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Our Sport is Under Attack Again

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    ace86 wrote: »
    I’m just wondering how they expect a fellow to travel to a shoot have his gun in the boot but now must store is ammo in the bak seat and still keep them secure and out of sight to satisfy a directive.
    I have an alarm in my house ammo is stored in the room but not in the safe so I must buy another safe or modify a press to accommodate them. Jesus lads in offices have nothing better to do only thinking up crazy ideas justifying jobs and creating more jobs,money, and revenue.

    Throw a old dog blanket,or travel rug over it.Its now out of sight.Literally that simple.Law doesnt say how it must be out of sight,just out of sight.

    Buy an old filing cabinet for 20 euros on boards for sale and get a hinged flat stock bar welded onto the side so you can lock all the drawers,with one padlock.I use my dads old US Navy footlocker for ammo storage and aGS is happty enough with that.Plus if there is ever a house fire,it can be shifted real quick by the fire dept..

    The way this part of the law is written is easy and vauge enough,not to break too much of a sweat about getting sorted.:)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    because at one stage up to the lat 80s .The default setting for mags with SA's was 20 rounds from the factory,and it was monkeyed about with California introducing it,and then the cime bill from Clinton.It has been proven to be a non influential point in mass shootings.People just carry more 10 round mags or tape them together and practise a quick mag change.
    Excuse the bluntness but none of that is germane to us, here in Ireland.

    You can buy mags of any round amount, easily, we're not Commiefornia, nor any other state in the US. In mainland Europe most countries will just "copy and paste" the directive which means 10+ round mags on ranges will be still be allowed and comps can continue on as is, same for hunting.

    As hunting with a restricted semi auto (that description should cover shotguns and rifles alike) for seasonal game is already illegal here, and most comps are ten rounds or fewer, it won't impact our ability to shoot.
    Whats to say next time round it will be down to five rounds?
    Not a thing. Could possibly happen, but as with this all the "might" of the EU gun lobby couldn't stop it, and here we are 18 months later with an SI saying so.

    So without being apathetic to the situation we'll have to cross that bridge if and when it comes.


    It's why i ask what is the problem. Is it just outright opposition to any change or is there a valid reason for it?
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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    The way this part of the law is written is easy and vauge enough,not to break too much of a sweat about getting sorted.:)
    Exactly.

    HEre is what i already have, and it works a treat:

    Ammo-Can-with-Lock-More-Safe.jpg_300x300.jpg
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    E N
    As hunting with a restricted semi auto (that description should cover shotguns and rifles alike) for seasonal game is already illegal here, and most comps are ten rounds or fewer, it won't impact our ability to shoot.

    NOPE! Show me please where it says in the Wildlife act 1976/2001 where it is prohibited to hunt game with a CF semiauto rifle of any mag capacity ??? It specifies shotguns,not rifles. Also if you are going to say because it is restricted it is only useable for target shooting,that is if you ONLY specified target shooting in your application.Nothing stopping you using a restricted rifle or plugged restricted shotgun for both here.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »

    Not a thing. Could possibly happen, but as with this all the "might" of the EU gun lobby couldn't stop it, and here we are 18 months later with an SI saying so.

    So without being apathetic to the situation we'll have to cross that bridge if and when it comes.


    It's why i ask what is the problem. Is it just outright opposition to any change or is there a valid reason for it?

    Valid reason.You missed the exemption specifically given in the directive to any sports disipline that is recognised internationally,and practised nationally on a club level that requires a higher round count than Cat B firearms posses. IOW if we had for example IPSC here or the like,it would exempt those participating.Yet there are a couple of disiplines that even could justify it here ,in F class there is one disipline. And Yes the "Might" of the Eu gun lobby DID dilute this a Hell of alot.Had it gone the EU way,I can tell you my friend ,tonight you and me would be looking at saying good bye to our two rifles and handguns! So dont underestimate what EU gun lobby groups can do at Brussels level.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Marking of Firearms  Firearms and essential components imported into the State from a non- EU country or manufactured in the State must be marked without delay and at the latest before placement on the market.


