Nora Quoirin. [Read mod note in post #1 - updated 14/08]

Strazdas

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a possibility...nothing more.

The Michaela Harte case was an inside job of course : members of staff stealing from her hotel room.

It's plausible that a staff member could be in some way responsible for Nora's disappearance. I'd find the idea of a stranger showing up at the place where she was sleeping and abducting her harder to believe.

Kidchameleon

N365 wrote: »

Exactly. So why suggest it could have been burglary?

If it was a burglary gone wrong, there may be no evidence at all. Burglars use gloves etc. to help prevent fingerprint evidence. Add to that the fact that staff at the resort could have keys for the house, meaning there would be no signs of a break-in. Even if it was not staff, the fact that it is a tourist property means someone could easily have spare keys cut.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

interesting also how New Zealand govt advises their citizens about travelling to Malaysia:

https://www.safetravel.govt.nz/malaysia


"Avoid non-essential travel to coastal areas of eastern Sabah (from Kudat to Tawau, including Sandakan, Lahad Datu, Kunak and Semporna, including the offshore islands and dive sites) due to the risk of kidnapping'


People kidnaped in the past have been adult tourists though, held for ransoms.

Just on this-Malaysia is essentially two countries separated by the South China Sea. The Sabah area where kidnappings have taken place is over 2,000km away from peninsular Malaysia where Nora and her family are located.

The latest Indo article on the case says that Nora had been sleeping upstairs but that the open window (with the unidentified fingerprint) was in the living room downstairs. It also says that she has problems with her balance and walking alone would be difficult for her.

N365

Kidchameleon wrote: »

If it was a burglary gone wrong, there may be no evidence at all. Burglars use gloves etc. to help prevent fingerprint evidence. Add to that the fact that staff at the resort could have keys for the house, meaning there would be no signs of a break-in. Even if it was not staff, the fact that it is a tourist property means someone could easily have spare keys cut.

A burglar that breaks in leaving no evidence, doesn’t steal anything so changes his mind and tip toes upstairs and takes girl from bed without waking her sisters sleeping in the same room, carries her downstairs out the window and into the jungle leaving no trace.Ok.

FrancieBrady

N365 wrote: »

A burglar that breaks in leaving no evidence, doesn’t steal anything so changes his mind and tip toes upstairs and takes girl from bed without waking her sisters sleeping in the same room, carries her downstairs out the window and into the jungle leaving no trace.Ok.

You are assuming that is what happened, when nobody knows what happened in the house.

Witchie

Deleted User wrote: »

interesting also how New Zealand govt advises their citizens about travelling to Malaysia:

https://www.safetravel.govt.nz/malaysia


"Avoid non-essential travel to coastal areas of eastern Sabah (from Kudat to Tawau, including Sandakan, Lahad Datu, Kunak and Semporna, including the offshore islands and dive sites) due to the risk of kidnapping'


People kidnaped in the past have been adult tourists though, held for ransoms.

Sabah is on the island of Borneo and is less developed and poorer than the mainland so it is like comparing apples and oranges. I have lived in Kuala Lumpur for 2 years now and its the safest I have ever felt in a city. Yes its not perfect and things happen but by no means is it a dangerous place.

Strazdas wrote: »

The Michaela Harte case was an inside job of course : members of staff stealing from her hotel room.

It's plausible that a staff member could be in some way responsible for Nora's disappearance. I'd find the idea of a stranger showing up at the place where she was sleeping and abducting her harder to believe.

This is what I am thinking. If you look at a map of the resort, there are little roads and laneways leading to the cottages. It is very feasible (depending of course on where her scent ended) that she was made walk from the house and placed in a car parked on one of those lanes, 100m away from her room.

N365

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are assuming that is what happened, when nobody knows what happened in the house.

I’m not assuming that that happened. I’m saying the opposite. For ****s sake.

chicorytip

It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that, having left her room through the window and wandered out, she may have been attacked, killed and her body secreted by a wild animal, a cat or ape maybe. There are a large variety of such in Malaysia generally. A snake attack may also be possible.

Spon Farmer

Merkin wrote: »

I find this case absolutely horrific. The child’s parents are adamant that she has been abducted, and obviously knowing her and her limitations better than anyone, they simply can’t fathom that she could do such a thing. Apparently she had mobility as well as learning difficulties.

I’d be fearful that the Malaysian authorities are doing all the can to protect the country’s reputation as a safe place given their economic dependency on tourism. They are at pains to rule out any foul play so one would wonder if all these resources being used to search a jungle is in fact a huge waste of time when all avenues should have been explored from the onset. They seemed to discount any criminal involvement very quickly which struck me as a little defensive.

I think it unlikely at this juncture that the poor little girl will suddenly appear safe and well but I do hope, for their sake, that they do find out what happened to her. It’s every parents’ worst nightmare.

