Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Penn

mcgovern wrote: »

Ah yes, of course, it must have been those video games. There was no murder before they were invented...
From everything I've heard both sets of boys came from loving homes. They both have siblings who haven't murdered anyone yet. Maybe they weren't monitored enough, maybe something went on behind closed doors, but sometimes people are just sick in the head.

Agreed. Some people just have that combination of lack of empathy, violent desires and whatever other psychological tendencies which surpasses any kind of rationality or sense that would stop them from committing such acts. Maybe these things might be exacerbated by games or movies or poor family life, but there must be something psychologically wrong with them to begin with.

the butcher

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Psychologist's testimony for Boy B was excluded. That'll form the basis of an appeal. Doctor had stated that he had PTSD as a result of witnessing the attack and was trying to cover himself with lies. Had he known she was about to be killed then why collect her from the house then walk through a park with lots of CCTV. He didn't represent himself well but he may have been a stupid kid manipulated by a more evil one. We may never know. But I think he'll be freed on appeal.

There was extra proof that he was lying for the 9th interview in a row if that evidence got included.

"Calling him as a witness carried a risk, however. During Boy B’s sessions with the doctor he had given him information about what he saw in the abandoned house that day, information he had failed to give the Garda.

The boy told the doctor he saw Boy A standing over Ana with his trousers open during the attack. And that he saw Ana gasping before going silent.

If Humphries gave defence evidence he would likely be open to cross-examination on these matters, reinforcing the notion that Boy B continued to lie to gardaí up to his final interview."

IvoryTower

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

I have played video games since the days of the Atari 2600, the progression of them has gone completely the wrong way.

Majorly violent and some x rated.

You have a lot of maybes,

Maybe what i am saying has some logic to it and would do no harm to implement it, and the outcomes Maybe better for everyone.

That was my first console too!

But anyway, majority violent? Naaahhhh, do you count fortnite as violent? 1000s of games to pick from I cant think of too many ott violent games. Haven't exactly gone looking for them mind

tayto lover

tuxy wrote: »

That's exactly what I was thinking and after the excellent job the Garda did on this case I think it's an insult to start claiming they were negligent at this stage.

The phone in the Dunleer murder case (which we can’t discuss as it’s still a live investigation) never showed up either. The Garda can do a lot of things with phones but they can’t find something that’s smashed and buried/burner or whatever. That’s another very disturbing case that has yet to come to court involving young people.

the butcher

What annoys me still is the parents of Boy A. The thought process goes to show the lengths some will go to protect their own, regardless of the reality presented to them.

Your son comes home, bloodstained..you would immediately ask what happened and check for the cuts/wounds/source of the bleeding. No signs of bleeding....you hear he's attacked by 2 adult men with "inner city accents". Somehow your 13 year old son managed to overpower them both and kick one in the head standing up. A kick so hard the man bled enough to stain BOTH boots. You decide to clean his clothes and wash them overnight?!

Instead of initially ringing the Gardai, you go back down to the park to check about with your son. And at some stage bump into Gardai and tell them to check somewhere else?! Not tell them there and then your son was attacked?!

Greyfox

Boggles wrote: »

IF someone supports or engages in mob justice, it's very little to do with their thought out feelings of the Justice System and all to do with the fact they are a clinical moron.

If I had a friend who thought like this I would struggle to stay friends with them as I would believe they have no empathy for victims. We clearly have an issue with our justice system been too lenient. Mob justice is terrible but its better than letting criminals walk free

weldoninhio

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

I have played video games since the days of the Atari 2600, the progression of them has gone completely the wrong way.

Majorly violent and some x rated.

You have a lot of maybes,

Maybe what i am saying has some logic to it and would do no harm to implement it, and the outcomes Maybe better for everyone.

Before video games and porn, it was Marilyn Manson and other devils music, before that it was rock and roll, before that it as scurrilous novels etc.

JuneMoon7

pablo128 wrote: »

My daughter is 10 and already as tall as her mother. She is noticeably taller than all the other kids in her class. I got bullied myself in school and by fcuk I'll raise hell if I find out other kids are bullying her. I would do likewise if I found out she was bullying other children too.

Fair play to Mr Kriegel for keeping his composure and dignity. I'm not sure if I could have.

I was bullied as well, and one thing i'll never forget was how in my very first year of school, 13 years of age, boys being very sexually agressive. This was the 90s, long before wide use of internet, and they would comw out with filthy things and try to grope you. Traumatic. Not to mention some girls being absolute bitches. Something happens (some, not all, thankfully) young people once they start transitioning from childhood to adulthood, it turns them into monsters

the butcher

the butcher wrote: »

There was extra proof that he was lying for the 9th interview in a row if that evidence got included.

