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Our Sport is Under Attack Again

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    For anyone interested, here is the EU directive 91/447/EEC.

    I had a glance and there is far more in it than in our SI so maybe we didn't get sh*t on, however i notice most of the stricter stuff wouldn't apply to us anyway as it's already banned here. :D

    One thing in particular. Any full auto firearm that is deactivated and shown to be is now illegal to own personally. Only Museums can own them.
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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    F Class Rapid fire shot with SA target rifles.Recognised internationally .Was a proposed solution to this by Grizzly "Cassandra"45 an age ago. ..Crickets..was the response from the community.Too late ro matter now...
    If ya want to rehash mistakes not getting it banned in the first place, practical shooting, would have been the right move, but that too fell on deaf ears. So.............................................
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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    For anyone interested, here is the EU directive 91/447/EEC.

    One thing in particular. Any full auto firearm that is deactivated and shown to be is now illegal to own personally. Only Museums can own them.

    Where did you see that Cass?The directive or the Irish SI?As that was another big sticky point.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    The Directive. It doens't apply to us as Auto firearm are prohibited before this SI.

    The directive this SI stems from is, afaik, the one i linked to above. Maybe i'm wrong. If you think Irish law is hard to follow try EU stuff. It's a fecking maze.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    You are reading a proposal document from 2015 mate!:)

    Thats not the final wording document or what was passed. When you get to the bottom you'll see all the amendments that were proposed and changed.What gave it away to be was this "The proposal bans the semi-automatic weapons which are included in the current category "B7". NEVER happened...:)

    Yes you can still own the deacted full auto stuff,but it has to be "De Deactivated to new EU standards" IOW it is so welded up to be a high tech awkard club. If you ever intend to sell or inherit it.

    Dont worry,it is a bollix alllright to read this stuff,and I got pretty good at it real quick.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭oldgit1897


    Cass wrote: »
    The directive this SI stems from is, afaik, the one i linked to above. Maybe i'm wrong. If you think Irish law is hard to follow try EU stuff. It's a fecking maze.

    Probably deliberately made so. The eu is losing the run of themselves with new laws. Talking to the milkman the other night, he has been handed a huge folder of laws fron the eu, Had to buy new vans as the ones he had didn't meet what they wanted. Its the nanny state run by boring Belgians on a massive scale.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    You are reading a proposal document from 2015 mate!:)

    I followed multiple links, PDFs, etc. and this one was dated May 2017 so i thought i was on the right path.

    Balls.

    Need to do more digging to find the EU directive this SI stems from.
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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    oldgit1897 wrote: »
    Talking to the milkman the other night, he has been handed a huge folder of laws fron the eu, Had to buy new vans as the ones he had didn't meet what they wanted..

    The Hoovers done it for me. You cannot own anything over 900w now. REALLY. Hoovers. In all that is happening in our world and they think hoovers are the way forward.

    Same with the CPC drivers course. In effect the EU ha said the Irish driving license you have it not worth a stocking of piss so here is a course you pay hundreds to do and by the time you've completed the modules you have to start it all over again. An endless, and i do mean endless, cycle of courses to be able to drive in your own country even AFTER your Government gave you a driving license when you PASSED your driving test.
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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭oldgit1897


    Cass wrote: »
    The Hoovers done it for me. You cannot own anything over 900w now. REALLY. Hoovers. In all that is happening in our world and they think hoovers are the way forward.

    Same with the CPC drivers course. In effect the EU ha said the Irish driving license you have it not worth a stocking of piss so here is a course you pay hundreds to do and by the time you've completed the modules you have to start it all over again. An endless, and i do mean endless, cycle of courses to be able to drive in your own country even AFTER your Government gave you a driving license when you PASSED your driving test.


