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Our Sport is Under Attack Again

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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    garv123 wrote: »
    That looks like a locked receptacle to me, its in the name :D
    Common mistake, it's a loc'd receptacle :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭minktrapper


    Cass wrote: »
    For anyone interested, here is the EU directive 91/447/EEC.

    I had a glance and there is far more in it than in our SI so maybe we didn't get sh*t on, however i notice most of the stricter stuff wouldn't apply to us anyway as it's already banned here. :D

    One thing in particular. Any full auto firearm that is deactivated and shown to be is now illegal to own personally. Only Museums can own them.

    But if it is deactivated it's deactivated. And of no use to anyone. The same should apply to all deactivated firearms so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,007 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Minktrapper.
    Cass was reading the wrong document,its a 2015 document of proposals. Yeah you can own a welded up lump of metal that formerly was a machine gun no problem.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,757 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    But if it is deactivated it's deactivated. And of no use to anyone. The same should apply to all deactivated firearms so.

    IIRC it was something to do with deactivated AKs in Slovakia being reactivated and used in the Charlie Hebdo massacre. There were different degrees of 'deactivated' from country to country


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,007 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    yubabill wrote: »

    Reckon the car/ammo thing was proposed by a genius to prevent poaching. Somebody give them a raise and get them to solve Brexit.

    Nope! Its actually part of updated EU legislation ASFIK.Been doing this in Germany,come to think about it for years now.But no one goes mental about it in reality.a locked rucksack,putting it in a lockable bag,box,even in the stash compartments in some models of suvs that can be locked is good enough.No one I know has ever built a safe into their car over there.Just so long as the guns are in a locked slip case,etc and ditto ammo,you are good.

    Everyone knows if your car was nicked with the stuff in it.By people who can bypass pretty sophisticated alarms and immobilisers on moern cars...It wont last 5mins with a cordless drill and a bolt cutters on the locks.Its just a deterrant against causual and opportunistic theives.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    But if it is deactivated it's deactivated. And of no use to anyone. The same should apply to all deactivated firearms so.

    Yeah i followed the wrong link which brought me to the 2015 proposals, instead of the final draft. Which is here.

    Both were May with the proposals in 2015 and the final in 2017, hence my mistake. :o
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,007 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    IIRC it was something to do with deactivated AKs in Slovakia being reactivated and used in the Charlie Hebdo massacre. There were different degrees of 'deactivated' from country to country

    Yup....Czech or Slovak imported and converted Serbian AK variants.The Czech deact law was simply remove the firing pin,weld up the hole and put a pin in the barrel.All of about a few hours work to re activate with spare parts..What was worse was the EU sat for seven years on this legislation to bring EU wide deacts up to a common spec,and then that Socialist Swedish Cow, Maelestrom [GREEN PARTY,what else??:mad:] decided to have a go at gun banning and social engineering EU wide.
    What is it with these progressive depressive IKEA landers??They seem to want to export their Green socialist depressive misery on us all?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    There were different degrees of 'deactivated' from country to country
    The current/new standard:
    “deactivated firearms” means firearms that have been rendered permanently unfit for use by deactivation, ensuring that all essential components of the firearm in question have been rendered permanently inoperable and incapable of removal, replacement or modification in a manner that would permit the firearm to be reactivated in any way
    All topped of with a certificate by an authorised person to declare such has been carried out. Each member state should have a body set up to do this/verify it, but "THIS IS SPARTA IRELAND" and we simply push that responsibility to the the little guy. Namely it's up to us to get it done, somehow, somewhere..............
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,007 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Apprently three companies are trying to do it here,and are waiting......Crickets................tumble weed rolls by.....Coyote howls in the distance.....more crickets.....you get the idea.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    No, i'm completely lost. Our Government have been so ast on others things such as the reloading act, firearm acts review, etc, etc.







    Can anyone sense the sarcasm cos i'm laying it on fairly heavily.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭yubabill


    Cass wrote: »
    Yeah i followed the wrong link which brought me to the 2015 proposals, instead of the final draft. Which is here.

    Both were May with the proposals in 2015 and the final in 2017, hence my mistake. :o

    Right - reading the link above, it looks to me that most C/F B/A rifles come under Category C?

    If so, there is no restriction on mag capacity for these people, except perhaps they also own a Category B rifle. The directive states anyone with a Cat B C/F S/A who possesses a mag with capacity greater than 10 rounds etc. will have their licence taken etc.

    But it does not say that someone with a Cat C C/F B/A will be subject.

