Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Omackeral

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You know what?

In a few weeks this will all be forgotten, and all the supports will be be for the accused/perpetrators and all the chatter will be about them rather than the bereaved.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The victims are forgotten immediately after their victim impact statements.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

TBH I personally will give this a week from now, and then it will all move on.

We will all forget it soon enough

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

All forgotten in time anyway, we all move on.

Well we won't forget if you stick around anyway!

Gael23

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Orlaodo/status/1141646518337900544

Boy B family in hiding according to his solicitor.

Is this a ploy for the judge to feel sorry for them in sentencing?

tayto lover

beggars_bush wrote: »

what could the school do about a party outside of school?

EDIT, also why do 5th class girls need phones?

The school could have dealt with the bullying going on IN the school.
The children do not need phones. Mine never had one until 15 Years old but that’s an issue for their own parents.

mariaalice

It important to remember the person at the center of.

Now she had issues and early teens can be a horrible time, but if she had just got over the hump of that, by the age of 16/ 17 she might have got over it she was well on the way to becoming the tall attractive sporty woman she was going to become.

She wasn't academic but she was a great swimmer she might have been a swimming instructor or worked in a gym or might have been a dance teacher.

She might have married and become a mother and brought much love grandchildren to her parents.

Now all that is gone.

Boggles

super_furry wrote: »

It's not even rationality, it's a very basic human thought process.

'Is he in jail'? No? Then it's not him.

He is a child. He has just been wrongly outed by the revenge mob on the internet as a child murderer, in a case where people ranting and raving about bringing in the death penalty for children.

Do you not think that innocent child may feel even a small bit anxious.

Or is it a case of fúck him and how he may feel the internet need their collective revenge orgasm?

Greyfox

Boggles wrote: »

Mob justice will just create more victims and punish the innocent.

Only if they get the wrong person

Boggles wrote: »

Anger is normal. Handing the justice system over to violent murderous mobs is moronic and not normal.

It's not moronic, if your sibling/daughter is let down by the justice system its not moronic, its simply you have been forced into doing something desperate due to our poor justice system

Boggles wrote: »

From what I have read the judge in this case has been stellar.

Yes there's good ones, but there a minority

Boggles

Greyfox wrote: »

Only if they get the wrong person

They have all ready, didn't take long. See post below.

mcgovern wrote: »

There is a boy in a town close by around the same age as Boy A, with the same name.
If you google Boy As name, even including Leixlip in the search, you'll find pictures of this innocent lad and none of Boy A. I've seen people reference some of these pictures relating to Boy A, so wouldn't be at all surprised if they are being circulated.

MrFresh

Greyfox wrote: »

Only if they get the wrong person

Yeah, that's the point. That's why we have a justice system, to reduce the possibility of getting the wrong person.

bnt

Thinking Ireland might want to copy the UK's porn age verification system? UK porn age-verification system faces indefinite delay.

Lefty Bicek

super_furry wrote: »

It's not even rationality, it's a very basic human thought process.

'Is he in jail'? No? Then it's not him.

Yet pictures of the wrong boy have been put online, we are told.

The mob is a very basic human thought process too. And the mob frequently gets it wrong.

I recognise that I am coming from a position of ever-increasing cynicism about human nature.

shesty

Moonymoon00 wrote: »

Thanks . That is very worrying . For innocent boys to be protected about being accused for this , I feel the state has a duty to identify boy a and b officially now . Times have changed , social media cannot be patrolled .

Also, I'm sure there are young people who think it's funny to circulate their friends pictures/names as the identity of the boys , thinking it's funny or could using it to bully others .

It's against the law to ID them.An offence under the Children's Act.It has fines/jail time attached to it.And on top of that the judge made an order for it.It wasn't just done at the whim of a court out of the goodness of their heart.

I wonder do people realise that?

joe40

Boggles wrote: »

He is a child. He has just been wrongly outed by the revenge mob on the internet as a child murderer, in a case where people ranting and raving about bringing in the death penalty for children.

Do you not think that innocent child may feel even a small bit anxious.

Or is it a case of fúck him and how he may feel the internet need their collective revenge orgasm?