"Calling him as a witness carried a risk, however. During Boy B’s sessions with the doctor he had given him information about what he saw in the abandoned house that day, information he had failed to give the Garda.

The boy told the doctor he saw Boy A standing over Ana with his trousers open during the attack. And that he saw Ana gasping before going silent.

If Humphries gave defence evidence he would likely be open to cross-examination on these matters, reinforcing the notion that Boy B continued to lie to gardaí up to his final interview."

Someone noticed something about this earlier. Wasn’t Boy A wearing tracksuit bottoms? If so, would his trouser be “down” rather than “open”?

Methinks Boy B May have been telling porkies to the professional psychologist too if Boy As attire was tracksuit bottoms.

TheAsYLuMkeY

IvoryTower wrote: »

That was my first console too!

But anyway, majority violent? Naaahhhh, do you count fortnite as violent? 1000s of games to pick from I cant think of too many ott violent games. Haven't exactly gone looking for them mind

Example: go back about 15 years, PS2 game called 'Manhunt', read down through the page, murder in england was at the beginning linked with an obsession of this game, later not, but that could have been simply because it was to difficult to prove and could end in litigation from the makers.

The game gave you higher scores for the more gruesome the death or lethal the weapon used.

Now that was 15 years ago, there was a sequel to the game, i imagine there are similar or worse games out there today, and possibly in VR environment.

Our brains process and store these images into memory, you may not recall it to the forefront of your mind every day, but everything we experience and consume mentally shapes who we are, and how we interpret the world.

Boggles

Greyfox wrote: »

If I had a friend who thought like this I would struggle to stay friends with them as I would believe they have no empathy for victims. We clearly have an issue with our justice system been too lenient.

So you think someone who doesn't encourage or engage in mob justice has no empathy with victims of crime?

Greyfox wrote: »

Mob justice is terrible but its better than letting criminals walk free

No it isn't. That's just moronic nonsense.

tayto lover

JuneMoon7 wrote: »

I was bullied as well, and one thing i'll never forget was how in my very first year of school, 13 years of age, boys being very sexually agressive. This was the 90s, long before wide use of internet, and they would comw out with filthy things and try to grope you. Traumatic. Not to mention some girls being absolute bitches. Something happens (some, not all, thankfully) young people once they start transitioning from childhood to adulthood, it turns them into monsters

I knew of a bullying case in a small school in the country.
11 girls in 5th class. One girl being victimized and bullied by the other ten.
One of the girls has a birthday party, all invited except the bullied girl.
During the party each girl in turn phones the bullied girl to gloat and tell her how much fun they’re all having. 10 phone calls to this poor girl who has to go and sit in that classroom with these bullies on the following Monday.
School did fcuk all about it either.

Youngsters can be very cruel. We should never forget it.

rob316

Boggles wrote: »

Big difference between feeling angry and engaging in mob justice.

That mentality comes from the same sick well as Boy A dipped into.

The same sickwell? Are you serious, are you actually reading what your posting.

Take your high horse and ride the **** out of here you clown

Aisling_Dublin

El_Bee wrote: »

This has absolutely nothing to do with mental illness, these boys are not mentally ill.

Psychopathy is an illness, psychopaths are born unable to feel mercy, empathy and sympathy.

muob

The Royal Court of Social Mafia is in situ...

Mob Justice....

Calls to get their names out there to add further misery to their families, gang up en masse on two CHILDREN/teenagers who have been charged with evil wishes for their rapes, beatings while in detention....that is a SICK reaction to a very serious crime with very tragic consequences for so many people for years to come - families of those charged totally devastated, destroyed, broken, siblings, parents, grandparents all affected & you wish to heap further misery & suffering on them...maybe try open your hearts a little and put yourself in their shoes while being a little less judgemental.

Afaik the purpose of detention and prison, most
Importantly for Juvenile Detention, is/should be to REHABILITATE so the accused re- emerges as an adjusted member of society not beat them to a pulp while they are inside as some of posters on here seem to be wishing for.

This is no way condones or excuses any aspect of this horrific crime or lessens in any way my sincerest sympathies to the parents & family of Ana.

sonic85

Hal3000 wrote: »

The reason people support mob justice is because of our soft touch justice system. How would you feel if this happened to your daughter only to see the perpetrators get a joke of a sentence and then set up with new identities and new lives. If our Justice system was strong and fair then maybe people would stop baying for blood.