    Plenty of B/A's out there that take AR mags, seen them on sale here in dealers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭minktrapper


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Minktrapper.
    Cass was reading the wrong document,its a 2015 document of proposals. Yeah you can own a welded up lump of metal that formerly was a machine gun no problem.

    There is a lot of nice firearms out there that should belong in collections. With a lot of history behind them. Shame to see them destroyed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter




  • Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭Ju_Ju


    Cass wrote: »
    Exactly.

    HEre is what i already have, and it works a treat:

    Ammo-Can-with-Lock-More-Safe.jpg_300x300.jpg

    Picked up a couple of these in Army Surplus Warehouse (army surplus is a bit of a stretch, definitely a warehouse though) in Carlow today. €15 a piece then €2 for a lock. Bargain.

    It's a pain that we now have even more hoops to jump through to take part in our sport. As has been said numerous times already, it's not a surprise.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Ju_Ju wrote: »
    Picked up a couple of these in Army Surplus Warehouse (army surplus is a bit of a stretch, definitely a warehouse though) in Carlow today. €15 a piece then €2 for a lock. Bargain.
    They have a branch in Portlaoise too, it's where i got mine.

    You're right about the Army surplus angle, and a lot of the stuff is, how can i put this politely, not brand name, but they have some good stuff, some oddities, and it's cheap as chips.
    It's a pain that we now have even more hoops to jump through to take part in our sport. As has been said numerous times already, it's not a surprise.

    You have to ask yourself, at what point is it too much? I know no one admits to giving up, but there are times, rarely thank God, that i wonder if its wise to sell everything and take up knitting (although they may ban the needles shortly enough), but at least i'll be left with a crap ton of yarn. :D
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,007 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    yubabill wrote: »
    Right - reading the link above, it looks to me that most C/F B/A rifles come under Category C?
    Yup along with MSRs,pumps levers lever release,mARS etc.
    If so, there is no restriction on mag capacity for these people, except perhaps they also own a Category B rifle. The directive states anyone with a Cat B C/F S/A who possesses a mag with capacity greater than 10 rounds etc. will have their licence taken etc
    .

    Yup you cant own a Cat B semi auto and have mags over ten shots for or in it.
    But it does not say that someone with a Cat C C/F B/A will be subject.

    Unless it happens to be that you have a "prohibited item" IE the mag itself,and it is fitted to your bolt action ,pump action,etc? Yes ,it sounds weird and convoluted and made up.But that is the utter illogic ,you deal with in the EU on things like this.It is ludicrious but I belive that was an arguement put forward.Maybe it was dropped too?As I could have been reading proposal incorrectly too,as there were and are still idiotic suggestions flying about there?
    Plenty of B/A's out there that take AR mags, seen them on sale here in dealers.

    You have Mossberg,Savage and....Thats about it really,and they only take .223
    AR mags. SIG,HK,FN ,of which there are many out there are goosed with that

    The AR platform is safe enough in CAT B,as I have yet to see a Colt M16/M4 lower with a modified fire control and modified select fire bolt carrier group here on any ranges here yet.:)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,007 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Support you local army surplus shop.They are becoming another dying breed of store too.
    https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/rise-fall-army-surplus-store/

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭oldgit1897


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Support you local army surplus shop.They are becoming another dying breed of store too.
    https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/rise-fall-army-surplus-store/

    Reminds me of the Brendan Grace joke about being so poor as a kid, his mother buying his clothes in the Army surplus shops and him going to school dressed as a Japanese Admiral.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭Ju_Ju


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Support you local army surplus shop.They are becoming another dying breed of store too.
    https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/rise-fall-army-surplus-store/

    Absolutely, I'd highly reccomend Protac in the Curragh (they were my first port of call for an ammo box). An absolute treasure trove of a place. I was in there for a pair of boots last week, didn't have my size, I still ended up with over €100 worth of "essentials".

    And apologies for dragging the thread even further off topic, but it's good to see an AOM link being shared. Brett McKay puts out some great free content.


  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭ak51535


    As far as the marking goes, is it just a matter of getting the serial number on the parts that don't have them? I know mine doesn't have it on the lower receiver or the barrel.

    Thanks


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,007 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    What do you have?Sounds like an AR? Did you import it before 2018? Then No. If after 20 th Sept 2018 then YES. Both upper and lower,barrel,
    Bolt,NOT note in an AR the "Bolt carrier group" Just the bolt head,as it is the pressure bearing part.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Brontosaurus


    So more and more muddy regulations and cost for the law abiding shooter to worry about?

    Some people don't seem to realize that we just get more and more regulations, so gun laws get more and more restrictive, pigs will fly before we get any deregulation of firearms.

