Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

nkl12xtw5goz70

ebbsy wrote: »

Corbyn was no use. He couldn't give a proper commitment on Brexit.

The only way for Labour to win this election was to have a likeable centrist leader and sensible policies that the British people wanted to support.

Instead they went with Corbyn — who has the lowest satisfaction ratings of any opposition leader in five decades, and who has failed to deal effectively with the rife antisemitism in his party.

They also went with a radical tax-and-spend manifesto and a plan to renationalize water, railways, and energy that would have sent the UK back to the '70s.

It's hardly a surprise that they lost so badly. Corbyn should have tendered his resignation this morning.

Edgware

MadYaker wrote: »

Is it though. If you add up all the people who voted for torys and brexit party it’s less than 50% of the votes, the joys of the first past the post system. There was also a massive anti Corbyn sentiment contributing to the conservative vote. The reality is they are still hugely divided on brexit although I suspect that at this point most just want it to end one way or another, I certainly do anyway but I think we’re still on for several more years of this. At least the DUP are out of the picture.

If it went the way of Labour etc you would be crowing about recognising the democratic vote.
Same as Trumps win. Thats the system and the people accept it. Why did the Labour heartlands abandon Corbyn? Because he was wishy washy sitting on the fence. Right or wrong the usual Labour voters who voted to leave could not make out Corbyn's position.
As for the S.N.P. they are pathetic, waiting for the Tories to give them permission to have another referedum. Their policy is an independent Scotland, they got the vote yesterday as Ireland did in 1918. Now go and do something about it. Are their regiments loyal to the Queen or loyal to Scotland?

MadYaker

Corbyn will make a great back bencher, it’s where he belongs.

cj maxx

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

free picture upload sites

Ha. That photo wasn't taken 13 dec !. People out in summer gear ?

He's certainly not my prime minister. Should I go?

TwoMonthsOff

cjmc wrote: »

Ha. That photo wasn't taken 13 dec !. People out in summer gear ?

I'd imagine that's a stock photo of a protest. I dont think anyone is claiming it was taken today.

Edgware

MadYaker wrote: »

Corbyn will make a great back bencher, it’s where he belongs.

Wouldn't he be more useful weeding his allotment patch?

First Up

Deleted User wrote:

I'd say the EU are delighted. And they didn't try to push the UK into a second vote.

Delighted might be over-stating it but relieved for sure that the UK might finally be able to move on.

Deleted User wrote:

Johnson has made it clear that NI is a secondary concern and since a border in the Irish sea works better for England, that's what will happen. I don't buy for a second that he's happy with no deal.

No deal is empty bluster, not a bargaining chip. Boris knows it, the EU knows it and UK industry has made it clear to Boris that it isn't an option.

Purely for consumption of Express readers. With the election done, you won't here it mentioned anymore.

8-10

Feisar wrote: »

Here, will I be able to buy cheap booze in the airport if I'm flying to the UK after Brexit?

Only if it's a No Deal scenario

Padre_Pio

A border in the Irish Sea suits us just fine.

NI will slowly succumb to its own isolation and move towards unification.
Hopefully a long, slow m, thought out process with the UK paying the costs.

Canis Lupus

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I bet the ‘second referendum’ crowd will go very quiet now, this idea that britain regrets brexit and only a minority still want it is definitely over now.

This result is probably the best thing for Ireland considering boris only wanted an irish sea border and now arlenes voice matters not

I don't think so. The public were presented with Johnson twat but government as we know it vs Corbyn twat gonna change everything. People don't like scary change so went with the safer of the two twats.

weldoninhio

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say the EU are delighted. And they didn't try to push the UK into a second vote.

Johnson has made it clear that NI is a secondary concern and since a border in the Irish sea works better for England, that's what will happen. I don't buy for a second that he's happy with no deal.

Why did they keep offering extensions then?? They believed that there was voters remorse and it blew back in their face.

Tell me how

cjmc wrote: »

Ha. That photo wasn't taken 13 dec !. People out in summer gear ?

Photos of people at events generally aren't taken before the event happens.

Wanderer78

weldoninhio wrote:

Why did they keep offering extensions then?? They believed that there was voters remorse and it blew back in their face.

I can't see the EU moving much, borris has a bit of work to do

Eric Cartman

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

free picture upload sites

Absolutely pathetic, should they not be happy the anti semetic party lost

TwoMonthsOff

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Absolutely pathetic, should they not be happy the anti semetic party lost

These people are morons of the highest order. Theyve nothing better to do.

Dytalus

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why did they keep offering extensions then?? They believed that there was voters remorse and it blew back in their face.

Because No Deal is the worst possible option for the EU. A deal is preferable. They offered extensions hoping the Withdrawal Agreements (May's or Johnson's) would be signed and pass through Parliament.

CalamariFritti

It's mad how politics have gone. We've seen labour install neoliberalism and now we're seeing the conservatives damaging the union beyond repair. And all over shenanigans and power struggles. Political culture is really on its knees and democracy is damaged to the extent where people are just pissed off with everything. Not just a British phenomenon.

