The glorious 12th

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

At no time have I said you removed or did anything to posts,I think posts were removed by mods and I stated that at the time-stop trying to play the victim francie,

I am not playing the victim. I am accusing you of blatantly lying to back up jan's lie.

endainoz

downcow wrote:

They were first lit to help williamiteships navigate Ulster waters. They were then lit across the country in 1690 to celebrate the williamite (democracy) victory over James (total authority of the king). In other words to welcome a more democratic way forward. They have been lit in Protestant areas annually for hundreds of years. In any other country in the world they would be seen as a valuable bit of history worth protecting and supporting

That would be all well and good if it actually still celebrated democracy instead of inciting hatred by antagonizing Nationalists, what does this have to do with democracy? If it geuinely still happened for that purpose, sure let it be part of history, it doesn't though.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

At no time have I said you removed or did anything to posts,I think posts were removed by mods and I stated that at the time-stop trying to play the victim francie,

I am not playing the victim. I am accusing you of blatantly lying to back up jan's lie.

Yes ok francie,if you continue in this vein perhaps you should change your boards name to another literary character-Billy lier.:D

citytillidie

downcow wrote: »

They were first lit to help williamiteships navigate Ulster waters. They were then lit across the country in 1690 to celebrate the williamite (democracy) victory over James (total authority of the king). In other words to welcome a more democratic way forward.
They have been lit in Protestant areas annually for hundreds of years.
In any other country in the world they would be seen as a valuable bit of history worth protecting and supporting

The world has moved on from the 17th century.

janfebmar

downcow wrote: »

Are you suggesting you you don’t know the unionists in ni are not very reguarally referred to as black b......s?

Francie, who claims to never have voted for Sinn Fein even though he has 20,000 posts defending them, also claims never to have heard the term black b.....ds said about a certain segment of the population. I have heard the term a number of times from Republicans in real life, sometimes they were using it as an insulting term about ruc / udr, sometimes just about rangers supporters etc.

The reason it was mentioned earlier today in this thread was because someone else was using the term "jaffas".

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Francie, who claims to never have voted for Sinn Fein even though he has 20,000 posts defending them, also claims never to have heard the term black b.....ds said about a certain segment of the population. I have heard the term a number of times from Republicans in real life, sometimes they were using it as an insulting term about ruc / udr, sometimes just about rangers supporters etc.

The reason it was mention earlier today in this thread was because someone else was using the term "jaffas".

You are consistently the only one using it here.

I never said I 'never heard it' - another lie easily dripping out of you that you cannot back up (no doubt faithful Rob will back you up on that one too). I have protestant children and a protestant partner, of course I have heard it used by mindless thugs.

downcow

endainoz wrote: »

That would be all well and good if it actually still celebrated democracy instead of inciting hatred by antagonizing Nationalists, what does this have to do with democracy? If it geuinely still happened for that purpose, sure let it be part of history, it doesn't though.

Same reason you don’t do exactly the same with Irish language. It clearly is contentious and antagonises people so why not just let it be part of history.

.....and I am clearly not suggesting that as I think those interested in the Irish language should be encouraged, thanked, and maybe even continued to be given funding to support it as it is a rich piece of the history and custom of this island.

Diversity is wealth

downcow

janfebmar wrote: »

Francie, who claims to never have voted for Sinn Fein even though he has 20,000 posts defending them, also claims never to have heard the term black b.....ds said about a certain segment of the population. I have heard the term a number of times from Republicans in real life, sometimes they were using it as an insulting term about ruc / udr, sometimes just about rangers supporters etc.

The reason it was mentioned earlier today in this thread was because someone else was using the term "jaffas".

....and of course the irony of those that see themselves as disadvantaged, using a term the identified Presbyterians as the most disadvantaged of all at one point in this island.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Same reason you don’t do exactly the same with Irish language. It clearly is contentious and antagonises people so why not just let it be part of history.

.....and I am clearly not suggesting that as I think those interested in the Irish language should be encourage, thanked, and maybe even continued to be given gunding to support it as it is a rich piece of the history and custom of this island.

Diversity is wealth

Always has to be, 'themuns' have to concede something before we recognise something we are doing is inherently wrong.

It is wrong downcow, no matter who does it, engages in it.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Always has to be, 'themuns' have to concede something before we recognise something we are doing is inherently wrong.

It is wrong downcow, no matter who does it, engages in it.

11th night fires are absolutely not wrong. They may piss you off but that doesn’t make them wrong.

Of course isolated wrong things happen at a small minority of them but that would be like banning football because of a few riots

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

11th night fires are absolutely not wrong. They may piss you off but that doesn’t make them wrong.

They are wrong even from an environmental point of view.
And as Al Capone was caught on tax evasion, that is how this out dated practice will eventually end too, taking it with it the bigoted and sectarian taunting.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are wrong even from an environmental point of view.
.

