Fierce whingeing

Silentcorner

Articles like this have been appearing in media for a few years now...they are a huge click driver for media companies who know that if you outrage people with emotive content they, especially women, are more likely to share/react...

We can see the consequence today...unless you think that all these feminists became feminists of their own free will!

El_Duderino 09

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

It’s okay to talk about specific issues if context isn’t forgotten, but it always is.
Women not proportionately represented in business is seen as a problem, men not in teaching not so much. Men not ironing or vaccuming an issue, women not feeding cattle or mowing lawns isn’t seen as one.

So how does that actually look in reality. You started this thread because you read 2 articles that annoyed/triggered/amused you. You said you want articles to take a broad approach to issues. You haven't actually said how broad the approach should be. It should the context always be a tribute to men?

What you're proposing sounds like a kind of "PC gone mad" where you always have to pad an article with additional information to create balance.

Should this issue only apply to gendered issues? Should the Irish cancer society have to speak about the heart foundation and the mental health every time it wants to raise an issue about cancer?

Just for clarity, I think people should be able to write about whatever issues they want. If people have experience of a particular issue, then they should be free to discuss that particular issue.
And I would love to see more articles about mens issues. I've no doubt that some people would prefer to whinge about the lack of articles about men than actually have articles about men's issues.

Sunny Disposition

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

One was about the Belfast rape trial, an incident where no crime was committed.

The defendants were found not guilty.
Why do you think there was no crime committed?

Edgware

Women are burdened with housework because they want to change curtains, bedspreads etc every second day, see dust where it doesnt exist and generally try to keep up with the other Stepford Wives

Amirani

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So what would you propose? Women don't highlight issues that are important to them and men also don't highlight issues that are important to them? Women continue to do the bulk of the housework after their day job and men continue to get injured in work and die younger, and nobody ever highlight any issues. Just pretend everything is perfect.

It's not the job of society to change the balance of unpaid work in individual households, that's up to the people themselves.

I do more housework than my female partner because she has a more demanding job, with generally longer and less standard hours. That works for us. Regardless, it's no business of the rest of society how much fecking cooking each of us does.

El_Duderino 09

Edgware wrote: »

Women are burdened with housework because they want to change curtains, bedspreads etc every second day, see dust where it doesnt exist and generally try to keep up with the other Stepford Wives

Ah come on. Try this one. Men work in dangerous and stressful jobs and because they want to change their car every year and go on foreign holidays every month so they can keep up with the Jones. No wonder they have high suicide rates - they bring it on themselves, don't they?

BlackandGreen

This forum is honestly fúcking embarrassing to read most days.

El_Duderino 09

Amirani wrote: »

It's not the job of society to change the balance of unpaid work in individual households, that's up to the people themselves.

I do more housework than my female partner because she has a more demanding job, with generally longer and less standard hours. That works for us. Regardless, it's no business of the rest of society how much fecking cooking each of us does.

Is there something wrong with discussion about unpaid household work? You volunteered Information about your arrangement, and from the articles I've read on the subject, you might be in a Minority.

Isn't that kind of thing worth discussing? You didn't mind volunteering information on the subject which presented you in a positive light. I think it's a discussion worth having.

super_furry

Well at least you can say this thread delivers 100% on its title.

Edgware

Whats the point of the man doing the housework when her **** of a mother can come in and do it?

El_Duderino 09

Edgware wrote: »

Whats the point of the man doing the housework when her **** of a mother can come in and do it?

Lol. I love my mother in law. And my mother loves my Mrs. Maybe I just have too many good women in my life. Maybe that's why I don't seem to get the "women, amirite?" attitude.

Sunny Disposition

Amirani wrote: »

It's not the job of society to change the balance of unpaid work in individual households, that's up to the people themselves.

I do more housework than my female partner because she has a more demanding job, with generally longer and less standard hours. That works for us. Regardless, it's no business of the rest of society how much fecking cooking each of us does.

Read our best national papers and you’ll find out that it’s harder for her than you, she has to deal with guilt now as a consequence of you thoughtlessly doing more than ur share. It’s a disgrace.

