The glorious 12th

Sofiztikated

RobMc59 wrote: »

I watched a BBC programme about Ulster language/dialects and couldn't understand it-I had been under the impression it was similar to Scottish dialect but it seems unique-I have no interest in arguing about either language,although do find it strange those most vocal in the defence of Irish language can't speak it.

I'm not gay, but voted for equal rights in respect of gay marriage.

I'm a bloke, not a uterus in sight, but voted to remove the limit to abortion access in Ireland.

I might not have a great grasp of Irish, but why not fight to allow those that want to/can speak it.

RobMc59

Sofiztikated wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

I watched a BBC programme about Ulster language/dialects and couldn't understand it-I had been under the impression it was similar to Scottish dialect but it seems unique-I have no interest in arguing about either language,although do find it strange those most vocal in the defence of Irish language can't speak it.

I'm not gay, but voted for equal rights in respect of gay marriage.

I'm a bloke, not a uterus in sight, but voted to remove the limit to abortion access in Ireland.

I might not have a great grasp of Irish, but why not fight to allow those that want to/can speak it.

Fair comment.

realitykeeper

King Billy was gay so next time the apprentice boys march, maybe the lgbtlmno people could tag along. Just joking about the last part.

citytillidie

So the band had the para emblem all summer but the apprentice boys did not know about it, yeah right

FrancieBrady

realitykeeper wrote: »

King Billy was gay so next time the apprentice boys march, maybe the lgbtlmno people could tag along. Just joking about the last part.

The most laughable paradox about King Billy is that he'd be turning in his grave if he seen the Orange Order he spawned.
Southern society today has more in common with Billy than that sectarian mob. He was fighting for civil and religious liberty for all.

janfebmar

realitykeeper wrote: »

King Billy was gay so next time the apprentice boys march, maybe the lgbtlmno people could tag along..

He was not gay according to his wife Mary, or according to his Mistress Elizabeth Villiers. Of course some of his enemies say he was gay. What else would you expect them to say?

downcow

citytillidie wrote: »

So the band had the para emblem all summer but the apprentice boys did not know about it, yeah right

I find the intransigence and bigotry on here by many quite simply astounding.
The focus by some on a tiny BA emblem, which is to show support for the campaign in opposition to singling out one private for a murder charge that has no hope of succeeding and to appease one small group of victims, is simple sectarian bigotry. In the SAME WEEK AS the republican leadership was involved in and defending :
1) MEP Dancing in the street in ira t shirt on the spot a 5month old Protestant baby was murdered by the ira
2) MEP on a platform in a town, where Protestants had listened to the rallying call of chuckie ar la while they were ethnically cleansed, she with her fist in the air shouting chuckie ar la three times to cheers of the crowd
3) The closing concert at the ‘so-called’ crosscummity west Belfast festival, funded by public money, again invited along wolf tonnes and again had ira chanting and anti unionist songs.
And it’s only a couple of weeks since the Tyrone Senior GAA team were filmed shout ira at a small band containing mainly young girls.

You’s need to take off the sectarian spectacles and get a bit of reality in your lives. The cases above also involve mainly your republican ‘ambassadors’. What an example.

But sure let us all focus on a 3 inches emblem on a bands slieve. To mention anything else would be whataboutery SAD

gwalk

so nothing has changed then in this thread...

orange side "but but but themuns over there"

downcow

gwalk wrote: »

so nothing has changed then in this thread...

orange side "but but but themuns over there"

Nonsense gwalk. I am simply pointing out your blind spots.
There is nothing to talk about on the orange side. All has been squeaky clean over the past weeks while the republicans have displayed in Technicolor their blatant hate for Protestants, unionists, brits.

I would honestly not have blinked or cared if one of the bands in the town where the prod baby was murdered had have had a 3 inch ira symbol on the slieve of their shirt (I guess they probably did). And not one unionist raised the antics of the MEP or her choice of t shirt.
You could learn a lot from unionist tolerance and confidence and stop taking microscopes to unionist culture

janfebmar

RobMc59 wrote: »

Do you think Bernadette Devlin would praise the BA for saving her and her family?-Highly unlikely given her well known opinion and stance.

She was a well known extremist Republican in the past, but yesterday she came out and said that anyone who would vote to join the free state would be mad in the head. She knows now, having been involved in Republican politics all her life, how sectarian many northern Republicans are and how much of a disaster a United Ireland would be.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

She was a well known extremist Republican in the past, but yesterday she came out and said that anyone who would vote to join the free state would be mad in the head. She knows now, having been involved in Republican politics all her life, how sectarian many northern Republicans are and how much of a disaster a United Ireland would be.

So she is 'good republican' now that she said something you can agree with.

