Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

FrancieBrady

MadYaker wrote: »

So I guess the plan now is to leave via the withdrawal agreement on the 31st of December? If Johnson can get the tories to vote for it that is.

Yes and a calendar month later they are gone. Then Brexit begins, finally.

Kidchameleon

You people need to get their heads out of the sand. The theory that the Brits "don't know what they voted for" does not stick. The theory that "well the Brits don't actually want Brexit" does not stick. It is actually facepalm inducing to read comments like that after the referendum and now this GE! They know what leaving means and they want to leave. This is only the tip of the iceberg of growing anti EU sentiment across the continent. You cannot change it, as you can see, democracy always wins in the end. You witnessed a complete sh1tshow of a parliament getting ousted for what they were - anti democratic, bought-out globalists. You are better off using your energy dealing with reality - the EU is dying, you need to find your place in the new paradigm, stop pretending it doesn't exist.

Eric Cartman

MadYaker wrote: »

How can you say this when the last time they tried no deal it split the Tory party. Those MPs didn’t lose their seats. Logic would suggest it still isn’t an option.

Farage was all for a deal until mays deal was on the table then he flipped to no deal, but the original vision he sold in 2016 - vote brexit, get a deal, leave , is now back on the table

MadYaker

Kidchameleon wrote: »

You people need to get their heads out of the sand. The theory that the Brits "don't know what they voted for" does not stick. The theory that "well the Brits don't actually want Brexit" does not stick. It is actually facepalm inducing to read comments like that after the referendum and now this GE! They know what leaving means and they want to leave. This is only the tip of the iceberg of growing anti EU sentiment across the continent. You cannot change it, as you can see, democracy always wins in the end. You witnessed a complete sh1tshow of a parliament getting ousted for what they were - anti democratic, bought-out globalists. You are better off using your energy dealing with reality - the EU is dying, you need to find your place in the new paradigm, stop pretending it doesn't exist.

Jesus. Who are you ranting at exactly? You sound very angry. Shouldn’t you be happy?

FrancieBrady

Kidchameleon wrote: »

You people need to get their heads out of the sand. The theory that the Brits "don't know what they voted for" does not stick. The theory that "well the Brits don't actually want Brexit" does not stick. It is actually facepalm inducing to read comments like that after the referendum and now this GE! They know what leaving means and they want to leave. This is only the tip of the iceberg of growing anti EU sentiment across the continent. You cannot change it, as you can see, democracy always wins in the end. You witnessed a complete sh1tshow of a parliament getting ousted for what they were - anti democratic, bought-out globalists. You are better off using your energy dealing with reality - the EU is dying, you need to find your place in the new paradigm, stop pretending it doesn't exist.

The EU has been waiting patiently for this for 3 years. And the UK still hasn't left by the way.

Bring it on though.

FrancieBrady

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Farage was all for a deal until mays deal was on the table then he flipped to no deal, but the original vision he sold in 2016 - vote brexit, get a deal, leave , is now back on the table

Seen a newspaper headline saying Johnson is leaving on 'his' terms. You have to laugh at the self delusion of that. He is leaving on the terms he was forced to accept.

MadYaker

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Farage was all for a deal until mays deal was on the table then he flipped to no deal, but the original vision he sold in 2016 - vote brexit, get a deal, leave , is now back on the table

So you accept that in 2016 the people voted to leave with a deal and that no deal never had sufficient public support?

easypazz

Kidchameleon wrote: »

You people need to get their heads out of the sand. The theory that the Brits "don't know what they voted for" does not stick. The theory that "well the Brits don't actually want Brexit" does not stick. It is actually facepalm inducing to read comments like that after the referendum and now this GE! They know what leaving means and they want to leave. This is only the tip of the iceberg of growing anti EU sentiment across the continent. You cannot change it, as you can see, democracy always wins in the end. You witnessed a complete sh1tshow of a parliament getting ousted for what they were - anti democratic, bought-out globalists. You are better off using your energy dealing with reality - the EU is dying, you need to find your place in the new paradigm, stop pretending it doesn't exist.

Cool rant.

We may yet see a very soft brexit and no real difference on the ground for anybody.

Eric Cartman

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Based on what? Your feelings.

You do realise the council estates up and down the land have the vast majority of the people not registered to vote nor ever will...guess what, they are almost all leave.,

UK is Leave, get over it. It's a daylight gap ahead, for leave.

Additionally northern voters who wpuld never vote tory but want to leave, the votes fptp covers up over PR,

I would say a second referendum is a waste, this is a resounding vite that brexit regret is a media invention

easypazz

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Additionally northern voters who wpuld never vote tory but want to leave, the votes fptp covers up over PR,

I would say a second referendum is a waste, this is a resounding vite that brexit regret is a media invention

Not sure about regret, i'd say brexit fatigue.

Corbyn etc. put uncertainty on the table for voters.

If Corbyn, lib dem and snp has put a united brexit strategy on offer then people may have voted differently.

MadYaker

easypazz wrote: »

Not sure about regret, i'd say brexit fatigue.

Corbyn etc. put uncertainty on the table for voters.