Amirani

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Is there something wrong with discussion about unpaid household work? You volunteered Information about your arrangement, and from the articles I've read on the subject, you might be in a Minority.

Isn't that kind of thing worth discussing? You didn't mind volunteering information on the subject which presented you in a positive light. I think it's a discussion worth having.

It's a discussion for partners who share a household to have. It makes no difference to me what system other people follow, same as it makes no difference to anybody else what me and my partner do.

Any discussion where you take a blunt average of the entire population and extrapolate conclusions is fairly useless. Moncrieff's article today being a prime example of really adding nothing of value to the discourse. On average women do more unpaid housework than men (this is true), conclusion - men need to do more housework. That's pretty banal.

What value do you think having such a generalised discussion brings?

El_Duderino 09

Amirani wrote: »

It's a discussion for partners who share a household to have. It makes no difference to me what system other people follow, same as it makes no difference to anybody else what me and my partner do.

Any discussion where you take a blunt average of the entire population and extrapolate conclusions is fairly useless. Moncrieff's article today being a prime example of really adding nothing of value to the discourse. On average women do more unpaid housework than men (this is true), conclusion - men need to do more housework. That's pretty banal.

What value do you think having such a generalised discussion brings?

The value of having a discussion is obvious. It shows how other people do things and encourages people to evaluate whether they're doing things because it suits them or because they never thought about and it turns out it's not actually suiting them.

E.g. Old days: man is breadwinner and woman is homemaker and carer.
Modern days: mix of family types. Lots where both partners are breadwinners and still women do most of the unpaid work because that's the way it's always been done. E.g. women do the bulk.of caring for their own parents in old age but daughters in law also do more than their share of caring for parents in law.

Maybe the parents are of the old school and haven't discussed the impact of their expectations. Some parents might jot be comfortable with being cared for my a man but that's the way the modern world is.

Solution: have the discussions. Parents might be much more receptive to being cared for by male children instead of expecting the woman to do it. That leaves the couple more free to divide their own work between them.

TL:DT Discussion encourages people to reevaluate and cut their cloth to measure their situation and suit themselves. That's a good thing in my opinion.

Does that answer your question?

Church on Tuesday

bluewolf wrote: »

Pretty sure that changed a few years ago

Yeah, on condition of course;

"automatic guardianship can now be granted to a father who can prove he has cohabited with the child’s mother for at least 12 consecutive months including at least 3 months after the birth of the child."

Edgware

I remember years ago I was out of work following a car crash. I used drop the kids to school, do the shopping, get the grub ready and collect them from the school. There was women at the school gate who had a big puss on them because I was able to do "their job"

EmmetSpiceland

Edgware wrote: »

I remember years ago I was out of work following a car crash. I used drop the kids to school, do the shopping, get the grub ready and collect them from the school. There was women at the school gate who had a big puss on them because I was able to do "their job"

Well it’s obvious why, E. You took up the mantle for the golden years without having done the hard 4 or 5 year slog that comes before the schooling.

Understandable, in fairness.

Sorry about that

Edgware wrote: »

I remember years ago I was out of work following a car crash. I used drop the kids to school, do the shopping, get the grub ready and collect them from the school. There was women at the school gate who had a big puss on them because I was able to do "their job"

Seriously??!! Maybe (probably) their pusses, as you perceived them, had nothing in the world to do with you. They might have been tired, worried, or just have bitchy resting faces.

I'm a stay at home Mam (apart from a v part time job), and I don't even think about other parents at the school gate. I'm thinking about what's in it for dinner, what's in it for tomorrow's lunch boxes.
For all we know, I could be one of those women you're on about!

The various media are feeding aggression between the sexes. Adverts constantly dumb-down men, while presenting women as haughty know it alls who sneer at their partners. Meanwhile porn tells men that they can have and do anything they like- they can sure as s**t look on anyway...
We're being drawn more and more into combat- Louise O Neil, Harvey
Weinstein, Daddy dumbass Pig, #metoo...
Time for a rewind.

jcorr

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

My favourite ever whinge from one of these new wave feminists was when Una Mullally suggested (and not on April 1st) that the only reason the lead in Star Wars Rouge One was given to a female was to distract away from the fact that the film had an otherwise all male cast

'Rouge' One actually was fierce whingey from what I can remember.

