The glorious 12th

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Well there we are francie. You just sum up the issue with this post. You are either very niave or playing games

What? I asked what you were offended by.

You are saying she was disrespecting a 46 year old death by taking the arm of an old lady and having a little dance?

You are saying that you want SF to stop making speeches about their legitimate aspirations under the GFA - a UI?

I would say, you are stretching on the first point and I would agree on the second if they were doing it - speaking about their aspiration - to deliberately taunt and offend.

Fionn1952

Can we just go back to Tim/Down/Jan's parroting of higher murder rates in Ireland vs UK?

I'd love to see the numbers you're quoting there, my own looking into it finds the following:

Intentional homicide victims per 100,000 inhabitants:

Overall United Kingdom - 1.20
England & Wales - 1.20
Scotland - 1.10
Northern Ireland - 1.30

As opposed to Ireland - 0.90

https://dataunodc.un.org/crime/intentional-homicide-victims

https://dataunodc.un.org/GSH_app


Turns out the homicide rate in Ireland is considerably lower than the UK, regardless of how you attempt to subdivide it.

To talk specifically gun related homicide seems a bit like someone may be cherry picking their figures to me. I'd be more concerned about my overall likelihood to be murdered than the particular method personally.

Speaking of the 12th, 50 years ago today, 12 August 1969, the Troubles essentially began with the Battle of the Bogside. RUC and B Special reinforcements were brought into Derry from across the Six Counties and in an attempt to draw them back to Belfast, Newry, Omagh etc, nationalists rose up across the North. Two days later the British Army arrived into the Six Counties where pogroms in Belfast had driven thousands of nationalists from their homes, as TV images spread not only across Ireland but across the world and Bernadette Devlin became by far the most famous Irish person in the world. Jack Lynch came out at this time with his 'We will not stand by' tv broadcast and refugee camps were established south of the border:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n9SMYsT04g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPchydJc1q0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz68rRVcyPU

RobMc59

Deleted User wrote: »

Speaking of the 12th, 50 years ago today, 12 August 1969, the Troubles essentially began with the Battle of the Bogside. RUC and B Special reinforcements were brought into Derry from across the Six Counties and in an attempt to draw them back to Belfast, Newry, Omagh etc, nationalists rose up across the North. Two days later the British Army arrived into the Six Counties where pogroms in Belfast had driven thousands of nationalists from their homes, as TV images spread not only across Ireland but across the world and Bernadette Devlin became by far the most famous Irish person in the world. Jack Lynch came out at this time with his 'We will not stand by' tv broadcast and refugee camps were established south of the border:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n9SMYsT04g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPchydJc1q0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz68rRVcyPU

Is that the same Bernadette Devlin who the BA saved from being killed by paramilitaries?

downcow

Deleted User wrote: »

Speaking of the 12th, 50 years ago today, 12 August 1969, the Troubles essentially began with the Battle of the Bogside. RUC and B Special reinforcements were brought into Derry from across the Six Counties and in an attempt to draw them back to Belfast, Newry, Omagh etc, nationalists rose up across the North. Two days later the British Army arrived into the Six Counties where pogroms in Belfast had driven thousands of nationalists from their homes, as TV images spread not only across Ireland but across the world and Bernadette Devlin became by far the most famous Irish person in the world. Jack Lynch came out at this time with his 'We will not stand by' tv broadcast and refugee camps were established south of the border:
]

I think you missed a wee bit of that story
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/finally-the-truth-about-londonderry-s-exodus-to-be-told-on-television-1-1862606

citytillidie

RobMc59 wrote: »

Is that the same Bernadette Devlin who the BA saved from being killed by paramilitaries?

Yes they saved her from an attack from the Red Hand Comandos because they were watching her house for her role in a prisoners campaign.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I think you missed a wee bit of that story
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/finally-the-truth-about-londonderry-s-exodus-to-be-told-on-television-1-1862606

Which wouldn't have happened had the place not gone up in flames.

citytillidie

downcow wrote: »

I think you missed a wee bit of that story
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/finally-the-truth-about-londonderry-s-exodus-to-be-told-on-television-1-1862606

Well if the Protestant state had of been fairer with how the place was run we could be in a different world.