    Another intresting spanner in the works there in that seems to apply to new guns only being imported from the US or the like,not to our current domestic stock already out there,unless you intend to sell it?And if that happens it really becomes the gun dealers problem,not yours. if you are doing a trade in.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    NOPE! Show me please where it says in the Wildlife act 1976/2001 where it is prohibited to hunt game with a semiauto rifle of any mag capacity ???
    I purposely didn't specify rifles only, and said should cover to emphasise my uncertainty on the rifle issue, but my certainty on shotguns. As you said the shotguns are specifically covered by Section 33(a) of the 1976 making them illegal to use so i'm 50% right and stand 50% corrected. :D
    Also if you are going to say because it is restricted it is only useble for target shooting,that is if you ONLY specified target shooting in your application.Nothing stopping you using a restricted rifle for both here.
    I'm not because it's not relevant to the thread.

    Sticking only to rifles, to be clear, how will the mag limit affect us?
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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Another intresting spanner in the works there in that seems to apply to new guns only being imported from the US or the like,not to our current domestic stock already out there,...........

    But firearms from the states are already marked. Serial numbers on the barrels, actions of rifles, and the same with shotguns. Pistols aren't really an issue here, but they are also stamped/marked are they not?

    So how will this affect the current standings of things? Other than custom jobs?

    By the by i'm not being a dick, i'm genuinely asking. I don't see this as huge deal. We knew it was coming for over a year, there was no way to stop it, and because people that "don't get involved in the politics of shooting" are now awake and realising it wasn't a bad dream and they have new laws to follow they're all upset.

    Ok that very last part was a bit dickish. :o

    It's not directed at anyone on this thread because most of ye were involved in the previously threads on this subject. It's others on other forums and sites that are all shocked this is happening. Reminds me of the gag about the guy that complained about getting hit by a fire truck, saying they should give some sort of warning it's coming.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    I cant see the SI anywhere and from what I read, it's very badly worded. A lockable receptacle that's an ammo box.

    If it is legit it wasn't discussed with any of the Associations be it NARGC or ICTSA.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I cant see the SI anywhere and from what I read, it's very badly worded. A lockable receptacle that's an ammo box.

    If it is legit it wasn't discussed with any of the Associations be it NARGC or ICTSA.

    Check the link just above your post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Peppa Cig


    So on the markings - e.g. if I acquire am MDT Chassis it must be marked (if not already marked) with a unique random number?

    What’s the plan after - RFD will record this random number in a book as sold to Mr x?

    What if Mr X wants to sell the part after a year?

    Maybe I’m missing something.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Ziggieire


    I would think they mean pistol frames.
    A rifle chassis is not a functional part of the rifle, you can use one without chassis or stock.
    But a pistol needs a frame to fire.
    Please correct me if i'm wrong


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Ziggieire wrote: »
    I would think they mean pistol frames.
    A rifle chassis is not a functional part of the rifle, you can use one without chassis or stock.
    But a pistol needs a frame to fire.
    Please correct me if i'm wrong

    They mean any pressure bearing parts,and now parts that contain the PB parts as well.IE upper & Lower recivers,slides ,etc.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    Cass wrote: »
    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    The way this part of the law is written is easy and vauge enough,not to break too much of a sweat about getting sorted.:)
    Exactly.

    HEre is what i already have, and it works a treat:

    Ammo-Can-with-Lock-More-Safe.jpg_300x300.jpg
    I have a beretta bag and it takes a suitcase lock, so sorted. "Lockable receptacle " so any ammo box or tool box with a lock on the floor of the back of the car. That compliance as far as I can see.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Yup,you could take a duffle bag ang put a el cheapo travel suitcase lock on it and be100% legal. Not that I'd recommend such or advise to do so.But it is 100% legal as this law is written.There are no specifics given on this at all.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Also RE the markings and stamping.There is an enterprising fellow and gun dealer/smith ,who will be along shortly no doubt, who has a LASER engraver who will be able to do this for us without worrying now of having parts bodged with metal punches that were last used on a trucks engine block.:)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    [
    QUOTE=Cass;110932319]But firearms from the states are already marked. Serial numbers on the barrels, actions of rifles, and the same with shotguns. Pistols aren't really an issue here, but they are also stamped/marked are they not?

    NOPE! The only part that is marked in the US is the RECIVER! It's considerd the whole gun in itself and everything else is just a heap of parts. If you are selling firearms commercially,it must have the makers name,model and a serial number on the reciver itself.But nowhere else.

