Nora Quoirin. [Read mod note in post #1 - updated 14/08]

fits

I think if the parents say she has been abducted that they should be listened to and that investigated thoroughly.

dixiefly

I think we can all be clever in hindsight.

The sleeping arrangements were probably similar to that at home or that utilized on previous holidays.

One think different that night was that it was the first night over in Malaysia and the family could have been very tired and sleeping heavily after the long journey and may not have heard Nora getting up or any activity around the house.

We don’t have children with special needs or a disability so I would not have been party to the type of thought processes a family with such a kid would go through in planning a holiday.

It could be a balancing of constant supervision with an allowance to let the kid have some space themselves and allowing the parents space themselves. So I would never criticize the parents without a complete context.

My perception is that they were dedicated parents but they will be wracked with what-ifs and guilt.

Finding it very hard to see a circumstance in which she will be found alive at this stage.

fits

eviltwin wrote: »

What are the nature of Noras special needs? Are they developmental, physical? I have 2 children with special needs and I'm a careful parent who tries to predict and prempt everything where possible but I've had my kids panic and get lost. It can happen to anyone

I forget the term but it was in one statement. She has a small brain and limited language skills in English and French. Doesn’t understand money and basic reading skills.

dixiefly

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Don't think it's been disclosed, but it comes across as being developmental, but I could be wrong

I think it is more than developmental - also physical disability that would even more restrict her if she went into the jungle.

Also they surely know what footwear she could be wearing and that could impact on her ability to go any distance.

splinter65

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The Internets really is filled with arseholes!

Because of this posters posting history in particular his attacks on other distressed parents in other threads some of us have decided not to respond further to, or quote or otherwise engage with this poster.
As tempting as it is to lash back at him, he is very persistent in his trolling, waiting sometimes days at a time to come back with more poison.
If everyone ignored him he’d have no reason to continue.

iamwhoiam

Nora has holoprosencephaly . In Noras case it effects her fine motor skills and she has learning difficulties


https://www.genome.gov/Genetic-Disorders/Holoprosencephaly

Hamsterchops

fits wrote: »

I think if the parents say she has been abducted that they should be listened to and that investigated thoroughly.

...but in the middle of the rain forest and so shortly after arriving?

Sounds implausible without the full facts. How many paths too & from the villa? How many roads in & out? Tyre tracks, foot prints, finger prints, etc etc etc .....echoes of Maddie.

dudara

splinter65 wrote: »

Because of this posters posting history in particular his attacks on other distressed parents in other threads some of us have decided not to respond further to, or quote or otherwise engage with this poster.
As tempting as it is to lash back at him, he is very persistent in his trolling, waiting sometimes days at a time to come back with more poison.
If everyone ignored him he’d have no reason to continue.

That’s enough. I have asked kidchameleon to desist, and in the interests of fairness, I am also asking other posters to lay off the trolling comments. They are off topic. Use Report Post, do not comment in thread.

dudara

Muahahaha

fits wrote: »

I think if the parents say she has been abducted that they should be listened to and that investigated thoroughly.

Definitely this. They are saying Nora wandering off is completely out of character, I took that to mean that it has never happened before. Now its completely possible that she got spooked by a new environment and all the different night time noises of the jungle outside her window and she wandered off alone and had an accident.

But to not be found 8 days later suggests either the search has not been thorough or there is something more sinister afoot. The chances of abduction are remote compared to her just wandering off and having an accident but the more days that pass without her being found the more likely it becomes that it was an abduction.

kanadams123

Another day gone. If she is still out there somewhere its getting really worrying at this stage of chance of survival. I won't lose out on hope yet though.

jackboy

fits wrote: »

I think if the parents say she has been abducted that they should be listened to and that investigated thoroughly.

From the bits I have heard they have investigated that possibility (checked for fingerprints, checked for footprints, checked phones of staff). As they have found no evidence of an abduction there is little else they could do on that front.

The wandering into the jungle theory is more plausible than abduction so it is sensible to focus most of the police resources in that direction. It gives the child the best chance of being rescued.

What more can police do than to follow the evidence.

James Bond Junior

There is a go fund me page set up to help find Nora. It is still £14000 off its goal, I think donations are more than warranted.

I had a student with needs very, very similar to Nora's and they were the sweetest, nicest little person. Reading Nora's mother's description of her daughter was like reading a description of my pupil. My heart breaks for her and the thought of what she may be enduring not to mention what her poor family are going through.

uck51js9zml2yt

jackboy wrote: »

What more can police do than to follow the evidence.

They should read the expert opinion of boards users !!

But seriously, whether she was abducted or wandered off, the chances of being found are slim and the chances of being alive are less.

She just won't have had the skills to survive on her own. The big question is how much longer they search?

dixiefly

Harvey Nutritious Shrewdness wrote: »

They should read the expert opinion of boards users !!

But seriously, whether she was abducted or wandered off, the chances of being found are slim and the chances of being alive are less.

She just won't have had the skills to survive on her own. The big question is how much longer they search?

Really hoping for a breakthrough but it is looking like they will be moving to the next phase oF decisions on resources dedicated to the search, what the family do, do they try to employ other help in the search, when they go home - all will be so traumatic for the family.

fits

jackboy wrote: »

What more can police do than to follow the evidence.

There isn’t much evidence for anything. But if Nora’s parents say that her wandering into the jungle alone in the middle of the night is unlikely then they should be listened to. Let’s face it the jungle is not an attractive place to go at nighttime particularly if unfamiliar with it.

mattser

Do not discuss mod instruction in thread. Please contact a mod directly or use the Help Desk.

dudara

iamwhoiam

fits wrote: »

There isn’t much evidence for anything. But if Nora’s parents say that her wandering into the jungle alone in the middle of the night is unlikely then they should be listened to. Let’s face it the jungle is not an attractive place to go at nighttime particularly if unfamiliar with it.