RobMc59

downcow wrote: »

I think you missed a wee bit of that story
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/finally-the-truth-about-londonderry-s-exodus-to-be-told-on-television-1-1862606

I don't know if you watched ITV news at 10 last night,there was a BA soldier on speaking about the problems they encountered in the troubles-very revealing.Apparently, this evening, ITV news are going to be covering the BA arriving in Derry and this is on every night this week.

Odhinn

RobMc59 wrote: »

Is that the same Bernadette Devlin who the BA saved from being killed by paramilitaries?

Au contraire. The BA were outside the house when she arrived home. For reasons unknown they weren't there when the loyalists burst in and pumped 9 bullets into her, but seemed to pop up out of the blue as the loyalists left the house. Gas that.

FrancieBrady

I interviewed the producer/director of this back when it came out. Brilliantly put together and a very definitive balanced account.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpg-pEpaSwU

They told the shenanigans of trying to get to Jim Callaghan for an interview shortly before he died. Nearly a film script in itself.

They asked him about the statement he made from upstairs window of a house in the Bogside, and were gobsmacked that the old man remembered the name of the lady who owned the house. He had incredible recall and spent time talking about what could have been.

Don't we all!

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Many young people in my community aspire to join this regiment because it is known as one of the best in the world.

PETER - CHESHIRE REGIMENT

Brits Speak Out
British Soldiers' Impressions of the
Northern Ireland Conflict
Compiled by John Lindsay (1998)

janfebmar

downcow wrote: »

here is the SF leadership in action just this week. watch the video and tell me does it make you sick to see the SF MEP dancing in the square where the IRA murdered a 5 month old protestant baby and then Shouting chuckie ar la 3 times on the sport the baby was murdered ......and we are concerned about a legal logo on the slieve of a bands shirts - young men who are not MEPs

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/martina-anderson-calls-out-tiocfaidh-ar-la-at-hunger-strike-commemoration-in-strabane-38374876.html

Fairly sickening all right. How many murdered people heard that cry "chucked ar la" as they were ambushed / shot in the back?

James Brown

janfebmar wrote: »

Fairly sickening all right. How many murdered people heard that cry "chucked ar la" as they were ambushed / shot in the back?

It's 'tiocfaidh ár lá' by the way. A fair few I'd imagine. What's your point, other than demeaning the Irish language?
How many were murdered by British soldiers or terrorists acting on information from British intelligence? We could go round and round on this.

Odhinn

janfebmar wrote: »

Fairly sickening all right. How many murdered people heard that cry "chucked ar la" as they were ambushed / shot in the back?

No one, as no such phrase exists.

RobMc59

Matt Barrett wrote: »

janfebmar wrote: »

Fairly sickening all right. How many murdered people heard that cry "chucked ar la" as they were ambushed / shot in the back?

It's 'tiocfaidh ár lá' by the way. A fair few I'd imagine. What's your point, other than demeaning the Irish language?
How many were murdered by British soldiers or terrorists acting on information from British intelligence? We could go round and round on this.

It would be interesting to know how many of the regular republican posters here are actually fluent in Irish and use it daily as their first language?

Odhinn

RobMc59 wrote: »

It would be interesting to know how many of the regular republican posters here are actually fluent in Irish and use it daily as their first language?

Why?

janfebmar

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's 'tiocfaidh ár lá' by the way. A fair few I'd imagine. What's your point, other than demeaning the Irish language?
How many were murdered by British soldiers or terrorists acting on information from British intelligence? We could go round and round on this.

If a fair few murder victims of terrorists heard those words, or what sounded like it, as their final words, what does that say about the politician who sickenly screamed it three times?

As regards your second point, would it have taken British intelligence to know who was Catholic and who was not Catholic, or are you suggesting some of the innocent Catholics murdered were really members of paramilitaries?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Fairly sickening all right. How many murdered people heard that cry "chucked ar la" as they were ambushed / shot in the back?

What exactly was 'sickening' about it? It was SF expressing their legitimate aspiration - a united Ireland. Is this such a massive surprise to you guys?

Tiocfaidh ár lá was first used by James Joyce, who put it into the mouth of one of his characters. Bobby Sands popularised it and SF have used it since as have most republicans, in the same way unionists and loyalist use 'No Surrender' - And 'Ulster will Fight and Ulster will be Right' etc.

