Fierce whingeing

Sunny Disposition

Two articles read already today about how badly society treats women.
One was about the Belfast rape trial, an incident where no crime was committed. The other was about housework, and said it wasn’t fair that women want to do things in the home men don’t want to.
Not a thing about men getting injured on building sites, society conditioning men to do almost all physical work.
This complaining is going too far and is completely one eyed. Men die earlier than women and have to do all the hardest and most dangerous work, apart from giving birth, of course.
There needs to be some cop on.

Odelay

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Two articles read already today about how badly society treats women.
One was about the Belfast rape trial, an incident where no crime was committed. The other was about housework, and said it wasn’t fair that women want to do things in the home men don’t want to.
Not a thing about men getting injured on building sites, society conditioning men to do almost all physical work.
This complaining is going too far and is completely one eyed. Men die earlier than women and have to do all the hardest and most dangerous work, apart from giving birth, of course.
There needs to be some cop on.

Giving birth these days is no big deal either. A lot of fuss over something that was done years ago no problem without the drugs they have today.

Hego Damask

Yep, 90% workplace deaths are men.
Men are far more likely to commit suicide , be homeless, have a drug problem, be alcoholics etc...

But but "Rape Culture" !!!

Sonny noggs

More binwomen please!

XsApollo

It’s nature.
Men are better at some things than women and women are better at popping out babies and cleaning the house.
Simples

Sonny noggs

XsApollo wrote: »

It’s nature.
Men are better at some things than women and women are better at popping out babies and cleaning the house.
Simples

Don’t forget making sandwiches.

Doctor Zhivago

Fierce spelling.

suicide_circus

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jan/29/julie-burchill-female-friendship-feminism

One eyed Jack

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

This complaining is going too far and is completely one eyed.

Sunny disposition my arse, quit whinging :pac:

Sunny Disposition

Tbf most women aren’t the complainers, it’s idiot types in the media who know that men (straight Irish men anyway) are a handy target.
Would like to see some of them footing turf or laying blocks.

Sonny noggs

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Tbf most women aren’t the complainers, it’s idiot types in the media who know that men (straight Irish men anyway) are a handy target.
Would like to see some of them footing turf or laying blocks.

Or laying cable

One eyed Jack

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Or laying cable

There’s probably a category for that on pornhub if you’re into watching women do that sort of thing :pac:

Sonny noggs

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There’s probably a category for that on pornhub if you’re into watching women do that sort of thing :pac:

There actually isn’t, or so I have been told.

El_Duderino 09

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Two articles read already today about how badly society treats women.
One was about the Belfast rape trial, an incident where no crime was committed. The other was about housework, and said it wasn’t fair that women want to do things in the home men don’t want to.
Not a thing about men getting injured on building sites, society conditioning men to do almost all physical work.
This complaining is going too far and is completely one eyed. Men die earlier than women and have to do all the hardest and most dangerous work, apart from giving birth, of course.
There needs to be some cop on.

So what would you propose? Women don't highlight issues that are important to them and men also don't highlight issues that are important to them? Women continue to do the bulk of the housework after their day job and men continue to get injured in work and die younger, and nobody ever highlight any issues. Just pretend everything is perfect.

Or maybe people should highlight issues that are of importance to them. Maybe they should angle for change to address those issues. Maybe you're perfectly happy with men suffering more work related injuries and dying younger, but I actually support highlighting those issues so we can do something about them as a society.

What it takes is for people to actually get up off their holes and do something to highlight this issues which are important to them even if it means swimming against the tide of public opinion.

You have fallen into the classic position of dismissing the concerns raised by other people and wondering why those other people aren't already aware of your own concerns and willing to take them seriously.

Sunny Disposition

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So what would you propose? Women don't highlight issues that are important to them and men also don't highlight issues that are important to them? Women continue to do the bulk of the housework after their day job and men continue to get injured in work and die younger, and nobody ever highlight any issues. Just pretend everything is perfect.

Or maybe people should highlight issues that are of importance to them. Maybe they should angle for change to address those issues. Maybe you're perfectly happy with men suffering more work related injuries and dying younger, but I actually support highlighting those issues so we can do something about them as a society.