    It will get a lot worse after Brexit, The British said no to a lot of proposed nonsense and by doing so scuppered it. When they are gone the eu has a clear run to do what they want, which lets face it is a united states of europe, led by Germany and their lickspittles, France.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    I followed multiple links, PDFs, etc. and this one was dated May 2017 so i thought i was on the right path.

    Balls.

    Need to do more digging to find the EU directive this SI stems from.

    Tis in the more crap thread around 2017 2018.As I posted the final draft of it around then.As well as when it wad signed into EU law.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    I followed multiple links, PDFs, etc. and this one was dated May 2017 so i thought i was on the right path.

    Balls.

    Need to do more digging to find the EU directive this SI stems from.

    Tis in the more crap thread around 2017 2018.As I posted the final draft of it around then.As well as when it wad signed into EU law.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,499 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Rifter wrote: »
    Where did you get this info from Battlecorp?? And from where did they get it?

    Sorry, but I won't reveal my source but suffice to say that I trust them and they aren't the type to peddle bullsh1t.

    Hopefully it's not a civil servant or a Garda source as that would be illegal which would make this thread closable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    An Ri rua wrote: »
    Hopefully it's not a civil servant or a Garda source as that would be illegal which would make this thread closable.

    It's up on the ICTSA website so I'm hardly breaking the official secrets act.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    It's up on the ICTSA website so I'm hardly breaking the official secrets act.

    Bit late now anyway..Unless someone has faked an entire act?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    The Hoovers done it for me. You cannot own anything over 900w now. REALLY. Hoovers. In all that is happening in our world and they think hoovers are the way


    For me it was the CFL light bulb. Force people to buy a lightbulb filled with one of the most toxic substances to man.Mercury.Break one of those,well evacuate the house and get an NBC crew it clean up.Where before a dustpan &broom would sufice if you broke a plain old filament bulb..
    Same with the CPC drivers course
    .

    What dat??

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    An Ri rua wrote: »
    Hopefully it's not a civil servant or a Garda source as that would be illegal which would make this thread closable.

    And you know what they say about back seat moderation ..................



    ................... don't.


    If you see a problem report it and let a Mod deal with it.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,722 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Typical of the government to sneak this out when the Dail etc. is shut on a weekend in August


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    It doesn't matter if they done it this week, next week, or next year. It was coming, without a doubt. They had to.

    Some people, again not here, are still under the impression this is an Irish initiative done without any consultation. It's not.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    NARGC on FB are running around like headless chickens on this issue!"Came out of the blue"and they are planning a "robust response"

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Why haven't you informed them it wasn't "dropped on them", but more accurately they sleep through the last three years of this being drafted at European level?
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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭oldgit1897


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    NARGC on FB are running around like headless chickens on this issue!"Came out of the blue"and they are planning a "robust response"

    Bit late now, its done and dusted, signed and in the filing cabinet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    Why haven't you informed them it wasn't "dropped on them", but more accurately they sleep through the last three years of this being drafted at European level?

    Mentioned that their former leader organised a meeting with Marian Harkin MEP at a hotel in Athlone to discuss thid with Irish gunowners (all of about a dozen showed up)when this was going down in Europe 5 years ago...

    NARGC has been utterly blindsided by this,and that comes of an over reliance on FACE in Brussels to inform and deal with things for these minority groups.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    An Ri rua wrote: »
    Hopefully it's not a civil servant or a Garda source as that would be illegal which would make this thread closable.

    If it's a signed statutory instrument transposing an EU directive it's already long in the public domain and nobody broke any rules.

    And still the one and only big question remains. How is this going to provide any additional protection from terrorist and criminal firearms ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭Mississippi.


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    NARGC on FB are running around like headless chickens on this issue!"Came out of the blue"and they are planning a "robust response"

    I tried to talk to them about this at the tent at the ploughing this past two years and they assured me that they were on top of the situation completely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Its going to get intresting.Estimates between 20 to 50 such converted rifle owners are up the creek now on this ban.This is why the EU left a grandfather option in the directive that the Govt has ignored ...At their peril.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Cass wrote: »
    Why haven't you informed them it wasn't "dropped on them", but more accurately they sleep through the last three years of this being drafted at European level?