BTW, Bernadette wants a quasi-communist state, which means the dissolution of your beloved UK too.

downcow

Sadly there is a lot of nasty sectarian attitudes towards the band scene.
If there are nationalists on here who genuinely want to understand the marching band scene and why it is so important to the unionist community you could watch this little series that is currently running on the bbc getting behind the scenes a bit of bands commotions, 12ths, etc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002tv3

It continues to grow and flourish and Gracie is correct that the OO numbers are on a long slow decrease (mind you they get a great boost every time republicans try to block them). The bands are clearly filling that gap.
Eg my family out of 6 siblings only one was in a band. Now out of 21 nephews and nieces age 12-30 13 are in various bands and not one has considered leaving. Indeed some of them have dragged parents into their bands

Have a watch with an open mind. May help you understand why I liken the scene to the gaa

citytillidie

downcow wrote: »

I find the intransigence and bigotry on here by many quite simply astounding.
The focus by some on a tiny BA emblem, which is to show support for the campaign in opposition to singling out one private for a murder charge that has no hope of succeeding and to appease one small group of victims, is simple sectarian bigotry. In the SAME WEEK AS the republican leadership was involved in and defending :
1) MEP Dancing in the street in ira t shirt on the spot a 5month old Protestant baby was murdered by the ira
2) MEP on a platform in a town, where Protestants had listened to the rallying call of chuckie ar la while they were ethnically cleansed, she with her fist in the air shouting chuckie ar la three times to cheers of the crowd
3) The closing concert at the ‘so-called’ crosscummity west Belfast festival, funded by public money, again invited along wolf tonnes and again had ira chanting and anti unionist songs.
And it’s only a couple of weeks since the Tyrone Senior GAA team were filmed shout ira at a small band containing mainly young girls.

You’s need to take off the sectarian spectacles and get a bit of reality in your lives. The cases above also involve mainly your republican ‘ambassadors’. What an example.

But sure let us all focus on a 3 inches emblem on a bands slieve. To mention anything else would be whataboutery SAD

I hope that you're including yourself in that. You will bring up MEP but not give their name. Refuse to use a name of a dead person, and not use the correct spelling of the Irish language but try to mock it the way Gregory Campbell has done.

Also the so called 1st minister Arlene Foster really has shown that she is full of double standards, she was right condemning the bonfire last week in New Lodge as a bile of hate that no one wants to see but very quiet on 11th bonfire's which were just as bad, with DUP party members enjoying them seeing them as Protestant culture.

Lots of public money is spent on the 12th and 11th. N.Ireland football fans were also filmed singing bad songs towards Catholics yet you are all quiet on that or see it as ok

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I find the intransigence and bigotry on here by many quite simply astounding.
The focus by some on a tiny BA emblem, which is to show support for the campaign in opposition to singling out one private for a murder charge that has no hope of succeeding and to appease one small group of victims, is simple sectarian bigotry. In the SAME WEEK AS the republican leadership was involved in and defending :
1) MEP Dancing in the street in ira t shirt on the spot a 5month old Protestant baby was murdered by the ira

You have to travel back 46 years to exploit a tragic victim of the conflict/war by getting upset about two women having a spontaneous dance????

2) MEP on a platform in a town, where Protestants had listened to the rallying call of chuckie ar la while they were ethnically cleansed, she with her fist in the air shouting chuckie ar la three times to cheers of the crowd

'Tiocfaidh ár lá' simply means 'Our Day Will Come' ...Our day will come when no Unionist disrespects our language to score cheap political points...for instance

3) The closing concert at the ‘so-called’ crosscummity west Belfast festival, funded by public money, again invited along wolf tonnes and again had ira chanting and anti unionist songs.

Nobody has a problem if you wish to partake in your culture downcow as long as you don't want to force it on others in a triumphalist way. IF EITHER DO THAT IT IS WRONG...which is what you are refusing to get here.
Your political reps had no problems taking part in events at that festival by the way.

gwalk

downcow wrote: »

Sadly there is a lot of nasty sectarian attitudes towards the band scene.
If there are nationalists on here who genuinely want to understand the marching band scene and why it is so important to the unionist community you could watch this little series that is currently running on the bbc getting behind the scenes a bit of bands commotions, 12ths, etc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002tv3

It continues to grow and flourish and Gracie is correct that the OO numbers are on a long slow decrease (mind you they get a great boost every time republicans try to block them). The bands are clearly filling that gap.
Eg my family out of 6 siblings only one was in a band. Now out of 21 nephews and nieces age 12-30 13 are in various bands and not one has considered leaving. Indeed some of them have dragged parents into their bands

Have a watch with an open mind. May help you understand why I liken the scene to the gaa

why not promote this one instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AMDl__eCsA&t=2805s

"Loyalists celebrating their culture on their yearly Orange festival. Contains violence and riotous behavior."