What it takes is for people to actually get up off their holes and do something to highlight this issues which are important to them even if it means swimming against the tide of public opinion.

You have fallen into the classic position of dismissing the concerns raised by other people and wondering why those other people aren't already aware of your own concerns and willing to take them seriously.

What I propose is that people who are not willing to take a broad view stop writing about what they think is everyday sexism.
Btw everyone who has lived in Ireland for a few years knows that men do the majority of physical work here, that women are underrepresented in very tough work like blocklaying, farming and saving turf. Tough work like that is just left to men to take care of.

El_Duderino 09

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

What I propose is that people who are not willing to take a broad view stop writing about what they think is everyday sexism.
Btw everyone who has lived in Ireland for a few years knows that men do the majority of physical work here, that women are underrepresented in very tough work like blocklaying, farming and saving turf. Tough work like that is just left to men to take care of.

Careful what you wish for. I doubt you'd be any less unhappy if women started pushing to get into those jobs.

So you say people should only take a broad view if they are going to write about the issues. Ok. How broad should their view be? Should there never be an article about make suicide rates unless it also devotes equal time to female suicide? And gay suicide? And white suicide and BAME suicide?

Or should there be an article about suicide that doesn't also take a broad approach to death and also give equal time to cancer, heart attack, stroke etc?

Personally I think it's grand to write about specific issues. I don't know why you think every articke has to be broad. Maybe you'll tell us.

One eyed Jack

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

What I propose is that people who are not willing to take a broad view stop writing about what they think is everyday sexism.
Btw everyone who has lived in Ireland for a few years knows that men do the majority of physical work here, that women are underrepresented in very tough work like blocklaying, farming and saving turf. Tough work like that is just left to men to take care of.

When was the last time you hear of a man wiping some ould lads arse because he couldn’t do the job himself?

I’d sooner be blocklaying too tbh, can’t remember the last time I footed turf, as a child anyway a long time ago, and I know plenty of women who are involved in farming just as much as their husbands. Even if you had said manual labour, you’d still be wrong because there are plenty of filthy, hazardous to their physical and mental health occupations which are dominated by women where men are “under represented” :rolleyes:

Perhaps if you aren’t willing to take a broad view, you should stop writing about what you think is everyday sexism.

Outlaw Pete

My favourite ever whinge from one of these new wave feminists was when Una Mullally suggested (and not on April 1st) that the only reason the lead in Star Wars Rouge One was given to a female was to distract away from the fact that the film had an otherwise all male cast

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So what would you propose? Women don't highlight issues that are important to them and men also don't highlight issues that are important to them? Women continue to do the bulk of the housework after their day job and men continue to get injured in work and die younger, and nobody ever highlight any issues. Just pretend everything is perfect.

Or maybe people should highlight issues that are of importance to them. Maybe they should angle for change to address those issues. Maybe you're perfectly happy with men suffering more work related injuries and dying younger, but I actually support highlighting those issues so we can do something about them as a society.

What it takes is for people to actually get up off their holes and do something to highlight this issues which are important to them even if it means swimming against the tide of public opinion.

You have fallen into the classic position of dismissing the concerns raised by other people and wondering why those other people aren't already aware of your own concerns and willing to take them seriously.

Yeah ask the editor of a newspaper to highlight more men's issues. And see how you get on.

Sunny Disposition

One eyed Jack wrote: »

When was the last time you hear of a man wiping some ould lads arse because he couldn’t do the job himself?

I’d sooner be blocklaying too tbh, can’t remember the last time I footed turf, as a child anyway a long time ago, and I know plenty of women who are involved in farming just as much as their husbands. Even if you had said manual labour, you’d still be wrong because there are plenty of filthy, hazardous to their physical and mental health occupations which are dominated by women where men are “under represented” :rolleyes:

Perhaps if you aren’t willing to take a broad view, you should stop writing about what you think is everyday sexism.