My first thoughts about were not that the Malaysian olive were trying to protective tourism industry by saying no foul play but that maybe they didn't understand or take seriously the child's condition. It could make all the difference in finding her.

It might be possible that she was so tired and disoriented that she left the room, maybe even by the window, but after a week long search they'd surely have found her by now. How far could she actually get?

Finding no evidence of foul play just means that Nora could have be taken without much difficulty.

And yet weren't they only in the country a few hours. and went straight to bed when they got to the resort? How was she identified as a target so quickly?

Spon Farmer

Strazdas wrote: »

The Michaela Harte case was an inside job of course : members of staff stealing from her hotel room.

It's plausible that a staff member could be in some way responsible for Nora's disappearance. I'd find the idea of a stranger showing up at the place where she was sleeping and abducting her harder to believe.

Maybe the family were followed from the airport?

FrancieBrady

N365 wrote: »

I’m not assuming that that happened. I’m saying the opposite. For ****s sake.

But you have no idea what happened in the house and are ruling out a burglary gone wrong.

Kidchameleon

N365 wrote: »

A burglar that breaks in leaving no evidence, doesn’t steal anything so changes his mind and tip toes upstairs and takes girl from bed without waking her sisters sleeping in the same room, carries her downstairs out the window and into the jungle leaving no trace.Ok.

FWIW, I dont think that is what happened either. I was merely pointing out that a burglary does not necessarily mean there is 100% chance of forensic evidence being left behind.

mynamejeff

Mother is Northern Irish and the father is french i think ?

why did we send a member of the Gardai out there ? why not PSNI ?

Child might have a Irish passport but no real connection to Ireland

iamwhoiam

mynamejeff wrote: »

Mother is Northern Irish and the father is french i think ?

why did we send a member of the Gardai out there ? why not PSNI ?

Child might have a Irish passport but no real connection to Ireland

Nora is an Irish citizen , we look after our own and its great to see a Garda liason officer go out there

Spon Farmer

mynamejeff wrote: »

Mother is Northern Irish and the father is french i think ?

why did we send a member of the Gardai out there ? why not PSNI ?

Child might have a Irish passport but no real connection to Ireland

I didn't know a Guard had been sent out. Don't the family live in London? I assumed Scotland Yard had sent people?

N365

mynamejeff wrote: »

Mother is Northern Irish and the father is french i think ?

why did we send a member of the Gardai out there ? why not PSNI ?

Child might have a Irish passport but no real connection to Ireland

I believe Scotland Yard are helping

Portsalon

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Nora is an Irish citizen , we look after our own and its great to see a Garda liason officer go out there

The same reasoning applies to that brainless ISIS bride and her innocent child, but no garda has been sent out to help them. It's a PR stunt by Charlie Flanagan and/or Drew Harris and should be called out for what it is.

iamwhoiam

Portsalon wrote: »

The same reasoning applies to that brainless ISIS bride and her innocent child, but no garda has been sent out to help them. It's a PR stunt by Charlie Flanagan and/or Drew Harris and should be called out for what it is.

So you see no difference between the two cases at all ? Really ?

Spon Farmer

Portsalon wrote: »

The same reasoning applies to that brainless ISIS bride and her innocent child, but no garda has been sent out to help them. It's a PR stunt by Charlie Flanagan and/or Drew Harris and should be called out for what it is.

If the Guard can be of some support to the family then it doesn't matter if it is a stunt.

However, it should be Scotland Yard. The family live in London and Scotland Yard detectives would have more influence if they thought the local authorities weren't following the right path. I'm not disparaging the Guards, just "Scotland Yard" is well known around the world.

splinter65

Portsalon wrote: »

The same reasoning applies to that brainless ISIS bride and her innocent child, but no garda has been sent out to help them. It's a PR stunt by Charlie Flanagan and/or Drew Harris and should be called out for what it is.

75% of the family in kuala lumpar are traveling on Irish passports. They have a lot of maternal connections on this island. It doesn’t matter where they live. They have found themselves entirely blamelessly in a tragic situation.If there’s anything the Irish state can do to help them then we are bound to do it.
Ms Smith went to extraordinary lengths to deliberately put herself and her child in extraordinary danger with absolutely no reason or excuse to do so and is a potential security risk to innocent Irish people if we give her consular help.
There’s no comparison.

Portsalon

iamwhoiam wrote: »

So you see no difference between the two cases at all ? Really ?

I can't recall writing that, but then perhaps you're one of those very clever people who can read other people's minds from miles away - or think that they can.

iamwhoiam

Portsalon wrote: »

I can't recall writing that, but then perhaps you're one of those very clever people who can read other people's minds from miles away - or think that they can.

Whatever

Spon Farmer

Folks, I know the family are not going to be reading this but can we not do the petty squabbling?