And a shy and nervous child is unlikely to go into an inhospitable jungle at night
Plus she probably had no shoes on and it can’t be easy underfoot

FrancieBrady

iamwhoiam wrote: »

And a shy and nervous child is unlikely to go into an inhospitable jungle at night
Plus she probably had no shoes on and it can’t be easy underfoot

But if you don't know or cannot figure out the way back, you can go deeper into it.
I presume a child like Nora, would not know that it is 'inhospitable' either or be able to conceptualise the dangers.

They have to cover a large range of bases here. A child acting irrationally, an abduction, and the awful thought - that somebody did something bad and has covered it up.

KM792

Apparently they consulted with local villagers who would be very familiar with the Forrest,they helped on two previous occasions when 2 people from the resort got lost and they were found within 24 hours.
They said she is not there and to broaden the search beyond the Forrest.She was in her underwear with no shoes anyway and would not get far in that terrain.
What would be the significance of the sniffer dogs losing the scent after 100m..she was put in a car??

iamwhoiam

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But if you don't know or cannot figure out the way back, you can go deeper into it.
I presume a child like Nora, would not know that it is 'inhospitable' either or be able to conceptualise the dangers.

They have to cover a large range of bases here. A child acting irrationally, an abduction, and the awful thought - that somebody did something bad and has covered it up.

In fairness you dont have to "know " its inhospitable to be afraid of a dark deep jungle .

FrancieBrady

iamwhoiam wrote: »

In fairness you dont have to "know " its inhospitable to be afraid of a dark deep jungle .

I have a family member in his 50's like Nora and he simply wouldn't have the facility to get himself out of a situation like that, if he did wander off.
He could turn back or he could just keep going.

iamwhoiam

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have a family member in his 50's like Nora and he simply wouldn't have the facility to get himself out of a situation like that, if he did wander off.
He could turn back or he could just keep going.

Apparently its not easy to keep going , its rough, tough terrain ,.They were using machetes to get through it

N365

Very unusual. Something not sitting right with this. Highly unlikely she was abducted as there is no evidence that she was. How far can a child get in dense forest at night (not very far I would imagine) . I wonder how long before police return to the hotel to search again?

fits

fits wrote: »

There isn’t much evidence for anything. But if Nora’s parents say that her wandering into the jungle alone in the middle of the night is unlikely then they should be listened to. Let’s face it the jungle is not an attractive place to go at nighttime particularly if unfamiliar with it.

I'd agree. The parents know their daughter best. While it's great that 100's of people are searching the vicinity to ensure that she isn't there, I would hope that the police behind the scenes, are also exploring other avenues, regardless of whether they admit it publicly or not.

abduction though, does seem harder to believe on one hand- given they had just arrived and siblings all sleeping together-- except for the fact that the tracker dogs lost her scent 100 yards from the apartment- that part is worrying.



interesting also how New Zealand govt advises their citizens about travelling to Malaysia:

https://www.safetravel.govt.nz/malaysia


"Avoid non-essential travel to coastal areas of eastern Sabah (from Kudat to Tawau, including Sandakan, Lahad Datu, Kunak and Semporna, including the offshore islands and dive sites) due to the risk of kidnapping'


People kidnaped in the past have been adult tourists though, held for ransoms.

Strazdas

KM792 wrote: »

Apparently they consulted with local villagers who would be very familiar with the Forrest,they helped on two previous occasions when 2 people from the resort got lost and they were found within 24 hours.
They said she is not there and to broaden the search beyond the Forrest.She was in her underwear with no shoes anyway and would not get far in that terrain.
What would be the significance of the sniffer dogs losing the scent after 100m..she was put in a car??

I must say it's baffling that they can't find a body or Nora alive after 8 days of searching. She can't have gotten far into the forest at all.

The abduction theory is possible but someone being abducted from their bedroom in a remote resort seems highly unusual.

FrancieBrady

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Apparently its not easy to keep going , its rough, tough terrain ,.They were using machetes to get through it

Either she went on her own, or somebody took her deeper into the jungle.

They are 'searching' based on those two possibilities, I presume.

Strazdas

N365 wrote: »

Very unusual. Something not sitting right with this. Highly unlikely she was abducted as there is no evidence that she was. How far can a child get in dense forest at night (not very far I would imagine) . I wonder how long before police return to the hotel to search again?

I'm struggling with the abduction theory. People do get snatched by strangers (extremely rare thankfully) such as the Jastine Valdez case last year, but the idea of an abductor making their way to a place where people are sleeping in the off chance of kidnapping someone seems very unusual.

FrancieBrady

Strazdas wrote: »

I'm struggling with the abduction theory. People do get snatched by strangers (extremely rare thankfully) such as the Jastine Valdez case last year, but the idea of an abductor making their way to a place where people are sleeping in the off chance of kidnapping someone seems very unusual.

It could also be something similar to the Michela Harte case, a burglary gone wrong and the burglar maybe covering it up.

The fact is, we simply don't know and neither do those searching, so everything has to be covered.

The Black Oil

Terrible situation for her family. You'd imagine if she went into the jungle she could easily have fallen and hit her head or something like that. Hope they get news soon.

Strazdas

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It could also be something similar to the Michela Harte case, a burglary gone wrong and the burglar maybe covering it up.

The fact is, we simply don't know and neither do those searching, so everything has to be covered.

I could definitely believe someone who actually works at the resort being responsible in some way for Nora's disappearance, that one would make make more sense compared to the stranger theory.