ShyMets wrote: » Right. So you've once again ignored the point I was making. Which is County boundaries make no sense. The current structure needs to be torn up. If we want a competitive game a Senior level base it on population size. Which would entail splits and amalgamations. Simply splitting Dublin does very little for the majority of teams. And to quote your good self " you know this. I know this. We all know this".
Enquiring wrote: » It may be a little tricky for the first year but that will soon pass. When parents see their kids get an opportunity to represent their area at inter county level, the support will be instant. More clubs will have representatives at inter county level. It will really boost GAA in areas neglected by Dublin GAA. Local rivalries will bloom. Big crowds will attend these games. Plus, the county boundaries are already drawn. The 4 counties are ready to go!
Lost Ormond wrote: » But when would most in Fingal have ever really supported teams representing a Fingal team? When would they have supported and backed Fingal. Splitting Dublin will do little to help the vast majority of counties and their fans and chances of success. Someone born in North Tipp is in North Munster but that doesnt at all mean they will have an affiliation towards a North Munster team.
SheepsClothing wrote: » So what you are saying is, driving massive number of kids and their parents into playing and volunteering in Dublin GAA has little to no benefit to the senior county team? That's a wild claim.
Enquiring wrote: » I get the frustration, I really do. There is no justification for the funding disparity and we all know what it has led to. This is not an easy pill to swallow. It would be for a supporter of any county. It happened though, the Dublin county board accepted the money and they knew the day would come where the split had to happen. I've said it before but the sllit is being looked at from a negative point of view. This needs to change. It's a positive development for everyone, especially those in Dublin.
SheepsClothing wrote: » It shouldn't be that complicated. Splits are by their nature, less alienating than amalgamations. Somebody who was born and raised in the Fingal County Council area has been affiliated and thought of themselves as part of that area for much of/all of their life. Somebody born and raised in Monaghan, has never affiliated themselves with being from Cavan, in fact they consider Cavan their rival. If suddenly, the Mavan senior football team is formed, that Monaghan supporter is going to have much harder time supporting the Mavan team, than the former Dublin supporter will have supporting Fingal. There's also the fact that splitting Dublin is the path of least resistance to bringing about some semblance of competition. Splitting Dublin and disfranchising one counties support(I personally think it would drive support) for the benefit of the other 31, is easier than disenfranchising the other 31 counties in order to suit the one runaway train county.
Lost Ormond wrote: » We dont because finances alone do not make the best teams. Its all about best practices and money isnt necessarily needed for that to occur.
ShyMets wrote: » Fully agree. Using County boundaries makes zero sense. You would base it on population size. Basically you need x number of people in a geographically area to maintain a competitive team. This would entail splits and amalgamations. But while some posters are happy to split Dublin, they seem reluctant to countenance amalgamations. That does make me wonder
ShyMets wrote: » Thank you for responding and ignoring the points I was making. I want you to know that you're posts are important to me. Please keep posting
blanch152 wrote: » Not a single link to the quotations taken out of context, and the clear contradictions in everything you are posting is plain and obvious. Everything in your post is about the coaching of kids, the improvement of the volunteer coaches that leads to the improvement in enjoyment for kids who can handle the basic skill of kicking a ball. What your quotes are showing is that GDOs are working to ensure that coaching a 12-year old to hand-pass the ball and kick out of hands rather than along the ground so that they can get more enjoyment out of the game. That is exactly what I am saying. You are extrapolating that to mean that somehow the Dublin senior football team is better as a result. At the best of times, that is a stretch. It is unbelievable that you are so dead against ordinary kids being coached properly to kick and hand-pass the ball so that they can enjoy the game.
Iscreamkone wrote: » If we were starting the GAA from scratch today would we develop a competition where there is a such a huge inequality in resources and population size to select from? Of course not, it would be ridiculous.
blanch152 wrote: » I fully agree with you. I really struggle with somebody trying to reduce the enjoyment of ordinary kids playing the game because of senior inter-county football. Fundamentally, the GAA is about the club, about the juvenile players, about the sense of community. The work that the GDOs are doing is centred around all of that. Does the work of the GDOs increase the chances of better players coming through? Yes, it contributes in a small way. Does the work of the GDOs guarantee a successful senior inter-county team? No, it doesn't because the effects of the work of the GDO are marginal. Is the work of the GDOs the fundamental difference that saw Dublin win six-in-a-row? No, it absolutely isn't.