I heard of a story in England when one of the gutter press there, news of the world I think, were on about naming paedophiles. A Paediatrician was attacked...

Suckler

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Yet pictures of the wrong boy have been put online.

The mob is a very basic human thought process too. And the mob frequently gets it wrong.

I recognise that I am coming from a position of ever-increasing cynicism about human nature.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society

Mob rule in force. Common sense not being too common is the problem.

Force Carrier

tayto lover wrote: »

The children do not need phones. Mine never had one until 15 Years old but that’s an issue for their own parents.

They looked at statistics with "middle school" kids in america after wide spread use of smart phones became ubiquitous in 2008 and noticed a significant increase in self harm rates in boys and girls - and particularly in girls. Social network apps put a lot of pressure on kids and there is a lot of online bullying. Not that these issues haven't always been there but the technology exacerbates them. And there is no upside to the phones anyway. They aren't needed and bring no benefit.

I think in a few years schools everywhere will ban phones and jam phone signals.
Whatever laws need to change will be changed.

B_ecke_r

joe40 wrote: »

I heard of a story in England when one of the gutter press there, news of the world I think, were on about naming paedophiles. A Paediatrician was attacked...

Pretty sure I read that that was made up

fryup

Lackadaisical wrote: »

One issue that's been really hitting me over the last couple of days is that Ana was hard of hearing or partially deaf

maybe that's why she was targeted by bullies? the fact she was tall & good looking and couldn't hear properly some children might have perceived that as being snotty or stand-offish ...you know the way some kids are ..jealous/bitchy

AudreyHepburn

inthehat wrote: »

Why would innocent boys have any fears of being wrongly named?? The 2 convicted boys are in custody. If a boy with a similiar name is walking around free then obviously it cant be him.

Because the baying mob don’t actually care about justice or whether they are targeting the right person. They are out for blood.

Greyfox

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

Have you played this game?

Play the game for an hour, than come back to me and tell me that the content and the way the game draws you in to kill more violently is not f**ked up and would be damaging for a young impressionable mind.

I have played the game myself. I don't see how it could be considered damaging, the violence was very fake and nothing like real life violence. There's been billions of games released over the last few decades and theres never been a proven link between real violence and a game. linking the 2 is nonsense particularly when theres a lot worse things out there that can actually influence kids

spurious

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Absolutely spot on. I'd imagine some kids are behind the sending of pics, thinking it's funny and unaware of consequences.

Almost as if their parents had not given them a sense of right and wrong.

Nerdlingr

Lucuma wrote: »

The same evening. The park ranger said that Boy A's hair was a mess and he looked scuffed up and had blood on his tshirt etc. It was the same evening.
Before his Mammy had a chance to bleach the blood stains off his clothes that night!

Did that actually happen? Never saw it reported.

Lucuma

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Did that actually happen? Never saw it reported.

She said that she 'soaked' them overnight to get the stains out. That was her evidence, one of the first days of the court case

Lucuma

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Did that actually happen? Never saw it reported.

'He told her he had left Boy B just a few minutes earlier and was walking through the park when he was grabbed from behind, brought to the ground and beaten by two youths. He knocked one of them down with a kick, leaving his attacker bloody in the face.

She told the court: “From what I remember, he said they ran away.” He didn’t recognise his attackers and said they didn’t speak. She added her son had taken Jiu Jitsu lessons since he was about 10 years old.

She later took him to Garda HQ in Phoenix Park to do an EvoFit of his attackers.

Boy A’s mum confirmed she washed her son’s clothes the following day and soaked his T-shirt overnight. Apart from the blood stains, she said they were “scruffy and dirty looking”. Scuffs across the middle of the hoodie were consistent with him having been beaten on the ground. They were gravelly marks rather than grass stains.'

Grayson

fryup wrote: »

maybe that's why she was targeted by bullies? the fact she was tall & good looking and couldn't hear properly some children might have perceived that as being snotty or stand-offish ...you know the way some kids are ..jealous/bitchy

Kids are assholes. Any excuse would have been needed. And it's wrong to focus on just her and ask why bullying happened. In every class in every school around this country there's probably a kid who's bullied. There will be nominally a different reason for it in every case but the main reason is asshole kids.

