Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

TheAsYLuMkeY

martingriff wrote: »

I agree with you 100% A and B killed her and they alone are accountable. I am not saying the parents should be more vigilant but hindsight and all that. All this vigilante mob to just get a piece of skin is dangerous. We already have wrong people been mentioned in places.

Jail them for life.

Prosecute parents for Neglect.

Change laws to encompass control of media and access to media by minors.

8-10

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

Jail them for life.

Prosecute parents for Neglect.

Change laws to encompass control of media and access to media by minors.

A “control of media” law?

There should be restrictions, sure, but I’d be careful how far you want this control to go

AudreyHepburn

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

Jail them for life.

Prosecute parents for Neglect.

Change laws to encompass control of media and access to media by minors.

I agree with 1 and 3 but 2 is completely unfair.

Why this need to blame everyone but two little thugs who are actually responsible?

gozunda

dickangel wrote: »

You just said if he admitted being at the scene his defence would be null and void....he can still not admit it and implicate Boy B.

Why do you think he didn't try to drop Boy B in it despite knowing he'd been thrown under the bus?

Exactly and that's the tie. He used the defence that he wasnt there and that has failed.

It is clear that both he and Boy B were there from the evidence and Boy B's own testimony.

You said

dickangel wrote:

Boy A was read the transcripts of Boy B's interviews and his only response was that Boy B was lying. Interestingly he didn't attempt to put blame on Boy B despite knowing he'd been thrown under the bus

Why did Boy A not implicate Boy B?
Boy A's defence that he wasnt there was never going to stand up in court in light of the forensics

Mantis Toboggan

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

My personal belief is that all parties in a trial should be kept anonymous until such time as verdict is reached. If and only if the accused are found guilty then right to anonymity should be rendered null and void. The victim/accuser should be given the choice.

Absolutely, any reason why in the Aaron Campbell case he was allowed to be identified?

pjohnson

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course we do, I have never once said otherwise.

But leaving revealing their identities in the hands of emotionally charged mobs (online or real world) solely out for revenge is dangerous.

Let be done properly by the authorities.

But the authorities will do nothing.

Lillyfae

CityRoad wrote: »

The only mystery is the unknown DNA on Ana's body, but don't worry he'll strike again.

What unknown DNA?

martingriff

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

Jail them for life.

Prosecute parents for Neglect.

Change laws to encompass control of media and access to media by minors.

1) 100% agree

2) what will this achieve

3) very hard to do with VPNs etc would love it

iamwhoiam

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I agree with 1 and 3 but 2 is completely unfair.

Why this need to blame everyone but two little thugs who are actually responsible?

Absolutely the two boys are responsible for killing Ana . But to learn from this we must explore if the relentless bullying of Ana contributed in any way to her being the target . She was demeaned and isolated and set apart . The boys saw her as an object to dispose of .

The school were pre warned by the mother that Ana was vulnerable . A staff member had told her she was worried about Anas transition to Secondary school , the mother told the school this
So what measures were in place to protect this young girl ?
Of course the connection is there and of course it needs looking at and exploring

Mrsmum

Why the frenzy to know their names and faces ? The are going nowhere for years yet and after that, Ireland is such a small country, it will just become public knowledge anyway.

TheAsYLuMkeY

8-10 wrote: »

A “control of media” law?

There should be restrictions, sure, but I’d be careful how far you want this control to go

In what regard?

We survived perfectly well before the advent of 'Smartphones', how about the below,

No minors legally allowed to own one, have unsupervised access to internet.

Let’s not be distracted from the point of what I am saying.

Children can be perfectly happy without Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter and all that other bo**ox etc.

Control of access to these platforms should be the same as it always was with Films etc. that were 18+, damn difficult to obtain and not permitted by parents until, you are over 16 or even 18.

The internet is a rabbit hole of the worst of humanity if you want to go looking for it, children should not be allowed to 'Surf it' (Another cool term applied to make it sound cool and not threatening)

Sheep breeder

As a parent of two similar aged girls, it is shocking how bullying is allowed and a blind eye turned to it by schools. A lot is to do with the parents and who they are perceived to be in society and there little angle could not be a bully.
So sad that this poor girl was given such a horrendous death and her family have to live this nightmare and people coming on here trying to defend murder.
The jury has not be given the credit they deserve for what they had to sit through day in day out and their lives have to have changed over this case and will never be the same people again. They are the people who heard the true details of the this horrific crime and made a correct verdict, not the people typing here, the Gardai in this case have restored my view and also have to be effected by what was seen and done in this case and have my respect for how the case was conducted from day one,
And Anna family have to live this everyday for the rest of their lives and have received a worse sentence that these two scum bags will ever receive. So thing about that before trying to justify boy B actions and guilt.

gozunda

shesty wrote: »

No I don't think there is any guarantee of that.There a large number of posts further back on the thread explaining it.And a few news articles have explained legislation around Children also.Can't remember exact detail but the aim is more to try to rehabilitate to go back into society I think.It is at the judge's discretion as far as I remember, but I don't think life is guaranteed by any means.