On the upside maybe people will get on with Brexit now. It will still take forever, but at least there may be some sort of progress now.

easypazz

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why did they keep offering extensions then?? They believed that there was voters remorse and it blew back in their face.

They offered extensions to avoid a no deal.

Nobody will care too much about Boris now.

Border down the Irish sea and a second Scottish referenum.

What was a united kingdom could break up quite fast now.

Padre_Pio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why did they keep offering extensions then?? They believed that there was voters remorse and it blew back in their face.

To not offer extension would be a vindictive move that would hurt both UK and Eu.

An extension was in everyone's best interest.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why did they keep offering extensions then?? They believed that there was voters remorse and it blew back in their face.

It's simply to their benefit to offer extensions. At the time they were granted anyway. Time will tell. We don't have the benefit of hindsight.

I don't see how this blew up in the EU's face. It has agreed to a WA and now the UK can get it passed. If they hadn't wanted that WA, they wouldn't have agreed to it.

Eric Cartman

easypazz wrote: »

They offered extensions to avoid a no deal.

Nobody will care too much about Boris now.

Border down the Irish sea and a second Scottish referenum.

What was a united kingdom could break up quite fast now.

The cards are now stacked in the faragian vision, we now have a party at the helm that are prepared to leave deal or no deal, quickly and whereas before the EU extensions could be used on a softer position to force the UK to capitulate, its now the EU’s job to make concessions to try avoid a no deal brexit and try agree a deal before deadline day.

Amendments arent going to soften this up and the EU getting divorce money is pretty much off the table.

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The cards are now stacked in the faragian vision, we now have a party at the helm that are prepared to leave deal or no deal, quickly and whereas before the EU extensions could be used on a softer position to force the UK to capitulate, its now the EU’s job to make concessions to try avoid a no deal brexit and try agree a deal before deadline day.

Amendments arent going to soften this up and the EU getting divorce money is pretty much off the table.

the brexit party didnt win a single seat. they have no relevance and neither does farage.

briany

The Conservative party did not campaign on a platform of no-deal. If they turn around and go, "Actually, not so keen on a deal" now, there'll be war.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

, we now have a party at the helm that are prepared to leave deal or no deal,

I think the vote is a mandate for the WA Boris agreed and a move towards trade talks. I've never believed that Johnson et al would leave with no deal. The Benn Act inadvertently saved face.. He was always asking for an extension anyways.

Maybe I'm wrong of course but Johnson just doesn't come across as a no deal advocate. He doesn't have the history to back it up. He has five years now as PM and I think that's all he cares about.

FrancieBrady

briany wrote: »

The Conservative party did not campaign on a platform of no-deal. If they turn around and go, "Actually, not so keen on a deal" now, there'll be war.

Yes, he has a fragile hold over the Tory party, if he pivots towards No Deal he will be gutted like May was internally.

The EU know this too.

weldoninhio

Dytalus wrote: »

Because No Deal is the worst possible option for the EU. A deal is preferable. They offered extensions hoping the Withdrawal Agreements (May's or Johnson's) would be signed and pass through Parliament.

So now Boris has a major bargaining chip. Previously Boris had to make a deal that assuaged the labour/DUP party. Now he can make his own deal or threaten the Eu with a No Deal.

FrancieBrady

weldoninhio wrote: »

So now Boris has a major bargaining chip. Previously Boris had to make a deal that assuaged the labour/DUP party. Now he can make his own deal or threaten the Eu with a No Deal.

Boris mentions No Deal, he loses his party again. It's not going to happen. The EU can see as plainly as anyone else the constraints that are on him.

KildareP

weldoninhio wrote: »

So now Boris has a major bargaining chip. Previously Boris had to make a deal that assuaged the labour/DUP party. Now he can make his own deal or threaten the Eu with a No Deal.

Please. No. Don't start circulating back to this fallacy again.

First and foremost:
No Deal is - at best - equally as bad and as damaging for the UK as it is for the EU.
More Likely - much, much worse.

It's not a credible threat in the sense you are imposing immense amount of personal damage just to see your opponent suffer too. It's a mad not a remotely realistic negotiating position.
It's no more of a threat today as it was before.

Second:
The UK is not prepared for No Deal in the slightest.
As soon as the imminent threat of No Deal ceased, they immediately ceased No Deal preperations. And when the threat returned, they had to hastily resume.
They have no more of a visible plan today as they did twelve months ago.
Any of their stockpiles are either gone off or used.

The EU meanwhile has made ongoing preparations for No Deal as best it can.
These have not stopped.
These have not been scrapped.
They've already switched supply chains in many cases - that's a permanent loss for the UK.

Third:
The UK leaving the EU sees the EU lose one of many major trading partner - yeah, it'll hurt, particularly here in Ireland.
The UK leaving the EU sees the UK lose *all* of it's neighbouring trading partners. It can't simply reroute it's current trade to the US, Canada, Australia. The majority of it's financial industry - the single biggest export it has going - ceases to be because it's no longer in the EU anymore.

It will hurt the EU.
It will devastate the UK.

PopePalpatine

Indyref2 is as likely under Boris as a Scottish World Cup win. The Tories have their majority with what, maybe a single Scottish seat? What bargaining chip could the SNP possibly have?