you... if some joker came up to me in a meeting.... and instead of ‘we need’... THIS AMOUNT because of plans... plan A, B C to maintain and improve the sports and facilitate their running in the county I get... “well you gave Dublin 123456... so we want more !, give them less” I’ll give you more, your bus fare...

People won’t get anywhere or anything without going into bat for themselves....
we have all worked with those people who instead of looking at how they can improve, be well placed by virtue of their own effort and performance , instead look to see how they can run others down all the time, take what others have instead of making improvements themselves... same in this scenario. It’s lazy, very lazy, see through too. Ohhh dear.

That's a long post saying virtually nothing. Other counties have gone to HQ and had the door slammed in their face. That's why this is a scandal. The scheme planned and funded for Dublin is a great scheme. It has done wonders for Dublin GAA and that is great. Why wasnt this introduced across the country at the same time?

That's why the split has to happen. It was a Dublin only scheme and the snowball effect of it has left Dublin in an unattainable position. A professional organisation spending over 2 million on salaries alone every year. Time for the split.

Enquiring wrote: »

The funding helped increase participation but it also targeted elite development. A senior member of the Dublin system noted the transformation in standards of development squads from prior to the funding to post funding. He put that down to the gdo's.

On field success of course leads to increased sponsorship. How can you argue otherwise? Having the revenue available to hire marketing managers alone would lead to that. Having your development system funded for you frees up extra funds.

The rise in standards across the board has been incredible. Not just the senior footballers. The hurlers have gone from minnows to serious competitors. The Dublin ladies team have transformed into a dominant force like their male equivalents. Dublin club teams have also seen a huge increase in results. 2 All Ireland club hurling titles, that would have been unthinkable prior to the funding.

2 decades of funding disparity has left Dublin in an advantage position on and off the field. I've informed you of the figures available for Dublin GAA. These are amateur games we're discussing here, I don't see any reasonable argument for allowing one county to operate on a professional level with huge sums of money available to them in an amateur sport.

The bit in bold is simply not true. Your post implicitly recognises this by quoting the opinion of a single person on the issue.

The funding has been directed, continues to be directed and will be directed at juvenile participation. This is mainly done in schools and is a positive contribution to the mental and physical wellbeing of the children of this state. Long may that continue.

Enquiring wrote: »

I was respectfully engaging with you despite your odd posts.

Dublin gaining success would be great if it was done with the fair and equitable split of funding.
It wasn't and it's left us in this position.

Gaelic games being the number one sport in our capital is something that all GAA people want. This will still be the goal when the split occurs. In fact, splitting will assist in fighting that battle. There's too many negatives being posted about splitting Dublin. It's a positive both for those within the new counties and for the rest of the island.

More players will have access to inter county competitions, each county board can target areas within their county more effectively. Disadvantaged areas will reap the benefits of this. Getting young people involved in GAA instead of gangs in places like the inner city would be a main goal for the Dublin City county board. Look at the benefits for a place like Ballymun.

You're looking at this in the wrong way. The split will be great for GAA in Dublin.

Odd ? you need to look a little closer to home

There are many negatives about splitting Dublin, because there is nothing fair or positive about it.

New counties ? No, 33 / 34 counties is grand. You don’t get to rearrange the map, invent new counties or redraw sporting boundaries of a county championship because you dislike the success that one county is enjoying currently... sorry, life doesn’t dance attendance on your mad little whims or toys out of the park dalliances with the downright bizarre... but you made me laugh which is something..
... . Good job.

Iscreamkone wrote: »

The question that must be asked is - are we happy going forward to let one team win the vast majority of titles. Dublin will get caught sooner or later, but it's likely that they will bounce back and start winning ad nauseum again.
In fairness I admire their excellence. However, the vast majority of counties have no chance of competing with them and the few that can compete will come and go as their own cycle of ability comes to an end after a few years.
It will get boring (some will say that has already happened). This will affect everyone's income streams.

The GAA is unique in that weaker counties can't buy in talent like football teams can. So the bigger counties because of their population, if organised, have a huge advantage from day one. Dublin GAA is now super organised so the smaller counties can't get an advantage by being more organised than them - there will always be a gap. Only a sporting fluke will close the gap at the moment. And this will only be momentarily.

What we have is a Celtic/Rangers scenario but in our case there is only one giant.

One giant ? :rolleyes:

Kerry : 81 Munster Titles - 37 All Ireland Titles

Dublin :59 Leinster Titles - 30 All Ireland Titles

dunnerc wrote: »

One giant ? :rolleyes:

Kerry : 81 Munster Titles - 37 All Ireland Titles

Dublin :59 Leinster Titles - 30 All Ireland Titles

Kerry didn't have a plan created and funded to the tune of millions for them. If they did, calls for them to be split would be growing also.