This

The two boys will be sentenced on July 15. While life sentences are mandatory in Irish law for adults in cases of murder, juveniles are treated differently.

In preparation for the sentencing, the presiding judge, Paul McDermott, has asked for probation, psychiatric and school reports on the two boys, which will be used, along with character witnesses and statements from those close to the victim, as guidelines.

AudreyHepburn

pjohnson wrote: »

But the authorities will do nothing.

No excuse for lawless vigilante action and acting like an unruly mob - anger and revenge fantasies won’t help anyone.

martingriff

pjohnson wrote: »

But the authorities will do nothing.

So leave it to an uncontrolled mob then? What if some "concerned" person decides to act on one of these and attack innocents. Who would you blame then

Fr Tod Umptious

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Wasn't Robert Houlihan's killer given a new identity and moved to the UK when he was released?
Same as James Bolger's killers.
I wonder could this be a possibility for these 2 animals when they leave detention.

As another poster pointed out he was not given a new identity, he just moved to the UK

Interesting how you don't use his name (Wayne O'Donoghue) though.

Is it because after 14 or 15 years it's not a name that is quick to recall even though back in 2006 you would have had it instantly ?

That's where I don't see the value in naming theses guys, in 15 years time will their names will not be as quick to be remembered as if they were available today.

As for the James Bolger killer Thompson.
He has not come to the police attention since his release.
He could be that 30 something year old English guy living at the end of your road.

AudreyHepburn

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Absolutely the two boys are responsible for killing Ana . But to learn from this we must explore if the relentless bullying of Ana contributed in any way to her being the target . She was demeaned and isolated and set apart . The boys saw her as an object to dispose of .

The school were pre warned by the mother that Ana was vulnerable . A staff member had told her she was worried about Anas transition to Secondary school , the mother told the school this
So what measures were in place to protect this young girl ?
Of course the connection is there and of course it needs looking at and exploring

Of course it does but that’s not what’s happening here. People still seem to be intent on blaming everyone but A&B as if they are two innocent little boys who were let down by their families, the school and the state.

pjohnson

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No excuse for lawless vigilante action and acting like an unruly mob - anger and revenge fantasies won’t help anyone.

martingriff wrote: »

So leave it to an uncontrolled mob then? What if some "concerned" person decides to act on one of these and attack innocents. Who would you blame then

The would be no innocents targeted if "justice" wasnt so concerned about protecting them. Only the murderers would face consequences then. Keeping it secret just leads to chinese whispers and false innocent people caught up in it.

martingriff

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Absolutely the two boys are responsible for killing Ana . But to learn from this we must explore if the relentless bullying of Ana contributed in any way to her being the target . She was demeaned and isolated and set apart . The boys saw her as an object to dispose of .

The school were pre warned by the mother that Ana was vulnerable . A staff member had told her she was worried about Anas transition to Secondary school , the mother told the school this
So what measures were in place to protect this young girl ?
Of course the connection is there and of course it needs looking at and exploring

What you described here is bullying and this has to be tackled in its whole and not just in the small scope of this killing

pjohnson

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course it does but that’s not what’s happening here. People still seem to be intent on blaming everyone but A&B as if they are two innocent little boys who were let down by their families, the school and the state.

I havent seen anyone (outside those wanting to protect the murderers ID) try to downplay what they did. People are just attributing additional blame onto others who did nothing to help Ana. You seem very concerned about excusing everyone else.

TheAsYLuMkeY

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I agree with 1 and 3 but 2 is completely unfair.

Why this need to blame everyone but two little thugs who are actually responsible?

My first line says jail the two of them for life, how is that not blaming them for this?

martingriff wrote: »

1) 100% agree

2) what will this achieve

3) very hard to do with VPNs etc would love it

Point two: wake parents up around the rest of the country that their inaction to safeguard their children from this exposure has consequences for them and their children.

Point three: If you dont actually have a physical device that can actually connect to the internet, VPN's mean nothing.
(In other words dont give them a laptop or 'Smartphone')

martingriff

pjohnson wrote: »

The would be no innocents targeted if "justice" wasnt so concerned about protecting them. Only the murderers would face consequences then. Keeping it secret just leads to chinese whispers and false innocent people caught up in it.