    Over time have we gotten more or less restrictive gun laws? It will get harder and harder to get anything other than a double barrel as time goes on, if we're lucky.

    And the fudds will say "sure it's not a big deal this new legislation only does this or that", and then they'll say the same thing when the next batch of murky legislation comes in, like a frog in boiling water...


  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭ak51535


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    What do you have?Sounds like an AR? Did you import it before 2018? Then No. If after 20 th Sept 2018 then YES. Both upper and lower,barrel,
    Bolt,NOT note in an AR the "Bolt carrier group" Just the bolt head,as it is the pressure bearing part.

    It's a ruger precision rifle in .223, I looked up the serial number and ruger says it was shipped in 2017, cheers for the reply grizzly


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    And the fudds will say "sure it's not a big deal this new legislation only does this or that", .............

    I'm guilty of this, but it's not a capitulation issue, well i suppose it is. This is a done deal. Its EU and Irish law now. In the last 50 years you know how many laws were repealed?

    One.

    The one regarding a proof house and that was only because the Government realised the cost factor involved.

    Look at the outrage, and rightly so, when the RFD SI landed without prior notice or consultation with the majority of the RFD (not counting the two or three that worked on their own). It's still on the books.

    The only way to even open this up for discussion is to have a serious, and united, opposition by the various bodies involved, and if that fails there may be a Judicial route. However that way would require identification and challenges to the legality of the SI and regulations laid out in it. That is well beyond my level of knowledge though so i'll await the outcome of those better educated than me to see if it's a possibility.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    ak51535 wrote: »
    It's a ruger precision rifle in .223, I looked up the serial number and ruger says it was shipped in 2017, cheers for the reply grizzly
    Excuse my ignorance as i've not seen one in the flesh.

    Is this not a "one piece" receiver. IOW a whole receiver with bolt, firing mechanism and feed in the one unit?
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭ak51535


    Cass wrote: »
    Excuse my ignorance as i've not seen one in the flesh.

    Is this not a "one piece" receiver. IOW a whole receiver with bolt, firing mechanism and feed in the one unit?

    Hi Cass, The upper receiver has the Receiver, bolt and trigger mechanism then has a lower with the pistol grip, trigger guard, magazine well and safety selector on it, its attached by 2 bolts, so when I saw that the SI mentioned upper and lower it had me wondering....the serial number is only on the upper and bolt body.

    thanks


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Is it not just a bolt action rifle then?

    My opinion would be the reference to upper and lower receivers is reserved specifically for semi auto, "AR" type firearms.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭ak51535


    Cass wrote: »
    Is it not just a bolt action rifle then?

    My opinion would be the reference to upper and lower receivers is reserved specifically for semi auto, "AR" type firearms.

    Yes sorry its a bolt action, oh okay that clears it up so there's no need to have it engraved then?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    ak51535 wrote: »
    ................... so there's no need to have it engraved then?
    .
    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Did you import it before 2018? Then No. If after 20 th Sept 2018 then YES. .
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭yubabill


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Yup along with MSRs,pumps levers lever release,mARS etc.

    .

    Yup you cant own a Cat B semi auto and have mags over ten shots for or in it.



    Unless it happens to be that you have a "prohibited item" IE the mag itself,and it is fitted to your bolt action ,pump action,etc? Yes ,it sounds weird and convoluted and made up.But that is the utter illogic ,you deal with in the EU on things like this.It is ludicrious but I belive that was an arguement put forward.Maybe it was dropped too?As I could have been reading proposal incorrectly too,as there were and are still idiotic suggestions flying about there?



    You have Mossberg,Savage and....Thats about it really,and they only take .223
    AR mags. SIG,HK,FN ,of which there are many out there are goosed with that

    The AR platform is safe enough in CAT B,as I have yet to see a Colt M16/M4 lower with a modified fire control and modified select fire bolt carrier group here on any ranges here yet.:)

    The EU directive does not ban the magazines, it bans Category B firearms owners from possessing them;

    "3. Member States shall ensure that an authorisation to acquire and an authorisation to possess a firearm classified in category B shall be withdrawn if the person who was granted that authorisation is found to be in possession of a loading device apt to be fitted to centre-fire semi-automatic firearms or repeating firearms, which:
    (a)
    can hold more than 20 rounds; or
    (b)
    in the case of long firearms, can hold more than 10 rounds,
    unless that person has been granted an authorisation under Article 6 or an authorisation which has been confirmed, renewed or prolonged under Article 7(4a)."

    I don't see where the Irish SI bans the mags either.


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