A child is missing and a family is in bits. Put the horse**** aside for this thread, please.

expectationlost

is that photo of her at the waterfall in maylasia?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Folks, I know the family are not going to be reading this but can we not do the petty squabbling?

A child is missing and a family is in bits. Put the horse**** aside for this thread, please.

Sorry, but the ridiculous speculation as to what may have happened, from many including yourself, is more in need of taming to be perfectly honest.

SEPT 23 1989

I don’t think the family would care if the devil himself turned up if it meant that the child was found safe

Spanish Eyes

Matias Moldy Jaguar wrote: »

Sorry, but the ridiculous speculation as to what may have happened, from many including yourself, is more in need of taming to be perfectly honest.

Now now. That's what the mods are here for

When there is a vacuum of information of course people will speculate, it's human nature.

I have been the recipient of many a castigation on here for some of my posts. But I can take it.

That's what discussion fora are all about really. Mods will sort out the loony toons.

Everyone hopes the girl is found safe and well. It is the HOW she disappeared with no trace is what is causing the speculation. That's normal.

N365

expectationlost wrote: »

is that photo of her at the waterfall in maylasia?

This one?

votecounts

Matias Moldy Jaguar wrote: »

Sorry, but the ridiculous speculation as to what may have happened, from many including yourself, is more in need of taming to be perfectly honest.

Was about to say this myself, think about it this way would you like it if people were to speculate this was if she were your daughter. sister, etc. on a public forum

Spanish Eyes

votecounts wrote: »

Was about to say this myself, think about it this way would you like it if people were to speculate this was if she were your daughter. sister, etc. on a public forum

I am sure anyone in the family's situation would hope that word gets out on social media big time. It is often marred by trolls that is true, but sometimes the publicity is worth it. If I were in that situation I wouldn't care what was said, but it just might lead to something positive.

There cannot be many now who don't realise that cases such as this will be discussed online anymore. There is no protection. But sometimes publicity of whatever hue can help. And people really do want a good outcome to this.

iamwhoiam

I must say I see no real harm in discussing the terrain and the probability of Nora being too far into the jungle . A case like this will always bring discussion and people thoughts on it
The vast majority of posters wish Nora is found very soon and have huge sympathy for her family

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

Just on this-Malaysia is essentially two countries separated by the South China Sea. The Sabah area where kidnappings have taken place is over 2,000km away from peninsular Malaysia where Nora and her family are located.

The latest Indo article on the case says that Nora had been sleeping upstairs but that the open window (with the unidentified fingerprint) was in the living room downstairs. It also says that she has problems with her balance and walking alone would be difficult for her.

The warning on the website is for Malaysia in general, for various different reasons. It's not as safe a country as might be portrayed- and I'm not talking just kidnapping either or in just one area.

There's also a lot of police corruption that's currently and previously under investigation. There's one thing I'm certain of- if the police believe something other than "wandering off" is the reason for this poor girls disappearance, they'll never admit it.

BarryD2

N365 wrote: »

I wonder how long before police return to the hotel to search again?

Haven't heard this aspect reported much. You'd hope that they've thoroughly searched every part of the resort and interviewed anyone who was staying/ working there.

Spanish Eyes

BarryD2 wrote: »

Haven't heard this aspect reported much. You'd hope that they've thoroughly searched every part of the resort and interviewed anyone who was staying/ working there.

I would imagine/hope that parents and siblings did that search etc. at first discovery of her disappearance. She could be hiding somewhere.

Very hopefully she is. And hopefully has a water source. Children can just go and do this, but not for 7 days admittedly.

Let us hope she is found safe and well. Live in hope.

N365

BarryD2 wrote: »

Haven't heard this aspect reported much. You'd hope that they've thoroughly searched every part of the resort and interviewed anyone who was staying/ working there.

If the family were telling the police that they believe she was abducted then they may not have focused their efforts much within the immediate vicinity.

Reati

splinter65 wrote: »

75% of the family in kuala lumpar are traveling on Irish passports. They have a lot of maternal connections on this island. It doesn’t matter where they live. They have found themselves entirely blamelessly in a tragic situation.If there’s anything the Irish state can do to help them then we are bound to do it.

Exactly. She is travelling as an Irish citizen with an Irish passport. She is entitled to/getting consular help from the Irish authorities. So therefore it makes perfect send a Garda out there, as they are the police force of the Irish authorities.

(Also, super anal I know but her name is Nóra not Nora. Her parents spell and refer to her as Nóra. And yes, they are different.)

Strazdas

Interesting snippet on RTE that two people a month get lost in the forest but are usually located within 48 hours. It's completely baffling how there is no trace of Nora with hundreds of people searching for her.

