Gemma O'Doherty and her unicorns

Cordell

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

only simple research is required. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1995/si/114/made/en/print



When you have been corrected and continue to repeat incorrect information then that is a lie. To declare something as fact without bothering to do the slightest bit of research is as good a lie as makes no difference.

So, because it's illegal it does not happen, like with any illegal stuff, right?
My due diligence: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-cattle-slaughtered-in-conditions-breaching-eu-law-1.3033583
Have you done yours?
Now who's lying?

Cordell

King Mob wrote: »

And I assume that they are also equally careful about not eating kosher food.
Right?

I'm not their representative so I'll stop defending them, but as for myself, I have the same issue with both of them.

ohnonotgmail

Cordell wrote: »

So, because it's illegal it does not happen, like with any illegal stuff, right?
My due diligence: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-cattle-slaughtered-in-conditions-breaching-eu-law-1.3033583
Have you done yours?
Now who's lying?

Well not me. you need to read the article you are linking to BEFORE posting it.

Cattle and sheep which are being exported live from Ireland to the Middle East are being slaughtered in shocking conditions in “clear breach of EU laws”, Irish farmers have been warned.

the animals are not being slaughtered here.

Cordell

I never said it's happening here, does it even matter where it happens? It's less barbaric if it happens in some other corner of the world, and then the meat is re-imported here? Does it make a difference?

ohnonotgmail

Cordell wrote: »

I never said it's happening here, does it even matter where it happens? It's less barbaric if it happens in some other corner of the world, and then the meat is re-imported here? Does it make a difference?

well it does matter when you are complaining about halal being practiced in ireland. I would say it is pretty bloody central.

King Mob

Cordell wrote: »

I'm not their representative so I'll stop defending them, but as for myself, I have the same issue with both of them.

So why do you think people here on this thread are getting all wound up about halal and not kosher?
Why halal and not the other cruel things done to other animals done in the supposedly civilised non-muslim world?
Why do you think Gemma brought it up?

Do you think that maybe, just maybe it's cause some people want a go at the muslims and nothing else?

recedite

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

only simple research is required. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1995/si/114/made/en/print

Your link describes "best practice" ie the modern western method of slaughter.
It does not describe the halal ritual slaughter method.
EU law allows exemptions from best practice, for religious "ritual slaughter".



EU stats tell us that not only is Halal method used in Ireland, but it's out of all proportion to the muslim population of Ireland.

In Ireland, with 1% of consumers Muslim, 6% of cattle and 34% of sheep were killed without stunning, and In France 40% of calves, 25% of bovines (cattle) and 54% of ovines (sheep etc.) were killed without stunning according to a survey done in 2006-07.

According to halal ritual slaughter, the animal must be fully conscious when they slit its throat, and then the muslim with the knife watches while the animal convulses violently, and gradually it bleeds out.
The rest of us are entitled to call that unnecessary and barbaric.

King Mob

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well it does matter when you are complaining about halal being practiced in ireland. I would say it is pretty bloody central.

Also now, the issue with the halal bread is that animals are being exported I guess?

This is a pretty weird one, even by conspiracy theory standards...

King Mob

recedite wrote: »

According to halal ritual slaughter, the animal must be fully conscious when they slit its throat, and then the muslim with the knife watches while the animal convulses violently, and gradually it bleeds out.
The rest of us are entitled to call that unnecessary and barbaric.

Lol, that does sure sound scary.
And you certainly do make that muslim guy sound awfully barbaric.

But you're cool with how pate is made...?
Kosher food?

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

Your link describes "best practice" ie the modern western method of slaughter.
It does not describe the halal ritual slaughter method.
EU law allows exemptions from best practice, for religious "ritual slaughter".



EU stats tell us that not only is Halal method used in Ireland, but it's out of all proportion to the muslim population of Ireland.
According to halal ritual slaughter, the animal must be fully conscious when they slit its throat, and then the muslim with the knife watches while the animal convulses violently, and gradually it bleeds out.
The rest of us are entitled to call that unnecessary and barbaric.

All slaughtered animals in this country are stunned first. Stunning is permitted as part of halal.

King Mob

recedite wrote: »

EU stats tell us that not only is Halal method used in Ireland, but it's out of all proportion to the muslim population of Ireland.