Scoundrel

downcow wrote: »

I find the intransigence and bigotry on here by many quite simply astounding.
The focus by some on a tiny BA emblem, which is to show support for the campaign in opposition to singling out one private for a murder charge that has no hope of succeeding and to appease one small group of victims, is simple sectarian bigotry. In the SAME WEEK AS the republican leadership was involved in and defending :
1) MEP Dancing in the street in ira t shirt on the spot a 5month old Protestant baby was murdered by the ira
2) MEP on a platform in a town, where Protestants had listened to the rallying call of chuckie ar la while they were ethnically cleansed, she with her fist in the air shouting chuckie ar la three times to cheers of the crowd
3) The closing concert at the ‘so-called’ crosscummity west Belfast festival, funded by public money, again invited along wolf tonnes and again had ira chanting and anti unionist songs.
And it’s only a couple of weeks since the Tyrone Senior GAA team were filmed shout ira at a small band containing mainly young girls.

You’s need to take off the sectarian spectacles and get a bit of reality in your lives. The cases above also involve mainly your republican ‘ambassadors’. What an example.

But sure let us all focus on a 3 inches emblem on a bands slieve. To mention anything else would be whataboutery SAD

Intransigence and bigotry you'd know a lot about that alright it's killing you that you lot can't rub nationalists faces in it anymore that you can't be triumphalist and supremacist anymore. I note that the ABOD have apologised for the offence caused do you not agree with that? That band knew exactly what they were doing and the offence it would cause how could they not? in the same city where the paras butchered 13 innocent people. This is akin to republicans wishing to march through Larne or Carrick while glorifying the IRA you'd have a meltdown. This parade has been facilitated through Derry thanks to a lot of goodwill and community work and that has been thrown away thanks to the actions of this scummy band.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

What's not the case?
Not for me no. I was fluent as a kid but lost it over time. I do know many Irish speakers though. It's logical for Ireland to support Irish. It would be shameful to let it fade IMO. That's above and beyond any petty DUP or anti-Irish rhetoric. It's a language of Ireland. Politics changes and we get petty squabbles. Irish is far greater than trying to score points against bigots. We might as well call the country Burger King, home of the Whopper if we don't respect and support our unique culture.

It is logical to support the Irish language as a way of maintaining our heritage.

However the things we do - putting all signs in Irish, requiring court services to be provided in Irish, making the Irish version of legislation supreme, compulsory Irish in schools etc - they do nothing to support Irish, instead they create resentment against the language, they pigeon-hole it as a burden rather than a benefit.

realitykeeper

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Southern society today has more in common with Billy than that sectarian mob. He was fighting for civil and religious liberty for all.

I guess he didn`t know the penal laws would be introduced afterwards, subjugating the vast majority to misery and enslavement for their beliefs.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It is logical to support the Irish language as a way of maintaining our heritage.

However the things we do - putting all signs in Irish, requiring court services to be provided in Irish, making the Irish version of legislation supreme, compulsory Irish in schools etc - they do nothing to support Irish, instead they create resentment against the language, they pigeon-hole it as a burden rather than a benefit.

Those things are part of the strategy for strengthening the language.

If somebody is going to take offence at the sight of a language, that really is their problem to deal with. Dealing with it involves things like maturity and learning the value of respect.

realitykeeper

janfebmar wrote: »

He was not gay according to his wife Mary, or according to his Mistress Elizabeth Villiers. Of course some of his enemies say he was gay. What else would you expect them to say?

He was gay. The marriage was part of a pact with England. Here is a clip from the movie Admiral: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oNwFEl8w20

munsterlegend

blanch152 wrote: »

It is logical to support the Irish language as a way of maintaining our heritage.

However the things we do - putting all signs in Irish, requiring court services to be provided in Irish, making the Irish version of legislation supreme, compulsory Irish in schools etc - they do nothing to support Irish, instead they create resentment against the language, they pigeon-hole it as a burden rather than a benefit.

What’s wrong with putting our signs in both languages? It’s actually quite interesting considering the vast majority of place names even up north came from the Irish language.

FrancieBrady

munsterlegend wrote: »

What’s wrong with putting our signs in both languages? It’s actually quite interesting considering the vast majority of place names even up north came from the Irish language.

There are things, like the flag and anthems I have no problems with negotiating. But the immature, condescending and frankly, colonial attitude to our language needs to be just ignored. It is wrong to encourage the bigotry and childish faux offence around what is a beautiful and culturally rich attribute to us all even if people don't speak it.

munsterlegend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There are things, like the flag and anthems I have no problems with negotiating. But the immature, condescending and frankly, colonial attitude to our language needs to be just ignored. It is wrong to encourage the bigotry and childish faux offence around what is a beautiful and culturally rich attribute to us all even if people don't speak it.

Unionism love culture except when it comes to anything which has anything to do with their neighbour down south. How a language spoken by our ancestors can cause such offense to them really shows the superiority mindset has not gone away.