If Corbyn, lib dem and snp has put a united brexit strategy on offer then people may have voted differently.

They absolutely would’ve. Corby was utterly useless in opposition at a time when the country really needed effective opposition.

Eric Cartman

MadYaker wrote: »

So you accept that in 2016 the people voted to leave with a deal and that no deal never had sufficient public support?

Yes I have never said that they did, the only support for no deal came from those who saw mays deal as too soft, now with this majority the DUP can be thrown under a bus and a harder version of the customs union based deal (as was directed as per theresa mays multi vote)

The electorate were informed that a deal was prefferable and talked up by everyone, no deal was possible but everyone has worked for a deal since. Bow they can have one that pisses of arlene, keeps leo happy, keeps the eu happy with regards ireland and hardens up enpugh to keep the ‘no deal voters’ content

end of the road

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Based on what? Your feelings.

You do realise the council estates up and down the land have the vast majority of the people not registered to vote nor ever will...guess what, they are almost all leave.,

even if that is the case, it's irrelevant as they didn't vote for it.
basing things on feelings seem to be the brexiters thing tbh.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

UK is Leave, get over it. It's a daylight gap ahead, for leave.

you can screach this soundbite all you like, it's ultimately irrelevant as it's based on feelings and a majority of a small minority of the population who actually voted for it.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

You are being emotional and not logical. Labour has been been a party that has been sucessful, they have a long history of being the only alternative and get a stint in power, make an almightly ba*** of it and are replaced by the Tories again to fix the mess. The "nasty Tories" are just the party that fixes the mess.

Labour has never no ever will be successful. Socialism is a failed ideology and the Corbyn version has a 100% failure rate thoughout history.

The UK is not racist, Boris is not racist. The UK is light years ahead of Ireland on integrating minorities.

The lying, just the those obsessed with the 31st of October, is the last swings of a desperate fool as thye lose yet another argument.

The UK wouldn't have acheived half of what it has or be the 5th largest economy, home of the CIty of London, and a military power, without the Tories.

The Tories, not labour, is the success part of the UK. Deal with it.

well no, they actually don't fix the mess, but rather make it much bigger all be it hide it better.
they strip away everything that is needed to run a country, they strip away services, they are then surprised when things get worse, and then blame someone else, they farm whatever out to companies who keep not delivering, because they don't want to take responsibility. mind you blairite labour did a bit of that.
socialism in itself is far from a failed ideology, corbyn's type of socialism is a mix of standard policies from scandinavian countries, and the rest of modernised europe. policies which for the most part are successful.
the conservatism britain practices on the other hand has not modernised, is unable to meet the needs of modern nations, and is unable to provide solutions to modern problems.
nobody said the uk as a whole is racist, however boris absolutely has made racist comments.
britain actually isn't as good on integration as it thinks, classism is quite a problem there and there are large parts of the country where there is literally nothing for the people living there.
the uk would have most of what it has without the tories, the only thing the tories really have delivered is the city of london, and it's behaviour almost destroyed the country, + britain is over dependant on it which may be a huge problem again down the line especially once brexit takes place.
the uk has nearly always been a military power, it declined slightly for a couple of decades after world war ii where they were bankrupt. the only thing the tories delivered on on that score are hundreds of billions worth of nuclear weapons which aren't needed as nobody is going to bother with a declining nation.

Boggles

Kidchameleon wrote: »

You people need to get their heads out of the sand. The theory that the Brits "don't know what they voted for" does not stick. The theory that "well the Brits don't actually want Brexit" does not stick. It is actually facepalm inducing to read comments like that after the referendum and now this GE! They know what leaving means and they want to leave. This is only the tip of the iceberg of growing anti EU sentiment across the continent. You cannot change it, as you can see, democracy always wins in the end. You witnessed a complete sh1tshow of a parliament getting ousted for what they were - anti democratic, bought-out globalists. You are better off using your energy dealing with reality - the EU is dying, you need to find your place in the new paradigm, stop pretending it doesn't exist.

suicide_circus

Britain, in some form, will recover from Brexit.

It would not have recovered from no Brexit.

MadYaker

suicide_circus wrote: »

Britain, in some form, will recover from Brexit.

It would not have recovered from no Brexit.

Maybe but in ten years when more old leave voters are six feet under I think they’d recover from no brexit quick enough. The ramifications of brexit will last for longer. Unless it’s a super soft brexit which could happen.

suicide_circus

MadYaker wrote: »

Maybe but in ten years when more old leave voters are six feet under I think they’d recover from no brexit quick enough. The ramifications of brexit will last for longer. Unless it’s a super soft brexit which could happen.

young people get old. i arsed around with the socialist workers party in my yooff before i realised it was codology.

Spanish Eyes

FWIW now that Johnson has a humungous majority, he can say what he likes. The ERG thankfully is strangled and silenced now.

So my bet is that the WA will be passed and life will go on as normal, since alignment will have to happen with EU during the Transition Phase.

Ten to fifteen years hence they might get great Trade Agreements with places like the US, but WTF have they got to sell to them as a single entity? Same goes for all those Nirvanas like China (They will choke them for every penny), South America, Australia, and so on.