I don't have a daughter but I have a little sister and god forbid if something happened to her I wouldn't be able to restrain myself.

Humans are strange creatures really. If a dog attacked me tomorrow and tore a few chunks out of me it would be put down but if a human kicks the sh!te out of me stamps on my head and kills me then they get shoved into a small room for a few years. Their liberty is restricted yes but I'd imagine after a bit of time they would acclimatise to it and then lead a reasonably good existence with good meals,TV, shop to buy supplies, gym, possibility of gaining an education. Where's the justice in that? You could argue that prison is not really a punishment anymore, just a bit of an obstacle to get over. These lads will be out and about before they're 30 FFS!

Meathcat

HalloweenJack wrote: »

What difference does it make if their names are out there?

People don't have to worry about them until they're released. Getting their names now will only cause trouble for their families and satisfy people's curiosity, nothing more.

I totally agree with you there. Whatever about the two boys, they are bound to have siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles and grandparents who will all be tarred with the same brush and may become the victims of bullying themselves. I'm sure some people will deny that would happen but mob mentality rules and it would get out 'That's the sister of Boy B' or whatever. I deliberately left parents out of my list because to be honest, I'm not sure the parents really deserve a break here. Ok so they didn't know what the boys were up to but is that not the job of a parent? Surely they should at the very least have been monitoring what their sons were watching/downloading etc. These were 13 year olds and by all accounts, Boy A was at this crack for a while.

My other approach to agreeing with not releasing their identities is that once their faces and names are out there, it will become all about them and who they are. It shouldn't be about them, it should be about Ana Kriegel and preserving her memory. Not about their faces and names. And with the best will in the world, that's what will happen. It sounds to me like they are the kind of boys who would revel in the notoriety and that shouldn't be allowed to happen. On a Facebook comment yesterday, someone mentioned the case of Shan Mohangi but admitted they couldn't remember his victim's name offhand. That's because the case is still all about him, not his victim. I feel this would be an insult to Ana Kriegel and her memory.

rob316

Sociopathic children is a very real thing. You could raise your child with the best intentions but it won't matter they are programmed to be evil.

beggars_bush

tayto lover wrote: »

I knew of a bullying case in a small school in the country.
11 girls in 5th class. One girl being victimized and bullied by the other ten.
One of the girls has a birthday party, all invited except the bullied girl.
During the party each girl in turn phones the bullied girl to gloat and tell her how much fun they’re all having. 10 phone calls to this poor girl who has to go and sit in that classroom with these bullies on the following Monday.
School did fcuk all about it either.

Youngsters can be very cruel. We should never forget it.

what could the school do about a party outside of school?

EDIT, also why do 5th class girls need phones?

Boggles

rob316 wrote: »

The same sickwell? Are you serious, are you actually reading what your posting.

Take your high horse and ride the **** out of here you clown

My lack of support for mob justice is nothing to with me being on a high horse and all to do with me not being a dribbling fúcktard.

Buy hey you are obviously super E-Hard. Good for you.

Wabbit Ears

muob wrote: »

The Royal Court of Social Mafia is in situ...

Mob Justice....

Calls to get their names out there to add further misery to their families, gang up en masse on two CHILDREN/teenagers who have been charged with evil wishes for their rapes, beatings while in detention....that is a SICK reaction to a very serious crime with very tragic consequences for so many people for years to come - families of those charged totally devastated, destroyed, broken, siblings, parents, grandparents all affected & you wish to heap further misery & suffering on them...maybe try open your hearts a little and put yourself in their shoes while being a little less judgemental.

Afaik the purpose of detention and prison, most
Importantly for Juvenile Detention, is/should be to REHABILITATE so the accused re- emerges as an adjusted member of society not beat them to a pulp while they are inside as some of posters on here seem to be wishing for.

This is no way condones or excuses any aspect of this horrific crime or lessens in any way my sincerest sympathies to the parents & family of Ana.

Nah, seriously, fcuk those guys.

Aisling_Dublin

Aisling_Dublin wrote: »

Psychopathy is an illness, psychopaths are born unable to feel mercy, empathy and sympathy.

Is it an illness though? Do all psychopaths go on to commit crimes or do some just lead average lives? Just because you feel no mercy, empathy or sympathy just makes you, you.

Ursus Horribilis

beggars_bush wrote: »

what could the school do about a party outside of school?

EDIT, also why do 5th class girls need phones?

The school couldn't do anything about the bullying here but where were the parents while they were ringing this girl up?