    So how will this affect the current standings of things? Other than custom jobs
    ?

    Well,now you'll have to mark all the required parts before offering the gun for sale as a gun dealer,and possibly as a private seller to a 3rd party if I read this right.So hopefully your gundealer,who happens to be a gunsmith as well by the law here.Has a set of punches and knows how to punch discreetly,and that these punches werent borrowed from the garage next door,to mark a n engine block.Or hopefully there is someone out there with a lazer engraver to do the job well.

    By the by i'm not being a dick, i'm genuinely asking. I don't see this as huge deal.

    It is and it isnt... The big part for me is the high cap mags part and that there is [1] no compensation being offered or [2] the option of converting to 10 or20 rounds respectively. The engraving,well,it will just add costs to parts,and make it more complicated even to import parts from "that company that may not be mentioned.ie" Say I want a new bolt carrier group,doees he engrave my serial number on it? As this is technically gunsmith work,[it creates metal chips and is working on a pressure part]is he entitled to carry this out?
    ]We knew it was coming for over a year, there was no way to stop it, and because people that "don't get involved in the politics of shooting" are now awake and realising it wasn't a bad dream and they have new laws to follow they're all upset.
    Ok that very last part was a bit dickish. :o

    No being very realistic ,and some deserve the bucket of cold water alarm call.They are now hopefully,seeing what Brussels can and will do,and that if it hadnt been fought in the EU,this could have been very much worse for us here at the end of the EU sewer pipe,[Thanks FUN!your'e welcome!!]and that you cant rely utterly on national orgs to keep you informed. Seeing also.How long has "More crap on the way" thread being going on discussing this almost from the word go three years ago? We have it almost blow by blow,but some people are acting like this is all news??? It shows also,again,the pee poor commuincations between all the orgs as to what is coming down the pipe


    It's not directed at anyone on this thread because most of ye were involved in the previously threads on this subject. It's others on other forums and sites that are all shocked this is happening. Reminds me of the gag about the guy that complained about getting hit by a fire truck, saying they should give some sort of warning it's coming.

    Price of egos and the tryanny of small differences that many are uninformed,because they consider boards too...Whatever.:pac:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭garv123


    I have a beretta bag and it takes a suitcase lock, so sorted. "Lockable receptacle " so any ammo box or tool box with a lock on the floor of the back of the car. That compliance as far as I can see.

    Does it actually say it has to locked, or just lockable? :D


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Peppa Cig wrote: »
    So on the markings - e.g. if I acquire am MDT Chassis it must be marked (if not already marked) with a unique random number?
    As explained above, no.
    I have a beretta bag and it takes a suitcase lock, so sorted. "Lockable receptacle " so any ammo box or tool box with a lock on the floor of the back of the car. That compliance as far as I can see.
    Yup.
    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    NOPE! The only part that is marked in the US is the RECIVER! It's considerd the whole gun in itself and everything else is just a heap of parts. If you are selling firearms commercially,it must have the makers name,model and a serial number on the reciver itself.But nowhere else.
    My 308 bolt action rifle is from the states. It has the receiver and barrel marked/stamped.

    The markings are not just referring to semi auto/AR type firearms, or pistols only. I think they list all those parts so as to cover all types of firearms.

    I mean a bolt action rifle, nor a shotgun, has an upper receiver yet its listed as having to be marked.
    Grizzly45 wrote:
    How long has "More crap on the way" thread being going on discussing this almost from the word go three years ago?
    My point exactly. This is not some surprise attack, its what has to come after the EU does their thing.

    I'm not happy about it, but it was expected.
    garv123 wrote: »
    Does it actually say it has to locked, or just lockable? :D
    Don't know if there is a difference but the SI says "Receptacle that is locked". So no need for safes, or armored containers. A simple device that can be locked will suffice. This is a kind of save for us. Had they specified a safe it's have been disastrous for many.

    I've linked the SI below for those that missed the link above.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    My 308 bolt action rifle is from the states. It has the receiver and barrel marked/stamped.

