Irish language revival

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A person whose sympathies lie with Unionism (and/or the British state) but they're not exactly forthcoming about it.



It's a general hatred of Irish nationalism/republicanism which they consider the language a major pillar of. This shit has been going on for centuries - they're still at it in the north.



Unionism doesn't necessarily imply British although it doesn't exclude it either. You can be politically British (want to reverse Irish independence and reestablish British rule) and be Irish (see JanFebMar) there who hates the language.

That's a fairly controversial post bordering on anglophobic imo.

bobbysands81

RobMc59 wrote: »

That's a fairly controversial post bordering on anglophobic imo.

Please explain.

RobMc59

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Please explain.

He speaks of "Britishness"as if it's a malady.

feargale

Genfella wrote: »

When there is a united Ireland we should relocate Gaelgoirs to loyalist Ulster-Scots areas, injecting Irish culture into areas like Ballymena and Larne and making Ulster-Scots extinct.

Before Gaelgeoirs walk around Ballymena or Larne speaking Irish, they might be well advised to take a few lessons in martial arts beforehand. It might come in handier than advanced Irish lessons in the circumstances.

Incidentally why would anyone want to make Ulster Scots extinct? It's an idiom more endangered than Irish? What would anyone have against it? In particular, why would anyone into preserving or reviving a language under threat want to extinguish another one, if not wanting to get in a bit of ethnic cleansing?

Ubbquittious

Tis a pity we can't just revive the damn language without getting caught up in unionist and nationalist sh1te

RobMc59

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Tis a pity we can't just revive the damn language without getting caught up in unionist and nationalist sh1te

There must be demand to learn it surely?I enquired about lessons here in England and there are regular classes on Merseyside and other cities.

Hamsterchops

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Tis a pity we can't just revive the damn language without getting caught up in unionist and nationalist sh1te

But there is no Unionist-Nationalist "sh1te" here (in the ROI) as you put it, yet after nearly a century of independence we still can't convince ourselves to speak Irish (in any great numbers)!

We claim that we really really want to to speak Irish, but we just carry on speaking English, and realistically that ain't ever going to change.

Simple_Simone

Hamsterchops wrote: »

But there is Unionist-Nationalist "sh1te" here (in the ROI) as you put it, yet after nearly a century of independence we still can't convince ourselves to speak Irish (in any great numbers)!

We claim that we really really want to to speak Irish, but we just carry on speaking English, and realistically that ain't ever going to change.

I think that there's a very important NO missing from the above post.

Snow Garden

Hamsterchops wrote: »

We claim that we really really want to to speak Irish, but we just carry on speaking English, and realistically that ain't ever going to change.

And rightly so, it would be a horribly backward step.

feargale

There is a forum in boards.ie called Gaeilge. People open threads here from time to time telling everybody that they should speak Irish. I never see one of them posting in an Irish language thread, much less opening one. That says it all.
If everybody who is preaching to others about speaking Irish just spoke it among themselves there would be a small vibrant community of Irish speakers. But for Christ's sake stop bothering people who have no interest in it. That is simply counterproductive. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses don't come on here pestering people who are not interested.
If committed Gaelgeoirs were intent on serving their cause effectively they would campaign to ban the language among those who are not interested,

whisky_galore

^This.

It's like the vegan threads, other people are subhuman if they don't subscribe to my beliefs.

Granadino

I can speak it reasonably well, and know others who do too, but we never ever spoke to each other in Irish. I can't really say why....

Reati

whisky_galore wrote: »

It's like the vegan threads, other people are subhuman if they don't subscribe to my beliefs.

Absolutely, Just looks at the comments made about Irish and Gaelscoils in this thread alone.

janfebmar wrote: »

It's an ugly dead language and a waste if taxpayers money.

Snow Garden wrote: »

I think the whole Irish language obsession is coming from people who want to differentiate themselves from the influx of immigrants over the past 20 years. There is definitely a racist/xenophobic element to it - especially the Gaelscoils.

janfebmar wrote: »

Parents usually send theirs kids to Gaelscoil not for Irish, but so that their kids are not the ones to mix with immigrants and blacks.

PhuckHugh

I'd love to be able to speak it.... It's one of the few things left of our heritage.... Everytime I go to seek out classes life just gets in the way. It's a shame they dont teach it like a language in schools.

RobMc59

Hamsterchops wrote: »

But there is no Unionist-Nationalist "sh1te" here (in the ROI) as you put it, yet after nearly a century of independence we still can't convince ourselves to speak Irish (in any great numbers)!

We claim that we really really want to to speak Irish, but we just carry on speaking English, and realistically that ain't ever going to change.

People's unwillingness to learn or speak Irish could be because so many other countries speak English there is little incentive to bother?