Bullying needs to be tackled in schools. I keep seeing people online saying parents are the best people for it but they're not. They don't witness it and as far as they're concerned their kids are angels. And if parents were great at this as a group, then we wouldn't have bullies in the first place. I'm sure some parents are great, but as a group they're not.

And why should they be. They've never had any training in this stuff. They don't know about the dynamics of a playground. They don't understand cyberbullying.

We need to teach kids about respect from a young age. they need to learn about consent, equality fairness and all that stuff. Because we can't reply on a group of people, who have the best intentions and aims, not to mention a lot of love for their kids, to just wing it and hope for the best.

Driving through town last night I saw scores of young people dolled up obviously heading out to celebrate end of exams. Mini skirts, make -up. fake tan etc (no prob with that, I did it all myself to some extent in my day ).

But all the girls looked like clones of each other. Same long poker straight hair, same daft eye-brows, same fake colour from top to toe. I just thought how hard it must be for a girl to be even remotely different. It's like a rite of passage - "we must all conform ".

The guys all looked like themselves, just well spruced-up.

tayto lover

Force Carrier wrote: »

They looked at statistics with "middle school" kids in america after wide spread use of smart phones became ubiquitous in 2008 and noticed a significant increase in self harm rates in boys and girls - and particularly in girls. Social network apps put a lot of pressure on kids and there is a lot of online bullying. Not that these issues haven't always been there but the technology exacerbates them. And there is no upside to the phones anyway. They aren't needed and bring no benefit.

I think in a few years schools everywhere will ban phones and jam phone signals.
Whatever laws need to change will be changed.

In our local Youthreach the youngsters have to hand in their phones in the morning. They are put in an envelope with their names on it, kept locked in a locked press in the office and not returned until classes end.
Anyone caught with a phone in their possession having failed to hand it in is suspended and their parents notified.
I think this is a good system.

JuneMoon7

tayto lover wrote: »

I knew of a bullying case in a small school in the country.
11 girls in 5th class. One girl being victimized and bullied by the other ten.
One of the girls has a birthday party, all invited except the bullied girl.
During the party each girl in turn phones the bullied girl to gloat and tell her how much fun they’re all having. 10 phone calls to this poor girl who has to go and sit in that classroom with these bullies on the following Monday.
School did fcuk all about it either.

Youngsters can be very cruel. We should never forget it.

Absolutely. That is a terrible story, poor girl. And as for teachers..a child should never have to pluck up the courage to tell a teacher they are being bullied. In most cases they wont have the nerve to do it. teachers should have the emotional intelligence and basic common sense to pick up on it. They should be approaching the child, not the other way around. That said, i would like to think that if/when children do reach out to a parent or teacher, that SOMETHING is being done. It is every bit as much the teachers responsibility as anyone's to put an end to a child's suffering.

Greyfox

MrFresh wrote: »

Yeah, that's the point. That's why we have a justice system, to reduce the possibility of getting the wrong person.

I'm not saying mob mentality is ok, I'm saying its completely understandable when our justice system fails

Nerdlingr

Lucuma wrote: »

She said that she 'soaked' them overnight to get the stains out. That was her evidence, one of the first days of the court case

F*ckin hell. :eek:
That does not look good, knowing what we know now.
But I wonder when Boy A actually came clean to the parents. That night, next day ???
If your son come in all bloody and say he's been beaten up by two strangers, the first thing you would probably do is get him out of the clothes. I dont know if you would be thinking "i better keep these as is, just in case we need DNA " etc.

Her actions of washing the clothes looks like she was implicit in a cover-up, but it could be innocent enough.

castletownman

The thing I can't help thinking about is whether her birth parent(s) know of Ana's faith.

How heartbreaking must it be for them to be under the assumption that she is living a better life in Ireland than they could have offered her, and to maybe pluck up the courage in a few years to make contact with her only to discover what happened.

JuneMoon7

beggars_bush wrote: »

what could the school do about a party outside of school?

EDIT, also why do 5th class girls need phones?

Because the majority of the bullying would have been taking place where they were all together the most; in the classroom. if the entire class of little so and sos were engaging in this victimization and exclusion, you would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to notice it.