Detailed slaughter estimations
Though they are exempted from mandatory
stunning of animals, the Muslim community
in the UK has over time increased the use of
pre-stunning. In 2008 an estimated 75% of
cattle, 93% of sheep and 100% of poultry
killed to produce Halal meat were stunned
before sticking.
The Jewish community however is
maintaining the traditional method, which
means no stunning prior to cutting.
Jewish dietary law requires meat to be
marked to indicate its Kosher status.

So...
Guess you should be complaining more about kosher bread like Irish Pride.

recedite

King Mob wrote: »

Lol, that does sure sound scary.
And you certainly do make that muslim guy sound awfully barbaric.

But you're cool with how pate is made...?
Kosher food?

Pate de foie grasse? I'm already boycotting that.

King Mob

recedite wrote: »

Pate de foie grasse? I'm already boycotting that.

And every company that is as tangentially linked to the promotion of it?

And every company that has had their food certified as kosher?

Please list a few of these.

Cordell

King Mob wrote: »

So why do you think people here on this thread are getting all wound up about halal and not kosher?

I don't know, ask them?
You know what are you doing now? You're judging everyone based on some individual opinions, just like they do when they claim that all muslims are bad because some of them are actually bad.

King Mob wrote: »

Do you think that maybe, just maybe it's cause some people want a go at the muslims and nothing else?

I'm sure there are quite a few that will be happy to see them all gone, but I'm not one of them and certainly not responsible for them!

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote:

every animal slaughtered in ireland is stunned. its the law. To say otherwise is a lie.

That is interesting. It flies in the face of what I posted.

I hope you are right.

King Mob

Cordell wrote: »

I don't know, ask them?

I have been. I have not gotten much of a response other than whinging about how you can't be racist towards muslims and how using those terms aren't racist.

Cordell wrote: »

You know what are you doing now? You're judging everyone based on some individual opinions, just like they do when they claim that all muslims are bad because some of them are actually bad.

No, I'm saying that using certain terms is racist. And that people who used those terms have used racist terms. And that some people people tried to defend those terms as not racist.

I'm also inferring from the apparent hypocrisy on display that the concern about animal welfare isn't as much of a factor as some other things.

I'm not judging "everyone".
Not sure where you're getting that idea from...

recedite

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

All slaughtered animals in this country are stunned first. Stunning is permitted as part of halal.

The voice of authority speaks again.
So you're saying that European Parliament briefing document I linked to is all lies and conspiracy theories?
Also the newspaper article posted earlier in this thread giving the opinion of a Wicklow veterinary surgeon? More lies?


Where exactly are you getting your info from?

Cordell

Well, let me make myself clear, once again for the last time
I don't really have a problem with my stake welfare. My problem is with fundamentalism, halal, koser, FGM, MGM, all the same. We need to move away from religion, and having religious seal of approvals on food is quite the opposite.

Cordell

Cordell wrote:

Well, let me make myself clear, once again for the last time I don't really have a problem with my stake welfare. My problem is with fundamentalism, halal, koser, FGM, MGM, all the same. We need to move away from religion, and having religious seal of approvals on food is quite the opposite.

Racist

King Mob

Cordell wrote: »

Well, let me make myself clear, once again for the last time
I don't really have a problem with my stake welfare. My problem is with fundamentalism, halal, koser, FGM, MGM, all the same. We need to move away from religion, and having religious seal of approvals on food is quite the opposite.

So Brennan's bread getting certified as halal means that there'll be more FGM in Ireland?

Not sure what your point here is.

recedite

When people say "But what about the jews and their kosher slaughter?"
First we have to bear in mind that only the strict orthodox jews follow that dietary requirement.
Then we have to realise that there are far fewer jews anyway, so there is insufficient market for an abattoir to devote a production line to a jewish ritual slaughter which might involve a method very similar to halal (different prayers, but still no pre-stunning).

But if such a production line actually exists in Ireland, I will certainly condemn it as equally barbaric to the halal one.

Cordell

Cordell wrote:

Well, let me make myself clear, once again for the last time I don't really have a problem with my stake welfare. My problem is with fundamentalism, halal, koser, FGM, MGM, all the same. We need to move away from religion, and having religious seal of approvals on food is quite the opposite.