    Mentioned that their former leader organised a meeting with Marian Harkin MEP at a hotel in Athlone to discuss thid with Irish gunowners (all of about a dozen showed up)when this was going down in Europe 5 years ago...

    NARGC has been utterly blindsided by this,and that comes of an over reliance on FACE in Brussels to inform and deal with things for these minority groups.

    I'd say it's not just the NARGC so has the ICTSA, Countryside Ireland and the others, we weren't exactly reading on there websites how we should be preparing for this. I'm excusing getting caught with there trousers down, but it looks like all the major players were caught napping or at least they thought they had a bit of time. It appears quite rushed and I'm asking if the Brexit **** up didnt Speed this up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,270 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    https://www.ictsa.ie/custom/public/files/si-no.-420-of-2019.pdf

    When they say a "Essential component" , if I buy , say a bolt handle for a 10/22 - it must be engraved?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I'd say it's not just the NARGC .........................................., but it looks like all the major players were caught napping or at least they thought they had a bit of time.
    No one, at least not me, is blaming the NARGC for this or any other group for that matter.

    The comments above are in direct response to the NARGC statement that this was "dropped on them" and they are preparing a "robust" rebuttal.

    This was not dropped on anyone. Its been coming for years. If they [NARGC] were expecting consultation before any SI or amendment to the act was drafted then perhaps a case can be made for being caught off guard, but totally unaware is a little hard to believe because it implies no knowledge of what has been going on for the last 3-4 years or an incompetence in being able to deal with it.

    Again this is not about the NARGC or any other group. FRankly they couldn't have done much if anything to stop this.

    For me it only highlights the need for ALL groups to jeep their members informed. For years i've read people saying they're not into politics and have no interest in anything other than shooting. Well this shows why everyone should at the very least have a basic understanding of what is happening. The head in the sand approach doesn't work.
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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Chiparus wrote: »
    https://www.ictsa.ie/custom/public/files/si-no.-420-of-2019.pdf

    When they say a "Essential component" , if I buy , say a bolt handle for a 10/22 - it must be engraved?

    If its imported directly from outside the EU into the state (Ireland). Then yes.

    This raises the question of essential component. Is a bolt handle essential to the working of a firearm? Like a stock. I wouldn't class it as an essential component because it can be used without a stock, but the law says it's a component part.

    The SI is very poorly worded, overly vague, and leaves far to much ambiguity. The other side of it all is enforcement.

    I won't pretend to understand stop and search laws, but if you're in your car can any Garda stop you, search your vehicle and if they find a violation of this new SI will they notice it?

    This leads onto to just cause for stopping you and wanting to search your car/vehicle. I don't believe, although i'm not batting a 1,000 lately, that random stop and searches can be carried out without due cause.

    Same with your home. The CPO can call out, but can they perform checks of all homes with firearms. Will AGS "regular"members be assigned this and can they do it both physically and legally?

    Then in the field. Rangers have certain powers under the wildlife act but does that extend to the same powers as AGS in this situation or will AGS be carrying out checks in the field.

    I'm not for one second condoning breaking the law, nothing of the sort, but rather pointing out how more laws without proper enforcement of the current ones may be the most futile thing i've seen.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    I would consider myself reasonably well informed and I was unaware of the implications of the directive and the SI until yesterday.
    Those at the top of our associations are volunteers not paid professionals.I am not defending them just pointing this out. I have seen the Facebook posts and yes there is an element of rabbit in the spotlights about the response.
    What needs to be done now is to formulate a workable interpretation of the SI.
    Clearly all gun parts cannot be marked its not workable neither should someone going hunting with a belt of 25 shells have to have a lockable box with them.
    Commonsense is required but there is not a great history of that in relation to firearms law in this country.


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