Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

SirChenjin · 20-06-2019 08:10AM

Yurt! wrote: »

I still hold that naming them would prompt a free-for-all. Perhaps the people of Lucan don't want to see pitchforks in their own community, but there is a definite element that would seek to harness public anger and cause scenes if the names were more widely known.

Leixlip.

Force Carrier · 20-06-2019 08:10AM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Is this correct ? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere that there was unknown dna on ana ?
Are you suggesting a 3rd party was involvd?

Did boys A parents try to get him out of the country??

There was 'Touch DNA' on her top that did not match boy A but which was an insufficient sample to be evidence of positively identifying someone else.

The DNA evidence you hear about in court cases and police investigations is mostly from blood and semen. Touch DNA is a more difficult and contentious source.

You could interpret the above information that it was not just boy A present during the attack and killing. And not just him that ripped her clothes off. Boy B being potentially the other. The evidence was not enough to establish this as a fact.

iamwhoiam · 20-06-2019 08:11AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course it does but that’s not what’s happening here. People still seem to be intent on blaming everyone but A&B as if they are two innocent little boys who were let down by their families, the school and the state.

Not on e post has said that .

Hal3000 · 20-06-2019 08:11AM

The reason people support mob justice is because of our soft touch justice system. How would you feel if this happened to your daughter only to see the perpetrators get a joke of a sentence and then set up with new identities and new lives. If our Justice system was strong and fair then maybe people would stop baying for blood.

gozunda · 20-06-2019 08:12AM

Yurt! wrote: »

Yes seriously. Vegans in aisle 5, repeat, vegans in aisle 5.

So Idiotic replies again...

Since you keep repeating this bs Btw what have got against vegans?
Like this one

Yurt! wrote: »

Vegans are cultists and complete dullards to be around. Constantly talking about their diet and pushing their pseudo science on 'carnivores'.

Theres lots more of that type of ****e tbh. I wont bore others here linking them all.

To paraphrase yourself ..

Obsessed with vegans, feminists, Asians, farmers etc. No, I'm not ars*d getting into your playpen ...

gozunda · 20-06-2019 08:15AM

Penn wrote: »

From what someone earlier in the thread said, it seems the unknown DNA didn't belong to Boy A, but it was also too small of a sample to test against others including Boy B. So it may be Boy B but couldn't be fully tested or used as evidence.

Its possible that the sample was degraded or couidnt be fully tested. I do wonder did boy B somehow dodge ths bullet on this one

Yurt2 · 20-06-2019 08:16AM

gozunda wrote: »

So Idiotic replies again...

Since you keep repeating this bs Btw what have got against vegans?
Like this one

Had a bad date with a vegan around then. Low sample size. I don't bore the rest of boards with it though.

iamwhoiam · 20-06-2019 08:24AM

Yurt! wrote: »

I still hold that naming them would prompt a free-for-all. Perhaps the people of Lucan don't want to see pitchforks in their own community, but there is a definite element that would seek to harness public anger and cause scenes if the names were more widely known.

Leixlip

Boggles · 20-06-2019 08:29AM

Hal3000 wrote: »

The reason people support mob justice is because of our soft touch justice system. How would you feel if this happened to your daughter only to see the perpetrators get a joke of a sentence and then set up with new identities and new lives. If our Justice system was strong and fair then maybe people would stop baying for blood.

IF someone supports or engages in mob justice, it's very little to do with their thought out feelings of the Justice System and all to do with the fact they are a clinical moron.

mcgovern · 20-06-2019 08:29AM

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

Children dont naturally have psychopathic tendencies, they develop them in certain ways, one of those being exposure to inappropriate content.

Let me ask you, how do you think these boys turned into such twisted f**king monsters?

Overexposure to Tom & Jerry with loving home and upbringing?

I would hazard a guess, uncontrolled access to all manner of disturbing imagery, possibly f**ked up online video games and parents that didnt give two f**ks.

Remove all of the above and what do you think could possibly have changed?

Ah yes, of course, it must have been those video games. There was no murder before they were invented...
From everything I've heard both sets of boys came from loving homes. They both have siblings who haven't murdered anyone yet. Maybe they weren't monitored enough, maybe something went on behind closed doors, but sometimes people are just sick in the head.

Hal3000 · 20-06-2019 08:34AM

Boggles wrote: »

IF someone supports or engages in mob justice, it's very little to do with their thought out feelings of the Justice System and all to do with the fact they are a clinical moron.

No it's human nature to feel outraged and angry. Have you seen sentenecs handed out in this country? They would enrage the most level headed person!

TheAsYLuMkeY · 20-06-2019 08:35AM

mcgovern wrote: »

Ah yes, of course, it must have been those video games. There was no murder before they were invented...
From everything I've heard both sets of boys came from loving homes. They both have siblings who haven't murdered anyone yet. Maybe they weren't monitored enough, maybe something went on behind closed doors, but sometimes people are just sick in the head.