Nonsense. Wood is a renewable energy.
You just dispise the young loyalists who value the celebrations.
It’s ok for middle class people to fly off for holidays every year but the kids in these areas can’t have a fire.
Catch yourself on.

downcow

Wikipedia list the 8 weirdest fire celebrations around the world and we don’t even make their top 8 list.
So you may get those ones stopped first
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/fireworks-bonfire-night-weirdest-traditions-celebrations-guy-fawkes-a8031811.html%3famp

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Nonsense. Wood is a renewable energy.
You just dispise the young loyalists who value the celebrations.
It’s ok for middle class people to fly off for holidays every year but the kids in these areas can’t have a fire.
Catch yourself on.

We in the south are not allowed to burn stuff where we like downcow. Like the plastic bag tax and no smoking in pubs, you will follow suit on this too because it is outdated and toxic on a few levels.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We in the south are not allowed to burn stuff where we like downcow. Like the plastic bag tax and no smoking in pubs, you will follow suit on this too because it is outdated and toxic on a few levels.

Quite sad francie that you lower a cultural event using wood, to your plastic and smoking issues.
I think you should direct your energies at cities around the world who think it’s a good idea to spend millions on fireworks while homeless people lie on the surrounding streets.
Francie, park the sectarianism and challenge the stuff that ignores the very communities who love the 11th night bonfires.
I find it disgusting when people have no problem with fireworks displays, fashion shows, sporting corporate stuff, etc , etc. But wants to pontificate to young people who gather up pallets for the biggest night of their year.
Disgusting!

endainoz

downcow wrote:

Same reason you don’t do exactly the same with Irish language. It clearly is contentious and antagonises people so why not just let it be part of history.

The fact that a language that is a few hundred years older than than 1690 offends people and antagonizes people is surely the definition of bigotry.

I know your not suggesting that as you said in your second paragraph but the fact that you even mention it says something about loyalist beliefs.

There's a huge difference here, the Irish language in it's current form is not used to antagonize people, it's a language.... nothing sectarian about it.

The bonfires (both sides by the way) in their current form however....

It's foolish to compare them in that respect. I really don't see scumbags building fires as history, whether they are celebrating end of internment or a battle from the 17th century that was essentially decided because of horse stirrups.

Language, music, art. That is culture. The OO could be seen as culture if it went through an overhaul and got rid of the old fat bitter men, and maybe stopped using marches for recruitment of paramilitary organizations.

Maybe there should be more OO type concerts? Fill out a big hall with loyalists, they can sing all their songs and marches and things and Nationalists won't have to be bothered by a match going through their streets.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Quite sad francie that you lower a cultural event using wood, to your plastic and smoking issues.
I think you should direct your energies at cities around the world who think it’s a good idea to spend millions on fireworks while homeless people lie on the surrounding streets.
Francie, park the sectarianism and challenge the stuff that ignores the very communities who love the 11th night bonfires.
I find it disgusting when people have no problem with fireworks displays, fashion shows, sporting corporate stuff, etc , etc. But wants to pontificate to young people who gather up pallets for the biggest night of their year.
Disgusting!

'Look over there'...again. Not good enough downcow and you know it.

downcow

endainoz wrote: »

The fact that a language that is a few hundred years older than than 1690 offends people and antagonizes people is surely the definition of bigotry.

I know your not suggesting that as you said in your second paragraph but the fact that you even mention it says something about loyalist beliefs.

There's a huge difference here, the Irish language in it's current form is not used to antagonize people, it's a language.... nothing sectarian about it.

The bonfires (both sides by the way) in their current form however....

It's foolish to compare them in that respect. I really don't see scumbags building fires as history, whether they are celebrating end of internment or a battle from the 17th century that was essentially decided because of horse stirrups.

Language, music, art. That is culture. The OO could be seen as culture if it went through an overhaul and got rid of the old fat bitter men, and maybe stopped using marches for recruitment of paramilitary organizations.

Maybe there should be more OO type concerts? Fill out a big hall with loyalists, they can sing all their songs and marches and things and Nationalists won't have to be bothered by a match going through their streets.

Just simply disgusting bigotry to refer to the many many 1,000s of kids across ni who enjoy the months leading up to 11th night and all the ‘collecting’ as SCUMBAGS.
It’s really sad.
I haven’t been to a fire in years as it’s very much young people, but I certainly have in the past. So I am a scumbag in your eyes.
I have no doubt the vast majority of young unionists have attended bonfires. So they are all a shower of scumbags.
That attitude after a UI will kick of something that will be very hard to put back in the box.
I dare say if you interviewed teenage unionists and teenage nationalists and asked one about about 11th night and the other the Irish language you would be hugely disappointed as the young unionists would light up with excitement and fondness and the nationalist may mumble something about it good to keep it alive.
11th night is here to stay. Not the slightest chance it’s going anywhere because the young people choose to do it and it’s not adults telling them you must learn this cause we are republicans

votecounts

downcow wrote: »