I’ve a brother who works with the elderly doing the kind of stuff you just mentioned, so the last time I heard about it was on Wed/Thursday. But of course ur right, there are difficult areas where men are underrepresented, nursing is certainly one. Teaching is another. However women are under represented in other v demanding areas such as the front line side of construction.

Am totally willing to take a broad view, that’s what I’m complaining about aspects of the media not doing, more likely to denigrate the contribution made to family/industry by men and laud that of women. IMO that is unfair.

Sunny Disposition

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Careful what you wish for. I doubt you'd be any less unhappy if women started pushing to get into those jobs.

So you say people should only take a broad view if they are going to write about the issues. Ok. How broad should their view be? Should there never be an article about make suicide rates unless it also devotes equal time to female suicide? And gay suicide? And white suicide and BAME suicide?

Or should there be an article about suicide that doesn't also take a broad approach to death and also give equal time to cancer, heart attack, stroke etc?

Personally I think it's grand to write about specific issues. I don't know why you think every articke has to be broad. Maybe you'll tell us.

It’s okay to talk about specific issues if context isn’t forgotten, but it always is.
Women not proportionately represented in business is seen as a problem, men not in teaching not so much. Men not ironing or vaccuming an issue, women not feeding cattle or mowing lawns isn’t seen as one.

Pac1Man

Since men are about 60% stronger than women in the upper body, why wouldn't they (we) be doing the kind of jobs that require this attribute?? You don't need any formal education, can leave school and start one of these strength focused trades. Or stay in school and choose a less demanding job.

It's like complaining there are not enough tall jockeys.

Faugheen

The only complaining I see around here are men whinging about women standing up for themselves.

Your Face

Faugheen wrote: »

The only complaining I see around here are men whinging about women standing up for themselves.

The trap has been baited...patience...wait...wait

One eyed Jack

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

My favourite ever whinge from one of these new wave feminists was when Una Mullally suggested (and not on April 1st) that the only reason the lead in Star Wars Rouge One was given to a female was to distract away from the fact that the film had an otherwise all male cast

The best whinge I’ve ever heard was the NWCI’s claim that 1 in 4 homeless people are women

Church on Tuesday

Let's not forget unmarried men here have no automatic legal rights whatsoever in relation to their child and any custody...

Outlaw Pete

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The best whinge I’ve ever heard was the NWCI’s claim that 1 in 4 homeless people are women

Oh they've had some doozies alright. Another two:

"Imagine if men and were as disgusted with rape as they are with periods"

And this one's like it came from an episode of Brass Eye:

Men stab, rape and kill women because they can. It's time to say they can't

They're usually quoting some buzzfeed or Guardian article when they come out with stuff like that, and tax payer funded too, nice work if you can get it.

An example would be when they tweeted a link to an article with the tagline: "A moment that changed me: lashing out at a man who opened the door for the newly thin me" which is essentially an article by a middle aged feminist who lost a lot of weight and then ate the head off a guy who opened the door for her as she knew he wouldn't have if she hadn't lost all the weight. And no, the article wasn't in the Onion, it was in The Guardian.

Church on Tuesday

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Let's not forget unmarried men here have no automatic legal rights whatsoever in relation to their child and any custody...

Pretty sure that changed a few years ago

An article about women that didn't focus on men? Down with that sort of thing.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah ask the editor of a newspaper to highlight more men's issues. And see how you get on.

Ah I see. If the editor of a newspaper doesn't do what you want immediately, then what? Throw your hands up and your toys out of the pram?

Do you think social changed is easy to achieve or something? If so, What on earth gave you that impression?

Calhoun

We are in whinge ception mode now, how deep have we gone ? Someone check the spin top.

Silentcorner

Articles like this have been appearing in media for a few years now...they are a huge click driver for media companies who know that if you outrage people with emotive content they, especially women, are more likely to share/react...

We can see the consequence today...unless you think that all these feminists became feminists of their own free will!

El_Duderino 09

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

It’s okay to talk about specific issues if context isn’t forgotten, but it always is.
Women not proportionately represented in business is seen as a problem, men not in teaching not so much. Men not ironing or vaccuming an issue, women not feeding cattle or mowing lawns isn’t seen as one.