King Mob wrote:

So Brennan's bread getting certified as halal means that there'll be more FGM in Ireland?

It seems that making yourself clear means that someone will wilfully misrepresent you in the style of Cathy Newman.

I didn't see you say that there was a correlation between mutilation of a woman's genitals and bread, but that is how some people want to win what they think is a debate.

Pathetic

Cordell

pigeon chess
/unsubscribe

Cordell

Cordell wrote:

pigeon chess /unsubscribe

Had to Google that. Brilliant summation

King Mob

recedite wrote: »

When people say "But what about the jews and their kosher slaughter?"
First we have to bear in mind that only the strict orthodox jews follow that dietary requirement.
Then we have to realise that there are far fewer jews anyway, so there is insufficient market for an abattoir to devote a production line to a jewish ritual slaughter which might involve a method very similar to halal (different prayers, but still no pre-stunning).

But if such a production line actually exists in Ireland, I will certainly condemn it as equally barbaric to the halal one.

According to your link though:
In a survey of UK slaughter houses, 17000 cattle were slaughter by halal methods, of which 84% where stunned. This is compared with 13000 cattle killed in the kosher method and of which 0% were stunned beforehand.

Also as I quoted, and your ignored:

Detailed slaughter estimations
Though they are exempted from mandatory
stunning of animals, the Muslim community
in the UK has over time increased the use of
pre-stunning. In 2008 an estimated 75% of
cattle, 93% of sheep and 100% of poultry
killed to produce Halal meat were stunned
before sticking.
The Jewish community however is
maintaining the traditional method, which
means no stunning prior to cutting.

So what brands do you boycott because they are certified as kosher?
Is the answer none?

King Mob

King Mob wrote:

According to your link though: In a survey of UK slaughter houses, 17000 cattle were slaughter by halal methods, of which 84% where stunned. This is compared with 13000 cattle killed in the kosher method and of which 0% were stunned beforehand.

Both are horrific. Thanks for pointing that out.

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

It seems that making yourself clear means that someone will wilfully misrepresent you in the style of Cathy Newman.

I didn't see you say that there was a correlation between mutilation of a woman's genitals and bread, but that is how some people want to win what they think is a debate.

Pathetic

I'm not misrepresenting anyone. I'm pointing out the ridiculous premise of the whole outrage you guys are moaning about.

It's not about FGM, it's about bread getting a little sticker on it's packaging.
Bringing in FGM and animal slaughter into this topic is ridiculous.

But it's also not really about bread either. It's about people wanting to have a go at muslims.

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

Both are horrific. Thanks for pointing that out.

But one is objectively done more by a group who are more unwilling to change their practices.

Yet, you guys aren't talking about that group.
No one has gotten in a tizzy about Irish Pride being kosher.
No one has declared that they are boycotting Irish Pride because they are promoting kosher food.

Why is that?

King Mob

King Mob wrote:

Why is that?

I am equally as outraged at people who would chose to mutilate their child's genitals for the sake of religion as I am with those who thing that people who disrespect their god should be killed and that food should be prepared in their way.

They aren't the same in regards of severity, but they are in the sense of legitimacy.

There are plenty of countries that cater for that way of living. I would never choose to be resident in one of them.

Perhaps if you have views incompatible to the county you live, you would be better to go somewhere else.

So racist

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

I am equally as outraged at people who would chose to mutilate their child's genitals for the sake of religion as I am with those who thing that people who disrespect their god should be killed and that food should be prepared in their way.

They aren't the same in regards of severity, but they are in the sense of legitimacy.

There are plenty of countries that cater for that way of living. I would never choose to be resident in one of them.

Perhaps if you have views incompatible to the county you live, you would be better to go somewhere else.

So racist

Again, you are bringing up FGM in a discussion about halal bread.
That's plainly ridiculous.

Also, amoung your many racist points (ie. Muslims should go home/all muslims who keep halal also support FGM), you are simply wrong.
As I have pointed out twice before now (and has been ignored twice, soon to be three times I'm betting):

Detailed slaughter estimations
Though they are exempted from mandatory
stunning of animals, the Muslim community
in the UK has over time increased the use of
pre-stunning.

You have also dodged my question entirely.

What was that about pigeon chess?