Big question for me is, why would all these places accept lower standards than EU just to trade with UK? Must be something to do with no tariffs or something. But Most Favoured Nation rules apply under WTO I thought. But anyway. Off they go. And don't forget that Trump wants to get rid of WTO anyway.

My guess is Norway style deal.

cryptocurrency

MadYaker wrote: »

Maybe but in ten years when more old leave voters are six feet under I think they’d recover from no brexit quick enough. The ramifications of brexit will last for longer. Unless it’s a super soft brexit which could happen.

What ramifications ? :pac:

First Up

cryptocurrency wrote:

What ramifications ?

Wait and watch.

cryptocurrency

end of the road wrote: »

even if that is the case, it's irrelevant as they didn't vote for it.
basing things on feelings seem to be the brexiters thing tbh.



you can screach this soundbite all you like, it's ultimately irrelevant as it's based on feelings and a majority of a small minority of the population who actually voted for it.



well no, they actually don't fix the mess, but rather make it much bigger all be it hide it better.
they strip away everything that is needed to run a country, they strip away services, they are then surprised when things get worse, and then blame someone else, they farm whatever out to companies who keep not delivering, because they don't want to take responsibility. mind you blairite labour did a bit of that.
socialism in itself is far from a failed ideology, corbyn's type of socialism is a mix of standard policies from scandinavian countries, and the rest of modernised europe. policies which for the most part are successful.
the conservatism britain practices on the other hand has not modernised, is unable to meet the needs of modern nations, and is unable to provide solutions to modern problems.
nobody said the uk as a whole is racist, however boris absolutely has made racist comments.
britain actually isn't as good on integration as it thinks, classism is quite a problem there and there are large parts of the country where there is literally nothing for the people living there.
the uk would have most of what it has without the tories, the only thing the tories really have delivered is the city of london, and it's behaviour almost destroyed the country, + britain is over dependant on it which may be a huge problem again down the line especially once brexit takes place.
the uk has nearly always been a military power, it declined slightly for a couple of decades after world war ii where they were bankrupt. the only thing the tories delivered on on that score are hundreds of billions worth of nuclear weapons which aren't needed as nobody is going to bother with a declining nation.

Like what you typed above, socialism has just been rejected outright by the UK. You are not in touch with what is going on there, not at all.

FrancieBrady

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Like what you typed above, socialism has just been rejected outright by the UK. You are not in touch with what is going on there, not at all.

The Labour party have been rejected in this election.

Look anywhere else...no need, just look at us and you will see how foolish it is to write anybody off politically.
Labour is wounded. It will recover.

MadYaker

suicide_circus wrote: »

young people get old. i arsed around with the socialist workers party in my yooff before i realised it was codology.

I’m a left winger and I always knew socialism was nonsense. When I was in NUIG they had a few societies and it was always the same neck beard types with unrealistic views of what socialism actually is.

MadYaker

cryptocurrency wrote: »

What ramifications ? :pac:

There’s no point trying to explain it to you. It’s been explained a million times by economists all over and on every thread on boards. I’m not going back over it yet again.

end of the road

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Like what you typed above, socialism has just been rejected outright by the UK.

it wasn't socialism that was rejected in the uk, rather it was both the labour party and a mix of standard european and scandinavian policies, which aren't socialist as such, but rather necessary policies to run a country properly.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

You are not in touch with what is going on there, not at all.

incorrect i'm afraid.

Boggles

Whatever was rejected fúck knows what is going to "replace" it.

Junkyard Tom

Kidchameleon wrote: »

They know what leaving means

Nobody knows what it means. It'll take years to thrash out the future relationship, and goodness knows what will be left of the UK by the time that concludes.

growing anti EU sentiment across the continent

Ehh.. EU scepticism has been hushed by potential leavers watching the slow-motion-crash of Brexit.

the EU is dying

Where are you getting this shite from?

easypazz

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Nobody knows what it means.

Indeed. A soft brexit is very possible with a bit of tokenism like changing the colour of the passport to make people feel good about themselves.

Junkyard Tom

easypazz wrote: »

Indeed. A soft brexit is very possible with a bit of tokenism like changing the colour of the passport to make people feel good about themselves.

London will continue to be the global capital of offshoring, and finance, and EU focussed industries like automanufaturers and aerospace will quietly withdraw to mainland Europe. That means the middle and working classes will suffer while the Tories continue to represent their deep-pocketed patrons and slash public services and welfare.

sabat

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Like what you typed above, socialism has just been rejected outright by the UK. You are not in touch with what is going on there, not at all.

It will be extremely interesting to see what happens in all of these constituencies when the people realise that not only is Brexit not the answer to ingrained intergenerational deprivation, but that things will get even worse for them under the Tories. The list is almost like a roll-call of post-industrial decline in Northern England:

https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2019/12/2019-general-election-conservative-seats-gained-and-lost.html

It's very difficult for the average Irish person to comprehend the mindset of the most disadvantaged voting for Johnson, JRM et al, given that we don't suffer from the Stockholm Syndrome caused by the British class system.