So how does that actually look in reality. You started this thread because you read 2 articles that annoyed/triggered/amused you. You said you want articles to take a broad approach to issues. You haven't actually said how broad the approach should be. It should the context always be a tribute to men?

What you're proposing sounds like a kind of "PC gone mad" where you always have to pad an article with additional information to create balance.

Should this issue only apply to gendered issues? Should the Irish cancer society have to speak about the heart foundation and the mental health every time it wants to raise an issue about cancer?

Just for clarity, I think people should be able to write about whatever issues they want. If people have experience of a particular issue, then they should be free to discuss that particular issue.
And I would love to see more articles about mens issues. I've no doubt that some people would prefer to whinge about the lack of articles about men than actually have articles about men's issues.

Sunny Disposition

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

One was about the Belfast rape trial, an incident where no crime was committed.

The defendants were found not guilty.
Why do you think there was no crime committed?

Edgware

Women are burdened with housework because they want to change curtains, bedspreads etc every second day, see dust where it doesnt exist and generally try to keep up with the other Stepford Wives

Amirani

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So what would you propose? Women don't highlight issues that are important to them and men also don't highlight issues that are important to them? Women continue to do the bulk of the housework after their day job and men continue to get injured in work and die younger, and nobody ever highlight any issues. Just pretend everything is perfect.

It's not the job of society to change the balance of unpaid work in individual households, that's up to the people themselves.

I do more housework than my female partner because she has a more demanding job, with generally longer and less standard hours. That works for us. Regardless, it's no business of the rest of society how much fecking cooking each of us does.

El_Duderino 09

Edgware wrote: »

Women are burdened with housework because they want to change curtains, bedspreads etc every second day, see dust where it doesnt exist and generally try to keep up with the other Stepford Wives

Ah come on. Try this one. Men work in dangerous and stressful jobs and because they want to change their car every year and go on foreign holidays every month so they can keep up with the Jones. No wonder they have high suicide rates - they bring it on themselves, don't they?

BlackandGreen

This forum is honestly fúcking embarrassing to read most days.

El_Duderino 09

Amirani wrote: »

It's not the job of society to change the balance of unpaid work in individual households, that's up to the people themselves.

I do more housework than my female partner because she has a more demanding job, with generally longer and less standard hours. That works for us. Regardless, it's no business of the rest of society how much fecking cooking each of us does.

Is there something wrong with discussion about unpaid household work? You volunteered Information about your arrangement, and from the articles I've read on the subject, you might be in a Minority.

Isn't that kind of thing worth discussing? You didn't mind volunteering information on the subject which presented you in a positive light. I think it's a discussion worth having.

super_furry

Well at least you can say this thread delivers 100% on its title.

Edgware

Whats the point of the man doing the housework when her **** of a mother can come in and do it?

El_Duderino 09

Edgware wrote: »

Whats the point of the man doing the housework when her **** of a mother can come in and do it?

Lol. I love my mother in law. And my mother loves my Mrs. Maybe I just have too many good women in my life. Maybe that's why I don't seem to get the "women, amirite?" attitude.

Sunny Disposition

Amirani wrote: »

It's not the job of society to change the balance of unpaid work in individual households, that's up to the people themselves.

I do more housework than my female partner because she has a more demanding job, with generally longer and less standard hours. That works for us. Regardless, it's no business of the rest of society how much fecking cooking each of us does.

Read our best national papers and you’ll find out that it’s harder for her than you, she has to deal with guilt now as a consequence of you thoughtlessly doing more than ur share. It’s a disgrace.

Amirani

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Is there something wrong with discussion about unpaid household work? You volunteered Information about your arrangement, and from the articles I've read on the subject, you might be in a Minority.

Isn't that kind of thing worth discussing? You didn't mind volunteering information on the subject which presented you in a positive light. I think it's a discussion worth having.

It's a discussion for partners who share a household to have. It makes no difference to me what system other people follow, same as it makes no difference to anybody else what me and my partner do.