I have played video games since the days of the Atari 2600, the progression of them has gone completely the wrong way.

Majorly violent and some x rated.

You have a lot of maybes,

Maybe what i am saying has some logic to it and would do no harm to implement it, and the outcomes Maybe better for everyone.

Standman · 20-06-2019 08:36AM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

He would definitely be charged with something. Obstruction at the least.

Nope, it's called the right to remain silent. He dug the hole for himself and hopped into it.

Boggles · 20-06-2019 08:37AM

Hal3000 wrote: »

No it's human nature to feel outraged and angry. Have you seen sentenecs handed out in this country? They would enrage the most level headed person!

Big difference between feeling angry and engaging in mob justice.

That mentality comes from the same sick well as Boy A dipped into.

Ash.J.Williams · 20-06-2019 08:37AM

Boggles wrote: »

IF someone supports or engages in mob justice, it's very little to do with their thought out feelings of the Justice System and all to do with the fact they are a clinical moron.

Correct

joe40 · 20-06-2019 08:38AM

All the people supporting vigilante justice, or supporting a death penalty for the boys involved are not thinking about Ana or her family, it is just their own desire for revenge.

Nothing can bring Ana back or ease the parents grief.

I think the idea of vigilante mobs is just an affront to her memory.

Penn · 20-06-2019 08:38AM

mcgovern wrote: »

Ah yes, of course, it must have been those video games. There was no murder before they were invented...
From everything I've heard both sets of boys came from loving homes. They both have siblings who haven't murdered anyone yet. Maybe they weren't monitored enough, maybe something went on behind closed doors, but sometimes people are just sick in the head.

Agreed. Some people just have that combination of lack of empathy, violent desires and whatever other psychological tendencies which surpasses any kind of rationality or sense that would stop them from committing such acts. Maybe these things might be exacerbated by games or movies or poor family life, but there must be something psychologically wrong with them to begin with.

the butcher · 20-06-2019 08:39AM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Psychologist's testimony for Boy B was excluded. That'll form the basis of an appeal. Doctor had stated that he had PTSD as a result of witnessing the attack and was trying to cover himself with lies. Had he known she was about to be killed then why collect her from the house then walk through a park with lots of CCTV. He didn't represent himself well but he may have been a stupid kid manipulated by a more evil one. We may never know. But I think he'll be freed on appeal.

There was extra proof that he was lying for the 9th interview in a row if that evidence got included.

"Calling him as a witness carried a risk, however. During Boy B’s sessions with the doctor he had given him information about what he saw in the abandoned house that day, information he had failed to give the Garda.

The boy told the doctor he saw Boy A standing over Ana with his trousers open during the attack. And that he saw Ana gasping before going silent.

If Humphries gave defence evidence he would likely be open to cross-examination on these matters, reinforcing the notion that Boy B continued to lie to gardaí up to his final interview."

IvoryTower · 20-06-2019 08:47AM

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

I have played video games since the days of the Atari 2600, the progression of them has gone completely the wrong way.

Majorly violent and some x rated.

You have a lot of maybes,

Maybe what i am saying has some logic to it and would do no harm to implement it, and the outcomes Maybe better for everyone.

That was my first console too!

But anyway, majority violent? Naaahhhh, do you count fortnite as violent? 1000s of games to pick from I cant think of too many ott violent games. Haven't exactly gone looking for them mind

tayto lover · 20-06-2019 08:53AM

tuxy wrote: »

That's exactly what I was thinking and after the excellent job the Garda did on this case I think it's an insult to start claiming they were negligent at this stage.

The phone in the Dunleer murder case (which we can’t discuss as it’s still a live investigation) never showed up either. The Garda can do a lot of things with phones but they can’t find something that’s smashed and buried/burner or whatever. That’s another very disturbing case that has yet to come to court involving young people.

the butcher · 20-06-2019 08:58AM

What annoys me still is the parents of Boy A. The thought process goes to show the lengths some will go to protect their own, regardless of the reality presented to them.

Your son comes home, bloodstained..you would immediately ask what happened and check for the cuts/wounds/source of the bleeding. No signs of bleeding....you hear he's attacked by 2 adult men with "inner city accents". Somehow your 13 year old son managed to overpower them both and kick one in the head standing up. A kick so hard the man bled enough to stain BOTH boots. You decide to clean his clothes and wash them overnight?!

Instead of initially ringing the Gardai, you go back down to the park to check about with your son. And at some stage bump into Gardai and tell them to check somewhere else?! Not tell them there and then your son was attacked?!

Greyfox · 20-06-2019 08:59AM

Boggles wrote: »

IF someone supports or engages in mob justice, it's very little to do with their thought out feelings of the Justice System and all to do with the fact they are a clinical moron.