FrancieBrady

munsterlegend wrote: »

Unionism love culture except when it comes to anything which has anything to do with their neighbour down south. How a language spoken by our ancestors can cause such offense to them really shows the superiority mindset has not gone away.

Unionist insecurity is the problem. And that insecurity is exploited by a toxic Orange Order who spell it out. The British identity is to be strenghtened by denying the identity of others.

One of their latest 'resolutions' comes straight from the sectarian bigoted statelet's handbook:

We reaffirm our opposition to the introduction of any form of legislation for the Irish language. Such a move would have far reaching detrimental consequences for our British identity and would rightly be acknowledged as a landmark victory for republicanism in their ongoing cultural war against our community.

Insecurity writ large there.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

But sure let us all focus on a 3 inches emblem on a bands slieve.

You're on a different planet.

They're expressing support for a killer who's being prosecuted for multiple murders not far away from where they're marching.

Nasty pieces of work.

downcow

citytillidie wrote: »

I hope that you're including yourself in that. You will bring up MEP but not give their name. Refuse to use a name of a dead person, and not use the correct spelling of the Irish language but try to mock it the way Gregory Campbell has done.

Also the so called 1st minister Arlene Foster really has shown that she is full of double standards, she was right condemning the bonfire last week in New Lodge as a bile of hate that no one wants to see but very quiet on 11th bonfire's which were just as bad, with DUP party members enjoying them seeing them as Protestant culture.

Lots of public money is spent on the 12th and 11th. N.Ireland football fans were also filmed singing bad songs towards Catholics yet you are all quiet on that or see it as ok

Oh dear. Sad stuff.
Your victim hood and conspiracy theory thinking is just unbelievable
There was no way I meant anything by not naming the MEP. I thought we all knew it was martina Anderson.
My spelling of ‘ourselves alone’ was also because I do not have a clue how to spell it in Irish other than I think it starts with T Of course I could look it up on google but you are far to sensitive I meant no offence.

As for ni fans. I am one and travel all over Europe with them. I absolutely love travelling with them and can’t wait for Amsterdam next month.
The behaviour of the ni fans (and indeed almost all other countries fans I meet)
Of course you can find isolated instances and I can find you roi fans chanting IRA. But I think it is irrelevant because my experience of roi fans is that they are good guys out having fun just like us and I defend them when bigots do what you have just done on the ni fans.
I think roi fans have a little further to travel eg the very large proportion of their fans wearing Celtic shirts. If you were to turn up in a bar on an away trip in a rangers shirt you will be shunned and asked stuff like , oh are rangers playing here as well? You won’t find anything near a ni game that is not ni related. I think the roi fans should probably think of stopping wearing a British teams shirts when they are supporting roi

RobMc59

munsterlegend wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There are things, like the flag and anthems I have no problems with negotiating. But the immature, condescending and frankly, colonial attitude to our language needs to be just ignored. It is wrong to encourage the bigotry and childish faux offence around what is a beautiful and culturally rich attribute to us all even if people don't speak it.

Unionism love culture except when it comes to anything which has anything to do with their neighbour down south. How a language spoken by our ancestors can cause such offense to them really shows the superiority mindset has not gone away.

Perhaps as well as all the languages proposed old english which is a germanic anglo saxon language originally spoken by the British could be added to the signs?

downcow

gwalk wrote: »

why not promote this one instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AMDl__eCsA&t=2805s

"Loyalists celebrating their culture on their yearly Orange festival. Contains violence and riotous behavior."

Actually gwalk I am pretty sure I have watched that documentary and I would agree with you it is well worth watching. As I recall the presenter is a young catholic women from Donegal who spends time getting to know both sides. Fair play to her. It would be important though that people don’t just watch a wee bit of it but rather the whole thing to get context. And also remember it’s over 6 years old.

Thanks for posting that gwalk- it’s not often we agree

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You won’t find anything near a ni game that is not ni related.

Like the para flag they took to Dublin?

Maybe they all have ambitions to join the Para's too?

Both sets of fans try to antagonise each other downcow. Call it out...stop the defending of 'yourwans'.

downcow

Scoundrel wrote: »

Intransigence and bigotry you'd know a lot about that alright it's killing you that you lot can't rub nationalists faces in it anymore that you can't be triumphalist and supremacist anymore. I note that the ABOD have apologised for the offence caused do you not agree with that? That band knew exactly what they were doing and the offence it would cause how could they not? in the same city where the paras butchered 13 innocent people. This is akin to republicans wishing to march through Larne or Carrick while glorifying the IRA you'd have a meltdown. This parade has been facilitated through Derry thanks to a lot of goodwill and community work and that has been thrown away thanks to the actions of this scummy band.

The Republicans walk through the nearest Protestant town to me every year celebrating the ira and there’s not a word about it