Moghead

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Yeah, on condition of course;

"automatic guardianship can now be granted to a father who can prove he has cohabited with the child’s mother for at least 12 consecutive months including at least 3 months after the birth of the child."

That would ensure a rapist wouldn't have access to a child if their victim became pregnant and decided to go through with it.

Church on Tuesday

Moghead wrote: »

That would ensure a rapist wouldn't have access to a child if their victim became pregnant and decided to go through with it.

the_pen_turner

Moghead wrote: »

That would ensure a rapist wouldn't have access to a child if their victim became pregnant and decided to go through with it.

how often does that happen.




compare that to how many fathers out there from short relationships or 1 night stands etc im sure that happens regularly

surely there should be some mecanism to remove such rights if it was rape

its a disgrace

El_Duderino 09

the_pen_turner wrote: »

how often does that happen.




compare that to how many fathers out there from short relationships or 1 night stands etc im sure that happens regularly

surely there should be some mecanism to remove such rights if it was rape

its a disgrace

I'm an advocate for father's rights, but I see the need to demonstrate things like fatherhood or at least being in a guardian role. Nobody would support the notion of any old bloke claiming rights to a child without reasonable evidence that they're the biological or practical father.

It's just more of the whinging the OP us talking about

the_pen_turner

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'm an advocate for father's rights, but I see the need to demonstrate things like fatherhood or at least being in a guardian role. Nobody would support the notion of any old bloke claiming rights to a child without reasonable evidence that they're the biological or practical father.

It's just more of the whinging the OP us talking about

how would you show that your a guardien or practical father if you have no rights and cant see your child

El_Duderino 09

the_pen_turner wrote: »

how would you show that your a guardien or practical father if you have no rights and cant see your child

By at least demonstrating that you lived with the child as the law says (according to the poster a few posts ago).

You could also demonstrate you're the father by biological tests.

Why would seeing the child help demonstrate to anyone that you're the father?

Mad_maxx

Edgware wrote: »

Women are burdened with housework because they want to change curtains, bedspreads etc every second day, see dust where it doesnt exist and generally try to keep up with the other Stepford Wives

My woman hardly ever hoovers, I do the vast majority of the cleaning in our house, some people are just not terribly tidy, her car is a tip

Edgware

Sorry about that wrote: »

Seriously??!! Maybe (probably) their pusses, as you perceived them, had nothing in the world to do with you. They might have been tired, worried, or just have bitchy resting faces.

I'm a stay at home Mam (apart from a v part time job), and I don't even think about other parents at the school gate. I'm thinking about what's in it for dinner, what's in it for tomorrow's lunch boxes.
For all we know, I could be one of those women you're on about!

The various media are feeding aggression between the sexes. Adverts constantly dumb-down men, while presenting women as haughty know it alls who sneer at their partners. Meanwhile porn tells men that they can have and do anything they like- they can sure as s**t look on anyway...
We're being drawn more and more into combat- Louise O Neil, Harvey
Weinstein, Daddy dumbass Pig, #metoo...
Time for a rewind.

Well you will know then how women make a big job of the housework. One good hours two or three times a week will keep the place tidy, a bit of planning ahead will have the meals right ( the little ****ers wont suffer if it is shepherds pie two days in a row).

Sunny Disposition

Even on a Sunday...

MrFresh

I see I've wandered into the men's suffrage thread. Discrimination against men is generally based on outdated views of women, some of which are espoused here. People saying women are better at housework and minding kids then complaining about courts siding with women when it comes to divorce and custody. Complaining about men being in physical jobs with high risk while also talking about the difference between the sexes. Can't have it both ways.

Bobblehats

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Even on a Sunday...

Sunday’s now a day of unrest