If I had a friend who thought like this I would struggle to stay friends with them as I would believe they have no empathy for victims. We clearly have an issue with our justice system been too lenient. Mob justice is terrible but its better than letting criminals walk free

weldoninhio · 20-06-2019 09:01AM

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

I have played video games since the days of the Atari 2600, the progression of them has gone completely the wrong way.

Majorly violent and some x rated.

You have a lot of maybes,

Maybe what i am saying has some logic to it and would do no harm to implement it, and the outcomes Maybe better for everyone.

Before video games and porn, it was Marilyn Manson and other devils music, before that it was rock and roll, before that it as scurrilous novels etc.

JuneMoon7 · 20-06-2019 09:02AM

pablo128 wrote: »

My daughter is 10 and already as tall as her mother. She is noticeably taller than all the other kids in her class. I got bullied myself in school and by fcuk I'll raise hell if I find out other kids are bullying her. I would do likewise if I found out she was bullying other children too.

Fair play to Mr Kriegel for keeping his composure and dignity. I'm not sure if I could have.

I was bullied as well, and one thing i'll never forget was how in my very first year of school, 13 years of age, boys being very sexually agressive. This was the 90s, long before wide use of internet, and they would comw out with filthy things and try to grope you. Traumatic. Not to mention some girls being absolute bitches. Something happens (some, not all, thankfully) young people once they start transitioning from childhood to adulthood, it turns them into monsters

20-06-2019 09:03AM

the butcher wrote: »

There was extra proof that he was lying for the 9th interview in a row if that evidence got included.

"Calling him as a witness carried a risk, however. During Boy B’s sessions with the doctor he had given him information about what he saw in the abandoned house that day, information he had failed to give the Garda.

The boy told the doctor he saw Boy A standing over Ana with his trousers open during the attack. And that he saw Ana gasping before going silent.

If Humphries gave defence evidence he would likely be open to cross-examination on these matters, reinforcing the notion that Boy B continued to lie to gardaí up to his final interview."

Someone noticed something about this earlier. Wasn’t Boy A wearing tracksuit bottoms? If so, would his trouser be “down” rather than “open”?

Methinks Boy B May have been telling porkies to the professional psychologist too if Boy As attire was tracksuit bottoms.

TheAsYLuMkeY · 20-06-2019 09:05AM

IvoryTower wrote: »

That was my first console too!

But anyway, majority violent? Naaahhhh, do you count fortnite as violent? 1000s of games to pick from I cant think of too many ott violent games. Haven't exactly gone looking for them mind

Example: go back about 15 years, PS2 game called 'Manhunt', read down through the page, murder in england was at the beginning linked with an obsession of this game, later not, but that could have been simply because it was to difficult to prove and could end in litigation from the makers.

The game gave you higher scores for the more gruesome the death or lethal the weapon used.

Now that was 15 years ago, there was a sequel to the game, i imagine there are similar or worse games out there today, and possibly in VR environment.

Our brains process and store these images into memory, you may not recall it to the forefront of your mind every day, but everything we experience and consume mentally shapes who we are, and how we interpret the world.

Boggles · 20-06-2019 09:08AM

Greyfox wrote: »

If I had a friend who thought like this I would struggle to stay friends with them as I would believe they have no empathy for victims. We clearly have an issue with our justice system been too lenient.

So you think someone who doesn't encourage or engage in mob justice has no empathy with victims of crime?

Greyfox wrote: »

Mob justice is terrible but its better than letting criminals walk free

No it isn't. That's just moronic nonsense.

tayto lover · 20-06-2019 09:16AM

JuneMoon7 wrote: »

I was bullied as well, and one thing i'll never forget was how in my very first year of school, 13 years of age, boys being very sexually agressive. This was the 90s, long before wide use of internet, and they would comw out with filthy things and try to grope you. Traumatic. Not to mention some girls being absolute bitches. Something happens (some, not all, thankfully) young people once they start transitioning from childhood to adulthood, it turns them into monsters

I knew of a bullying case in a small school in the country.
11 girls in 5th class. One girl being victimized and bullied by the other ten.
One of the girls has a birthday party, all invited except the bullied girl.
During the party each girl in turn phones the bullied girl to gloat and tell her how much fun they’re all having. 10 phone calls to this poor girl who has to go and sit in that classroom with these bullies on the following Monday.
School did fcuk all about it either.

Youngsters can be very cruel. We should never forget it.

rob316 · 20-06-2019 09:22AM

Boggles wrote: »

Big difference between feeling angry and engaging in mob justice.

That mentality comes from the same sick well as Boy A dipped into.

The same sickwell? Are you serious, are you actually reading what your posting.

Take your high horse and ride the **** out of here you clown

Aisling_Dublin · 20-06-2019 09:22AM

El_Bee wrote: »

This has absolutely nothing to do with mental illness, these boys are not mentally ill.

Psychopathy is an illness, psychopaths are born unable to feel mercy, empathy and sympathy.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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