Any discussion where you take a blunt average of the entire population and extrapolate conclusions is fairly useless. Moncrieff's article today being a prime example of really adding nothing of value to the discourse. On average women do more unpaid housework than men (this is true), conclusion - men need to do more housework. That's pretty banal.

What value do you think having such a generalised discussion brings?

El_Duderino 09

Amirani wrote: »

It's a discussion for partners who share a household to have. It makes no difference to me what system other people follow, same as it makes no difference to anybody else what me and my partner do.

Any discussion where you take a blunt average of the entire population and extrapolate conclusions is fairly useless. Moncrieff's article today being a prime example of really adding nothing of value to the discourse. On average women do more unpaid housework than men (this is true), conclusion - men need to do more housework. That's pretty banal.

What value do you think having such a generalised discussion brings?

The value of having a discussion is obvious. It shows how other people do things and encourages people to evaluate whether they're doing things because it suits them or because they never thought about and it turns out it's not actually suiting them.

E.g. Old days: man is breadwinner and woman is homemaker and carer.
Modern days: mix of family types. Lots where both partners are breadwinners and still women do most of the unpaid work because that's the way it's always been done. E.g. women do the bulk.of caring for their own parents in old age but daughters in law also do more than their share of caring for parents in law.

Maybe the parents are of the old school and haven't discussed the impact of their expectations. Some parents might jot be comfortable with being cared for my a man but that's the way the modern world is.

Solution: have the discussions. Parents might be much more receptive to being cared for by male children instead of expecting the woman to do it. That leaves the couple more free to divide their own work between them.

TL:DT Discussion encourages people to reevaluate and cut their cloth to measure their situation and suit themselves. That's a good thing in my opinion.

Does that answer your question?

Church on Tuesday

bluewolf wrote: »

Pretty sure that changed a few years ago

Yeah, on condition of course;

"automatic guardianship can now be granted to a father who can prove he has cohabited with the child’s mother for at least 12 consecutive months including at least 3 months after the birth of the child."

Edgware

I remember years ago I was out of work following a car crash. I used drop the kids to school, do the shopping, get the grub ready and collect them from the school. There was women at the school gate who had a big puss on them because I was able to do "their job"

EmmetSpiceland

Edgware wrote: »

I remember years ago I was out of work following a car crash. I used drop the kids to school, do the shopping, get the grub ready and collect them from the school. There was women at the school gate who had a big puss on them because I was able to do "their job"

Well it’s obvious why, E. You took up the mantle for the golden years without having done the hard 4 or 5 year slog that comes before the schooling.

Understandable, in fairness.

Sorry about that

Edgware wrote: »

I remember years ago I was out of work following a car crash. I used drop the kids to school, do the shopping, get the grub ready and collect them from the school. There was women at the school gate who had a big puss on them because I was able to do "their job"

Seriously??!! Maybe (probably) their pusses, as you perceived them, had nothing in the world to do with you. They might have been tired, worried, or just have bitchy resting faces.

I'm a stay at home Mam (apart from a v part time job), and I don't even think about other parents at the school gate. I'm thinking about what's in it for dinner, what's in it for tomorrow's lunch boxes.
For all we know, I could be one of those women you're on about!

The various media are feeding aggression between the sexes. Adverts constantly dumb-down men, while presenting women as haughty know it alls who sneer at their partners. Meanwhile porn tells men that they can have and do anything they like- they can sure as s**t look on anyway...
We're being drawn more and more into combat- Louise O Neil, Harvey
Weinstein, Daddy dumbass Pig, #metoo...
Time for a rewind.

jcorr

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

My favourite ever whinge from one of these new wave feminists was when Una Mullally suggested (and not on April 1st) that the only reason the lead in Star Wars Rouge One was given to a female was to distract away from the fact that the film had an otherwise all male cast

'Rouge' One actually was fierce whingey from what I can remember.

Moghead

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Yeah, on condition of course;

"automatic guardianship can now be granted to a father who can prove he has cohabited with the child’s mother for at least 12 consecutive months including at least 3 months after the birth of the child."

That would ensure a rapist wouldn't have access to a child if their victim became pregnant and decided to go through with it.