The parents will tell you that they need phones to keep in contract with their kids. I think it's a bit young but that genie is well out of the bottle.

mcgovern

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

Example: go back about 15 years, PS2 game called 'Manhunt', read down through the page, murder in england was at the beginning linked with an obsession of this game, later not, but that could have been simply because it was to difficult to prove and could end in litigation from the makers.

If you actually read through the page yourself, you'd see that it was later not linked to the murder, because the murderer didn't even have a copy of the game.

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

Now that was 15 years ago, there was a sequel to the game, i imagine there are similar or worse games out there today, and possibly in VR environment.

You 'imagine' there are worse, so of course the world must be awash with them. And the two boys obviously spent all day playing them, even though we don't actually know if they play video games at all.

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

Our brains process and store these images into memory, you may not recall it to the forefront of your mind every day, but everything we experience and consume mentally shapes who we are, and how we interpret the world.

The key word there, is 'everything'. Yet you seem set on blaming one particular medium, with no evidence to back it up. It's also not how memory works, but we won't get into that.

the butcher

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Someone noticed something about this earlier. Wasn’t Boy A wearing tracksuit bottoms? If so, would his trouser be “down” rather than “open”?

Methinks Boy B May have been telling porkies to the professional psychologist too if Boy As attire was tracksuit bottoms.

Also Boy B said he had seen the mask a couple of days beforehand in Boy A's house. And he said Boy A was wearing it for the "whole incident" in the room and never took it off.

Greyfox

Boggles wrote: »

So you think someone who doesn't encourage or engage in mob justice has no empathy with victims of crime?

No it isn't. That's just moronic nonsense.

We cant live in a society that doesnt have justice. I think in Ireland people who cant understand why some people encourage mob justice are people lacking empathy for victims. Not understanding the anger is cases like this is not normal. To call it moronic indicates to me that you care more about criminals. We wouldnt have this problem is we had decent judges

Lucuma

Standman wrote: »

Nope, it's called the right to remain silent. He dug the hole for himself and hopped into it.

Or another way of looking it is that he confessed.

That doesn't mean he shouldn't have been charged with murder. But it means there might be some hope of rehabilitation for him

TheAsYLuMkeY

mcgovern wrote: »

If you actually read through the page yourself, you'd see that it was later not linked to the murder, because the murderer didn't even have a copy of the game.

I did read it, the story didn't appear from nowhere and would not be unusual for facts to be distorted when big organisations stand to lose a fortune, i have also played it, seriously f**ked up game.

mcgovern wrote: »

You 'imagine' there are worse, so of course the world must be awash with them. And the two boys obviously spent all day playing them, even though we don't actually know if they play video games at all.

Wont be going looking, i know there are, also logic and odds would tell you they did play games if they were on the internet so freely and given the ubiquitous availability of video games and the playing of them by youth today.

mcgovern wrote: »

The key word there, is 'everything'. Yet you seem set on blaming one particular medium, with no evidence to back it up. It's also not how memory works, but we won't get into that.

Not blaming any one medium, if you read back over my posts.

ohnonotgmail

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

I did read it, the story didn't appear from nowhere and would not be unusual for facts to be distorted when big organisations stand to lose a fortune, i have also played it, seriously f**ked up game.



Wont be going looking, i know there are, also logic and odds would tell you they did play games if they were on the internet so freely and given the ubiquitous availability of video games and the playing of them by youth today.



Not blaming any one medium, if you read back over my posts.

do you know what is also not unusual? journalists making up stories.

Lucuma

the butcher wrote: »

What annoys me still is the parents of Boy A. The thought process goes to show the lengths some will go to protect their own, regardless of the reality presented to them.

Your son comes home, bloodstained..you would immediately ask what happened and check for the cuts/wounds/source of the bleeding. No signs of bleeding....you hear he's attacked by 2 adult men with "inner city accents". Somehow your 13 year old son managed to overpower them both and kick one in the head standing up. A kick so hard the man bled enough to stain BOTH boots. You decide to clean his clothes and wash them overnight?!

Instead of initially ringing the Gardai, you go back down to the park to check about with your son. And at some stage bump into Gardai and tell them to check somewhere else?! Not tell them there and then your son was attacked?!

You're leaving out the bit about the park ranger, did you read his evidence? He said he was in the park ranger's cabin when he heard a loud knocking on the door. An irate man was outside saying his son had been attacked in the park. The park ranger went over and had a look at the son sitting in the car and tried to talk to him.

That shows the mentality of Boy A's parents/father. Straight away looking for someone to blame because his precious little boy got hopped