The only killer we definitely know who used it before a murder is the Loyalist Michael Stone who used it to get by a security cordon at a republican funeral and killed 3 people. (Correct me if I am wrong)

buried

janfebmar wrote: »

If a fair few murder victims of terrorists heard those words, or what sounded like it, as their final words

What in Gods name are you blathering on about?

buried

buried wrote: »

What in Gods name are you blathering on about?

hehe.

James Brown

RobMc59 wrote: »

It would be interesting to know how many of the regular republican posters here are actually fluent in Irish and use it daily as their first language?

Cén fáth/why?
Would it have any bearing on someone purposely demeaning it?

James Brown

janfebmar wrote: »

If a fair few murder victims of terrorists heard those words, or what sounded like it, as their final words, what does that say about the politician who sickenly screamed it three times?

As regards your second point, would it have taken British intelligence to know who was Catholic and who was not Catholic, or are you suggesting some of the innocent Catholics murdered were really members of paramilitaries?

It's a phrase in Irish. It means 'our time will come'. It means we'll have a free UI one day. No more or less abhorent than 'God save the queen', actually less so.

No. My point was you were talking only about the IRA like they acted in a vacuum. Others did similar.

munsterlegend

Odhinn wrote: »

Au contraire. The BA were outside the house when she arrived home. For reasons unknown they weren't there when the loyalists burst in and pumped 9 bullets into her, but seemed to pop up out of the blue as the loyalists left the house. Gas that.

Funny how rob never thanked your quite helpful post.

It just shows how corrupt the north was. The BA watching the house she lived in and she gets shot.

janfebmar

munsterlegend wrote: »

It just shows how corrupt the north was. The BA watching the house she lived in and she gets shot.

Watching it from miles away perhaps, because the attacking paramilitaries did not see them or they would not have attacked, would they? Her life was saved by being given first aid by the army, and by being taken by helicopter to hospital without undue delay. The British army also captured the attackers, who were subsequently jailed. Does not sound like something very corrupt to me.

Not too long afterwards, a unionist politician and his son were murdered.

munsterlegend

janfebmar wrote: »

Watching it from miles away perhaps, because the attacking paramilitaries did not see them or they would not have attacked, would they? Her life was saved by being given first aid by the army, and by being taken by helicopter to hospital without undue delay. The British army also captured the attackers, who were subsequently jailed. Does not sound like something very corrupt to me.

Not too long afterwards, a unionist politician and his son were murdered.

Or as shown in numerous other murders the state let the loyalist paramilitaries do their dirty work by standing idly by. Army were probably shocked she survived.

janfebmar

munsterlegend wrote: »

Or as shown in numerous other murders the state let the loyalist paramilitaries do their dirty work by standing idly by. Army were probably shocked she survived.

Why did they save her life and capture and jail the paramilitaries that shot her so? And if the paramilitaries were in collusion with the army, do you not think they would have been annoyed at the army and ratted on the army? So your conspiracy theory story does not add up.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Why did they save her life and capture and jail the paramilitaries that shot her so? And if the paramilitaries were in collusion with the army, do you not think they would have been annoyed at the army and ratted on the army? So your conspiracy theory story does not add up.

Very simple possible explanation. There may have been a soldier or soldiers there who would have ratted if they let her die.

Who knows, when you review the record of the security forces here. You certainly don't.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Very simple possible explanation. There may have been a soldier or soldiers there who would have ratted if they let her die.

Who knows, when you review the record of the security forces here. You certainly don't.

How could they have ratted if they let her die? Why did they capture all of the paramilitaries: if they were in cahoots the paramilitaries would not have attacked then, aor would have made good their escape. You have failed to think things through yet again Francie.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

How could they have ratted if they let her die?

They file a report and say that they were not allowed to help her or call for help.

Why did they capture all of the paramilitaries: if they were in cahoots the paramilitaries would not have attacked then, aor would have made good their escape. You have failed to think things through yet again Francie.

You are the very one on here that insists they were not all bad. They weren't all bad, or there would have been a bloodbath, how many were we don't know as yet but it was significant. Some of them did their job, of that there is no doubt.

You are the one not thinking things through here.