Enquiring wrote: » The split has to happen because of the financial disparity, you know this, I know this, we all know this. The facts and figures have all been presented here and the defenders of the millions of euros granted to Dublin have failed to counteract any of them. The only defence included busted myths, lies, deflection and disagreements with statements from members of the Dublin county board. Some want to ignore 2 decades worth of funding disparity. They want to brush it under the carpet. Otherwise they'd have to admit to the reality of it which they find very uncomfortable. The rest of us don't have to ignore it though. We know why Dublin have won 100 titles post funding. We can't allow a county to continue to compete on a professional basis.
ArielAtom wrote: » Blanch, what you are trying to do is logic with a person who refuses. It’s a losing battle. I posted links to a GPO on Twitter that very much backed up what you are saying but one poster picked up on “and occasionally go into secondary schools”. I have 1st hand experience in it since the Dublin only program that contrary to our resident contrarian ran from 2007 to 2017, the GDO was so stretched that we only saw him at our sessions for a max of 5 over a 7yr period. Elite coaching my arse, trying to teach parents with no GAA background to coach is a thankless task, if that’s another of their tasks. It does not suit some posters rhetoric to recognise that. It’s all about funding and splitting, probably to ensure their own county become competitive again. One poster even did similar in the rugby forum before landing in here, just posted drivel with no backup.
Enquiring wrote: » Oh dear, you're doubling down on this. You do know the role of the Strategic development officer? It's his job to oversee all of this, his job to know exactly where the development money is going and the work done under the games development banner. It's literally his exact job but you're claiming to know better than him. He states that the coaches role is under the direction of the clubs. His name is Kevin O'Shaughnessy and here are some direct quotes: "The coaches work very much in tune with what the particular club wants." And on their qualifications: "It is a high standard that allows them to train the trainers in each club to a high quality." That's not enough for you? How about former coaching and games officer for Dublin GAA; Ger O'Connor: "The coaches don't just concentrate on hurling or football. They organise everything within a club and camogie and ladies football get the benefit too." Still not enough? You want someone on the ground right? How about someone who's been there throughout this whole operation? Long serving Dublin GAA GPO Pauric McDonald had this to say on his observation of Dublin development squads from when he set out 2 decades ago to the current time: "I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching. I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin." All of this goes against your claim that it's all about juvenile participation. Do you have the contact details of the Dublin county board so you can correct them on this?
blanch152 wrote: » I am talking about the reality on the ground, not what somebody higher up is reputed to have said.
Enquiring wrote: » You're not arguing against me here. You're arguing against Dublin county board members including the Strategic development officer. They've stated what the gdo's do and the benefits achieved for development squads. The gdo's do go to primary and secondary schools but their main task is improving standards within their club. That's the bottom line.
Iscreamkone wrote: » Dublin GAA is now super organised so the smaller counties can't get an advantage by being more organised than them - there will always be a gap.
blanch152 wrote: » I have seen the work done in special schools by GDOs, calling them glorified PE teachers, reducing them to trainers of the elite are huge insults to their work. The majority of kids coached by GDOs won't end up in GAA clubs, many GDOs will never see a kid coached by them reach a county team, that is the reality, because their work is about mass participation, not about building a better senior team. I am leaving it there.
Enquiring wrote: » So you are claiming that clubs in Dublin are paying for glorified PE teachers? This goes against statements from senior Dublin county board members. They state clearly that the coaches work under the direction of the clubs who hire them. Should we believe the Dublin county board members or a poster who wants to brush two decades of funding disparity under the carpet?
Iscreamkone wrote: » When you say man up - I would say that some of the smaller counties are doing very well. Kerry with only 10% of Dublin's population create more quality players per 100,000 pop than Dublin. However, Kerry will find it hard to multiply their output further. There will always be a gap because the population differences are so big. And the difference between urban and rural populations will only get bigger with time.
Strumms wrote: » I simply never pointed out splits .. if the sport is decline in x county, they need to stand up, man up, organize themselves and not worry about what’s going on in other counties unless it’s as a template as how they must strive and work to improve... as sports people, administrators and indeed people...
blanch152 wrote: » Well, I am sorry, this post just exposes your lack of knowledge on the issue. The GDOs don't just go to primary and secondary schools for player recruitment - nearly all of their work is in primary and secondary schools. Elite player development is not part of their remit. Where you are getting confused is with what those GDOs do as part of their job and separately as part of their voluntary time. The GAA in Dublin is driven forward nearly entirely by the work of volunteers. So if a GDO in a school helps out in his local club on a Tuesday night training the U-21s, that isn't the GAA or anyone else paying for him to do that, that is him volunteering. He would have been doing that whether he was a GDO or a teacher or a Garda.
Enquiring wrote: » They'll have to. There's no other option.