They are facing the consequences they were found guilty if you have forgotten. They will be going to jail for a long time (not long enough). What will knowing there name mean. The only person who should be known and remembered is Ana

gozunda

CityRoad wrote: »

I have been following this thread for a few days and although I have not read every post, I want to make a couple of points as I know some of the details of the background. I will not put the case at risk, I do not know the names or have any information on the boys or the family and I take my cue from the local community who have done a sterling job in waiting for the case to be tried and not risking it in anyway. I am torn about the confidentiality aspect, because I believe it follows the rehabilitation model of justice and I am not sure that some can be rehabilitated.

I mention the information as some think there may be non national element to it (there wasn't, they were good Irish boys!), that there is mental illness, that there is coercion by one on the other or any nonsense that the jury got this wrong. They did not.

1. Boy A & B were bullies at the local school, I know this as they bullied a child of a friend of mine constantly before the murder, so it could have been someone I know and love in the grave, instead of poor Ana. These boys worked as a bullying team, one is not more innocent than the other.

2. There are no learning issues, the school did not consider them to be problems in anyway whatsoever. There is no mental illness, there are no special ed needs, this is who they are.

3. Anyone that was their target was isolated by the others, including the child I know. It is not pleasant but it seems it was the only viable solution for the other kids.

My worry now is my friend's child and the long term effects, like survivors guilt.

In regards to the principal and counsellor at the local school they should be sacked, there is alot of negligence there, I would love to see some litigation or an inquiry on that.

If they are both mentally ill it's a folie a deux, if not it is joint enterprise, you cannot deliver someone to their death and claim innocence.

The Gardai did an amazing job in talking to the kids and handling the case.

The only mystery is the unknown DNA on Ana's body, but don't worry he'll strike again.

By that do you mean that other children in the school were isolating the bullied children to protect themselves from the attentions of these bullies?

pjohnson

martingriff wrote: »

They are facing the consequences they were found guilty if you have forgotten. They will be going to jail for a long time (not long enough). What will knowing there name mean. The only person who should be known and remembered is Ana

Well thats acceptable then I guess they can just live happily ever after then get on with their lives as if they never did anything.

TheAsYLuMkeY

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

My first line says jail the two of them for life, how is that not blaming them for this?



Point two: wake parents up around the rest of the country that their inaction to safeguard their children from this exposure has consequences for them and their children.

Point three: If you dont actually have a physical device that can actually connect to the internet, VPN's mean nothing.
(In other words dont give them a laptop or 'Smartphone')

Such BULL****. Put resources into rooting out bullying and children who have psychopathic tendencies FIRST. As the dad of 2 daughters who were bullied or at least it was attempted, this is what we need to tackle.

You can filter porn, horror films and romance novels but none of that will make a blind bit of difference.

I often wonder is this a cover for people who mercilessly bullied people themselves or see their kids doing it but say "ah sure it was the porn, I'm a good person."

martingriff

pjohnson wrote: »

The would be no innocents targeted if "justice" wasnt so concerned about protecting them. Only the murderers would face consequences then. Keeping it secret just leads to chinese whispers and false innocent people caught up in it.

Wait a second did you just say it's okay if innocent are targeted and it's not the mobs fault?!!! Unbelievable if anyone is hurt due to false info given by some concerned person then the person who did it and the concerned person should be held responsible

Dyr

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Absolutely the two boys are responsible for killing Ana . But to learn from this we must explore if the relentless bullying of Ana contributed in any way to her being the target . She was demeaned and isolated and set apart . The boys saw her as an object to dispose of .

Two psychos looking for a victim chose the most vulnerable, good looking girl that they knew. Lesson learned, unless you're like Ruth Coppinger and want to drag some poxy agenda into everything regardless.

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The school were pre warned by the mother that Ana was vulnerable . A staff member had told her she was worried about Anas transition to Secondary school , the mother told the school this
So what measures were in place to protect this young girl ?
Of course the connection is there and of course it needs looking at and exploring

Has the principal of her school faced any questions from authorities or the media? Did they try to deal with the bullying.

brendanwalsh

CityRoad wrote: »

I have been following this thread for a few days and although I have not read

The only mystery is the unknown DNA on Ana's body, but don't worry he'll strike again.

Is this correct ? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere that there was unknown dna on ana ?
Are you suggesting a 3rd party was involvd?

Did boys A parents try to get him out of the country??

pjohnson

martingriff wrote: »

Wait a second did you just say it's okay if innocent are targeted and it's not the mobs fault?!!! Unbelievable if anyone is hurt due to false info given by some concerned person then the person who did it and the concerned person should be held responsible

Your comprehension is not working. I meant its inevitable there will be mistaken identity when they bend over backwards to protect the murderers. If they weren't trying to hide their ID and just made it public officially then no innocent could possibly be attacked by a mob.

Its misinformation that causes those attacks. Misinformation is caused by the gardai tryna hide the actual information.