    Could be various reasons for this..Could be an export to EU/Canada model?Quick change barrel?, Wasnt enough room to write it all on the reciver,which is usually the case with BA guns,as usually the reciver and barrel/action are considerd one whole unit,as the barrel isnt easily swoppable.
    The markings are not just referring to semi auto/AR type firearms, or pistols only. I think they list all those parts so as to cover all types of firearms
    .

    Yup!! Everything.
    I mean a bolt action rifle, nor a shotgun, has an upper receiver yet its listed as having to be marked.

    True, they are covering as many possibilities and variations of firearms components.
    I'm not happy about it, but it was expected.
    Ever since the Paris attacks and Charlie Hebdo.Thats what 4 years now?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Could be an export to EU/Canada model?
    Nope.
    Quick change barrel?,
    Nope.
    Wasnt enough room to write it all on the reciver,
    Nope, plenty of room.

    This marking aspect is not as big a deal as it would appear. I still maintain it's to address the gunsmithing aspect of firearm ownership here. No more parts bought it and put together to form a unique gun without some sort of traceability.

    Secondly you don't need to have every part listed marked as some firearms simply don't have those parts. If my receiver and barrel are marked/stamped then it complies and most factory rifles have this.
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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭oldgit1897


    Bad enough we have our own bunch of wallys in the dail and senate making stupid laws, but then we have the bloody eu on us as well, and not just with shooting and firearms ownership, everything.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    By the way i see in section 10 it talks about revoking of licenses and the deadline for this.

    Anyone with a high capacity mag or firearm tha now sits in Cat A has until March 1st next year to get shot of it as their license stands revoked on that day. Same with the items listed as now being banned (11+ round mags for rifles & 21+ mags for pistols). We have until September 1st if i'm reading it right, and if i'm not then we have until MArch 1st 2020 to get shot of them.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    oldgit1897 wrote: »
    Bad enough we have our own bunch of wallys in the dail and senate making stupid laws, but then we have the bloody eu on us as well, and not just with shooting and firearms ownership, everything.
    We will get it a little harsher than our EU brethren.

    They still have practical pistol and rifle and the original EU directive allows for anyone who is a range member and engaged in such sports to hold onto their high capacity mags. However as Ireland banned this shooting 10+ years ago we have no excuse.

    In this thread someone asked if practical shooting will ever return, i think you have your answer now.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    garv123 wrote: »
    I have a beretta bag and it takes a suitcase lock, so sorted. "Lockable receptacle " so any ammo box or tool box with a lock on the floor of the back of the car. That compliance as far as I can see.

    Does it actually say it has to locked, or just lockable? :D
    Very true..


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    By the way i see in section 10 it talks about revoking of licenses and the deadline for this.

    Anyone with a high capacity mag or firearm tha now sits in Cat A has until March 1st next year to get shot of it as their license stands revoked on that day. Same with the items listed as now being banned (11+ round mags for rifles & 21+ mags for pistols). We have until September 1st if i'm reading it right, and if i'm not then we have until MArch 1st 2020 to get shot of them.

    You have until March 2020.

    OR the option to contact your lawyers and challenge this as actually unconstitutional under sect 14 EUCHR and article 46 of the irish constitution.You are being deprived of the legal use and enjoyment of your property in the intrest of the common good.Whatever that is...In that case you must be offerd payment to the value of the item in good times . Especially important for those with the converted to SA rifles .

    OR we can point it out that this solveable by adding an addition to the SI.of Permantly converting any existing mags to the now legal requirement of 10/20 rounds and grandfathering the rifles.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    OR we can point it out that this solveable by adding an addition to the SI.of Permantly converting any existing mags to the now legal requirement of 10/20 rounds and grandfathering the rifles.


    Please, please, please don't suggest that they make more laws as we'll only end up losing even more stuff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    However as Ireland banned this shooting 10+ years ago
    .[/quote]
    F Class Rapid fire shot with SA target rifles.Recognised internationally .Was a proposed solution to this by Grizzly "Cassandra"45 an age ago. ..Crickets..was the response from the community.Too late ro matter now...

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,992 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Please, please, please don't suggest that they make more laws as we'll only end up losing even more stuff.

    Well if they had consulted us.And we had taken more intrest in WTF was happening in Europe...We wouldnt be in this mess now?So unfortuneatly it will have to be considerd and mentioned...

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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