Spanish Eyes

OK, before the castigators and those giving out descend on me,

If you had a child with special needs, would you really go to the edge of the jungle/rain forest with him/her. There are so many other options.

I am not judging here. But I have no doubt that others will disagree. That's fine. Just asking.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If you had a child with special needs, would you really go to the edge of the jungle/rain forest with him/her. There are so many other options.

.

Yes I hear Tayto Park can be a blast at halloween

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/several-injured-tayto-park-accident-9107439

Or you could head to Seville- that's in Europe - that should be OK, right?

https://news.sky.com/story/major-scenes-of-panic-after-fairground-ride-accident-injures-28-11737713

Or you could just get a bouncy castle in your own back garden

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/fairground-workers-jailed-over-entirely-preventable-bouncy-castle-death-1.3531980


Like, WTF are you on and what exactly is your point? You're obviously out to get the parents of this child - have you no shame? They brought their child on a holiday of a lifetime- to expand her experiences and add valuable memories to her troubled life- and you're pointing the blame at her disappearance on them?

Shame on you, yet again.

iamwhoiam

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

OK, before the castigators and those giving out descend on me,

If you had a child with special needs, would you really go to the edge of the jungle/rain forest with him/her. There are so many other options.

I am not judging here. But I have no doubt that others will disagree. That's fine. Just asking.

Every child is different and that goes for every child with special needs too
My thoughts would be that no one knows a child as well as their own family and so I would be very much of the opinion that their decision is what is important for their child
Basically it is none of our business

N365

Strazdas wrote: »

Interesting snippet on RTE that two people a month get lost in the forest but are usually located within 48 hours. It's completely baffling how there is no trace of Nora with hundreds of people searching for her.

If the police and soldiers are struggling to negotiate the jungle how could a child do it. It’s the reason I believe that the complex is where they will end up focusing on in the end.

fits

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

OK, before the castigators and those giving out descend on me,

If you had a child with special needs, would you really go to the edge of the jungle/rain forest with him/her. There are so many other options.

I am not judging here. But I have no doubt that others will disagree. That's fine. Just asking.

Every child is different. I do have a child with special needs and I’d have no issue with bringing him to Malaysia at all. I’ve been there. The flight would be the most difficult part for us.

BarryD2

N365 wrote: »

If the family were telling the police that they believe she was abducted then they may not have focused their efforts much within the immediate vicinity.

There has been lots of media attention here on jungle searches, loudspeakers in the forest and local trackers etc etc. You just hope that the authorities there have looked over every inch of the actual residential area...

Knine

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

OK, before the castigators and those giving out descend on me,

If you had a child with special needs, would you really go to the edge of the jungle/rain forest with him/her. There are so many other options.

I am not judging here. But I have no doubt that others will disagree. That's fine. Just asking.

Yeah I would. Same as any other child & I do have a child with very complex care needs.

Strazdas

N365 wrote: »

If the police and soldiers are struggling to negotiate the jungle how could a child do it. It’s the reason I believe that the complex is where they will end up focusing on in the end.

I would imagine Nora would be nowhere near strong enough to trek miles into the rain forest. She sounds from the family's description like a slight girl and not very fit.

Spon Farmer

BarryD2 wrote: »

There has been lots of media attention here on jungle searches, loudspeakers in the forest and local trackers etc etc. You just hope that the authorities there have looked over every inch of the actual residential area...

Not just there but the flight they arrived on, the airport, and anyplace they've been since arriving in the country - all are places were someone could have targeted the family.

I'm not a policeman or a detective but when I comes to a child I would take no chances and treat it as both a child getting lost and an abduction. Get experts in for each.

Does anyone know when they started using the loudspeakers? Could the searchers have frightened her into going further away? yes that make sense?

I also saw one news site report that villagers remember hearing a truck in the very early hours.

It is all so horrible.

Spanish Eyes

Fair enough and thanks for your replies.

I have a nephew with complex needs. He is a darling but loves places where he can see his parents/siblings all the time. He needs to be within sight all the time.

Just saying. People can tailor their trips according to their kids needs.

Spon Farmer

An anonymous donor has offered to fund a reward.

Malaysian police and other advisors apparently want the family to accept it.

https://extra.ie/2019/08/11/news/irish-news/nora-quoirin-donor-reward

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just saying. People can tailor their trips according to their kids needs.

As I'm sure the parents of this girl did- but you obviously don't think so.

Spon Farmer

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Fair enough and thanks for your replies.

I have a nephew with complex needs. He is a darling but loves places where he can see his parents/siblings all the time. He needs to be within sight all the time.

Just saying. People can tailor their trips according to their kids needs.

All parents do (or are supposed to) tailor holidays to their kids regardless of special needs.

There is no reason to think the Quoirin's did not do so for al their kids. You cannot anticipate everything and no one expects something like this to happen.