Just simply disgusting bigotry to refer to the many many 1,000s of kids across ni who enjoy the months leading up to 11th night and all the ‘collecting’ as SCUMBAGS.
It’s really sad.
I haven’t been to a fire in years as it’s very much young people, but I certainly have in the past. So I am a scumbag in your eyes.
I have no doubt the vast majority of young unionists have attended bonfires. So they are all a shower of scumbags.
That attitude after a UI will kick of something that will be very hard to put back in the box.
I dare say if you interviewed teenage unionists and teenage nationalists and asked one about about 11th night and the other the Irish language you would be hugely disappointed as the young unionists would light up with excitement and fondness and the nationalist may mumble something about it good to keep it alive.
11th night is here to stay. Not the slightest chance it’s going anywhere because the young people choose to do it and it’s not adults telling them you must learn this cause we are republicans

You wilfully attend a bonfire that burns our national flag and you ask "are you a Scumbag". Unbeleivable

FrancieBrady

Stop hiding behind kids downcow.

downcow

endainoz wrote: »

Maybe there should be more OO type concerts? Fill out a big hall with loyalists, they can sing all their songs and marches and things and Nationalists won't have to be bothered by a match going through their streets.

I think that’s called apartheid. The mask is slipping.
I trust the UK will never let us into your clutches

citytillidie

downcow wrote: »

Just simply disgusting bigotry to refer to the many many 1,000s of kids across ni who enjoy the months leading up to 11th night and all the ‘collecting’ as SCUMBAGS.
It’s really sad.
I haven’t been to a fire in years as it’s very much young people, but I certainly have in the past. So I am a scumbag in your eyes.
I have no doubt the vast majority of young unionists have attended bonfires. So they are all a shower of scumbags.
That attitude after a UI will kick of something that will be very hard to put back in the box.
I dare say if you interviewed teenage unionists and teenage nationalists and asked one about about 11th night and the other the Irish language you would be hugely disappointed as the young unionists would light up with excitement and fondness and the nationalist may mumble something about it good to keep it alive.
11th night is here to stay. Not the slightest chance it’s going anywhere because the young people choose to do it and it’s not adults telling them you must learn this cause we are republicans

So what would you refer those to in New Lodge last week who spent time gathering wood for a fire ?

downcow

votecounts wrote: »

You wilfully attend a bonfire that burns our national flag and you ask "are you a Scumbag". Unbeleivable

Votecounts. It’s complex. The reason that flag is burn at a small minority if bonfires is because that is the flag that was draped over coffins of people who launched a sectarian murder campaign on my people.
I completely condemn it being burnt but I do understand why it happens. (Believe it or not, I also understand why nationalists burn the union flag).
If only life was as simple as you seem to think it is

downcow

citytillidie wrote: »

So what would you refer those to in New Lodge last week who spent time gathering wood for a fire ?

I most certainly would not call them scumbags.
I honestly looked on on social media and felt angry with society that can allow young people to get so angry and hopeless for this to take place.
They are not stupid. A excellent strategy from their point of view to put a few young people on top. Completely disarmed police as they couldn’t possibly fight with them up there. The unionists hadn’t thought of that one but I guess they have learnt and no bonfire can ever be removed in the future.
What went on that night was desperately sad and thankfully that is unheard of at a loyalist fire.
So in short. I think those young people are as precious as me and my family but they have had seriously limited opportunities.
I may use the term SCUMBAG for any outsider who judged them from a position of privilege

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Stop hiding behind kids downcow.

It`s not Unionists who hide behind people francie..

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

It`s not Unionists who hide behind people francie..

He is trying to put this behaviour down to kids having fun. Of course he is hiding behind kids.

But sure Rob, you do your usual ****e...point over there someplace.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He is trying to put this behaviour down to kids having fun. Of course he is hiding behind kids.

But sure Rob, you do your usual ****e...point over there someplace.

Francie check out any photo (google has 1,000s of them) and tell me that the massive majority collecting, building and attending bonfires are not young people.
You want to convince yourself that this tradition is dying but the evidence suggests the opposite. Indeed google any of the 1,000s of band parades and tell me the average age of participants and audience is not under 20. Not nice listening for those who want to unite this island, but it is fact - evidenced by google

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie check out any photo (google has 1,000s of them) and tell me that the massive majority collecting, building and attending bonfires are not young people.
You want to convince yourself that this tradition is dying but the evidence suggests the opposite. Indeed google any of the 1,000s of band parades and tell me the average age of participants and audience is not under 20. Not nice listening for those who want to unite this island, but it is fact - evidenced by google

2 second search.

Some big looking 'kids' here. get a grip with the 'kids stuff, downcow.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40567967

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

2 second search.

Some big looking 'kids' here. get a grip with the 'kids stuff, downcow.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40567967

Francie. When you have such a popular event as the 11th night with 1,000s of photos, you need to curtail your desire to put them down with one selected photo and take an honest look at a range.
Now, be honest, do you accept it is predominately a youth event?

....and could you not find some footage from 2019 without going into the archives lol 😂

gwalk

Downcow shifing the goalposts due to being proved wrong - check

Rob white knighting the unionists - check

Just need Jan to do a big deflection and we have Orange Bingo