Igotadose

Personal experience of trying to learn Irish as an adult, is that the quality of the instruction provided at the adult level, is pretty darn poor. Our experience is in going through the TEG training classes up to the B1 level. The materials are outdated, inconsistent and disorganized. The instructors are not trained in it, and it shows. It seems like the material was slapped together around 10 years ago, and not updated since.

Living in a Gaeltacht region, we're fortunate for the opportunity to use the language. We have patient friends and neighbors who help with the language, but there's only so much you can ask of them, and its kind of shameful the quality of the state-sponsored education for adults is so poor.

Sardonicat

RobMc59 wrote: »

Hamsterchops wrote: »

But there is no Unionist-Nationalist "sh1te" here (in the ROI) as you put it, yet after nearly a century of independence we still can't convince ourselves to speak Irish (in any great numbers)!

We claim that we really really want to to speak Irish, but we just carry on speaking English, and realistically that ain't ever going to change.

People's unwillingness to learn or speak Irish could be because so many other countries speak English there is little incentive to bother?

We really shouldn't have to try and learn it as adults. We should all have functional Irish by the time we leave school when they've been teaching the language from juniors to LC . But we don't, even though we pass exams in the subject. Other countries (Scandinavia ) manage to produce school leavers with functional English. Yet we can't do that with our own language.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sardonicat wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

Hamsterchops wrote: »

But there is no Unionist-Nationalist "sh1te" here (in the ROI) as you put it, yet after nearly a century of independence we still can't convince ourselves to speak Irish (in any great numbers)!

We claim that we really really want to to speak Irish, but we just carry on speaking English, and realistically that ain't ever going to change.

People's unwillingness to learn or speak Irish could be because so many other countries speak English there is little incentive to bother?

We really shouldn't have to try and learn it as adults. We should all have functional Irish by the time we leave school when they've been teaching the language from juniors to LC . But we don't, even though we pass exams in the subject. Other countries (Scandinavia ) manage to produce school leavers with functional English. Yet we can't do that with our own language.

That's because Scandinavian kids grow with their home langauge and learn English second.

Sardonicat

I don't understand your point, Princess.

For most of us Irish would be a second language we learn at school. If the Scandis can produce near fluent English speakers that way why can't we manage that with Irish?

Reati

Sardonicat wrote: »

I don't understand your point, Princess.

For most of us Irish would be a second language we learn at school. If the Scandis can produce near fluent English speakers that way why can't we manage that with Irish?

My Icelandic friends tell me they learn the basics in school and American TV and films fill in the rest.

Will ask some of the Swedish folks at lunch.

facehugger99

Hamsterchops wrote: »

We claim that we really really want to to speak Irish, but we just carry on speaking English, and realistically that ain't ever going to change.

Irish people claim to want unification with NI but don't want to pay for it, we claim to want to speak Irish but don't want to learn it. We claim to despise corruption in politics but regularly vote in crooks and chancers and claim to want Rolls Royce state services but begrudge paying any additional taxes.

If we spent less time and effort lying to ourselves the country would be in a far better state

Sardonicat

Finland is amazing. Saw a documentary about education there and the emphasis they place on language skills. A class of 8 year olds being taught with role play and puppets. 2 kids at the top of the class acting out a scenario with puppets speaking in complex sentences. Far, far ahead of the standard expected and achieved by 8 year olds here.

So no. I'm not buying the 'we watch it on tv' line. If that was the case we could all sit in front of TG4 for a few weeks and be fluent.

You time and time again dissmiss out of hand the way Irish is taught here. Why do you think I left school without being able to speak it? I got a B in Ordinary Level. I'd really like you to answer that. What would you put down the reason for me being able to read a page of Irish with perfect pronounciation and blas yet not understand more than half of what I was reading down to? Do you think I'm stupid? Do you think I was lazy? Is it my fault? Just how, after so many years of 'learning 'a language could that happen.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sardonicat wrote: »

I don't understand your point, Princess.

For most of us Irish would be a second language we learn at school. If the Scandis can produce near fluent English speakers that way why can't we manage that with Irish?

Ah, ok. I thought you meant the other way around.

The difference here is that Scandinavian kids have an incentive to learn English. Not just for university, career or job possibilities, but also because when they start learning English, at the age of about 10 or 12, most of their favourite songs, movie and media are in English. They don't need to rely on subtitles and can understand more.

Irish kids don't have the same practical applications for Irish.

Learning English as a second language is a lot easier than learning something else as one.

Sardonicat

They start learningUchida younger than that.

Reati

Reati wrote: »

My Icelandic friends tell me they learn the basics in school and American TV and films fill in the rest.

Sardonicat wrote: »

Finland is amazing.

I didn't know Finland and Iceland where the same place? Guess that A2 in Honors Geography was another waste of money.

Edit: can you post a link. The documentary sounds goodm

Sardonicat wrote: »

So no. I'm not buying the 'we watch it on tv' line. If that was the case we could all sit in front of TG4 for a few weeks and be fluent.

Nor do I to be fair, hence my plan to ask the Swedes on the team. But that's what Icelandic lads told me.

Reati wrote: »

You time and time again dissmiss out of hand the way Irish is taught here. Why do you think I left school without being able to speak it? I got a B in Ordinary Level. I'd really like you to answer that. What would you put down the reason for me being able to read a page of Irish with perfect pronounciation and blas yet not understand more than half of what I was reading down to?

I've constantly said that Irish is not taught badly in English medium schools because it's not. The curriculum as designed is taught as well as any other subjects. The statistics show that BUT I've not once said it's taught properly. I have constantly said you cannot learn a language in 3.5hrs of classwork a week with little to no exposure outside of that. Immersion is the only way and I stand by that.

Reati wrote: »

Do you think I'm stupid? Do you think I was lazy? Is it my fault?

I don't have much to base it on bar a few posts in here it's a bit hard to answer personal questions about you. Maybe ask someone who knows you better?

Reati wrote: »

Just how, after so many years of 'learning 'a language could that happen.

You haven't "learnt a language for years". You studied a subject in a classroom for 3.5hrs a week for the length of the school term just the others you have studied and likely forgotten the finer points of.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Reati wrote: »

I've constantly said that Irish is not taught badly in English medium schools because it's not. The curriculum as designed is taught as well as any other subjects. The statistics show that BUT I've not once said it's taught properly. I have constantly said you cannot learn a language in 3.5hrs of classwork a week with little to no exposure outside of that. Immersion is the only way and I stand by that.

Disagree, because at the end of the day, it's still seen as a school subject. Until that attitude changes, nothing else will (although I allude back to my earlier point, about it being syllabus as opposed to teaching, but same difference).

You haven't "learnt a language for years". You studied a subject in a classroom for 3.5hrs a week for the length of the school term just the others you have studied and likely forgotten the finer points of.

Case in point: you SHOULD be learning a language in a classroom and 3.5 hours a week over 14 academic years should be enough to bring most people up to at least conversational level, even in a predominantly monolingual society. When people get results, I'll accept the contrary.

As the previous poster said: we're not all stupid, we're not all lazy.

Reati

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Disagree, because at the end of the day, it's still seen as a school subject. Until that attitude changes, nothing else will (although I allude back to my earlier point, about it being syllabus as opposed to teaching, but same difference).

We're saying the same thing?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Case in point: you SHOULD be learning a language in a classroom and 3.5 hours a week over 14 academic years should be enough to bring most people up to at least conversational level, even in a predominantly monolingual society. When people get results, I'll accept the contrary.

Genuine question. Are you bilingual to a day to day conversational level? (no, this isn't a trick question to catch you out with.)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

As the previous poster said: we're not all stupid, we're not all lazy.

Did I ever say anyone was or that was the reason?

blanch152

Reati wrote: »

The Irish time link contains conflicting studies and results depending on if Gaeltacht schools are included or not.

Now, to prove the underlying racism point you are trying to find. I'd argue you actually would need to have the information for people who apply and compare that to those actually accepted in Gaelscoileanna. I'm not sure if those figures would available for any school.

That said, it's hardly a leap to think non nationals would want their kids to be educated through English if that's not the language they use at home. Wouldn't you think?

I'm on the phone but will look at the larger 18 page study you provided and get back to you.

Let me be clear, I am not suggesting that Gaelscoileanna operate racist enrolment policies.

I am questioning the motivation of some parents that send their children to Gaelscoileanna.

blanch152

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

‘In putting my little Sorcha and Jack in a school that teaches through a ‘dead language’ cos I want to keep them away from filthy immigrants’

Are you fvckin listening to yourselves?
The stupidity of it


Not to mention children taught bilingually have better development and brain development with other languages especially and
Class sizes are smaller in Gaelscoils.
And them ‘bloody immigrants’ don’t actually want to put their kids in a foreign language school cos a/common sense and b/neither do the majority of parents actually from here want to either.

Put the racist nonsense away you’re makihg fools of yourselves.

The problem is the statistics show that Gaelscoileanna do not enrol non-nationals, travellers or pupils with special needs in anything like the numbers that mainstream English schools do. And rather than address the statistics, you attack the posters that point out the statistics. To be fair though, you are not the worst at it.

_blaaz

blanch152 wrote: »

The problem is the statistics show that Gaelscoileanna do not enrol non-nationals, travellers or pupils with special needs in anything like the numbers that mainstream English schools do. And rather than address the statistics, you attack the posters that point out the statistics. To be fair though, you are not the worst at it.

For this to be a valid critism,there would need to be evidemce of gaelscoils deliberately persueing the enrollement policy your suggesting??


I know plenty people with little to no irish who have kids in/places booked in gaelscoils??