Tesla Model 3 thread - V2.0

catharsis

autopilot is not the same as 'full self drive'

unkel

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Autopilot is the 6.5k extra?

Autopilot is standard equipment on all Model 3 since a few months ago.

drunkmonkey

unkel wrote: »

Autopilot is standard equipment on all Model 3 since a few months ago.

That explains the price. They've a bit of wiggle room there.

unkel

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They've a bit of wiggle room there.

I wonder how much. UK price net of GBP3,500 incentives. Take away UK VAT, add Irish VAT and VRT (minus €5k VRT discount). Not sure how much profit is left over for their troubles. Someone car to do the sums?

hatrack

€67,950 isn’t bad. That’s a pretty good deal to avoid dealing with Tesla if you ask me.

Creamy Goodness

yeah but you'll probably still have to deal with Tesla for after-sales/parts etc. so you don't get away from it.

jusmeig

hatrack wrote: »

€67,950 isn’t bad. That’s a pretty good deal to avoid dealing with Tesla if you ask me.

You would then be dealing with a traditional car dealer tho knows nothing about EVs, who will refer you to Tesla. If they offer some sort of trade/in or better finance, might make sense.

unkel

hatrack wrote: »

€67,950 isn’t bad. That’s a pretty good deal to avoid dealing with Tesla if you ask me.

It isn't bad. If you want to skip the queue and have the car now and are willing to pay a premium for it.

soc

So now that we’re in the last week of September has anyone who received the call about collecting their car end of September got an update? Have you had any further correspondence from Tesla and arranged finance and insurance? Or has everything come to a complete standstill again?

s8n

Picking up on Friday

hatrack

s8n wrote: »

Picking up on Friday

Wow. What was your reservation date and order date?

dingledosser

s8n wrote: »

Picking up on Friday

Delighted for you, and insanely jealous at the same time! Enjoy!

dumbyearbook

Seth Orange Springboard wrote: »

I have a m4 and a model 3p on order
The m4 is my 3rd m car and my 8th bmw.
God there is some bollox being spouted on this thread by people who watch too much top gear and pretend to know the preferences of performance car owners.

The model 3 puts the m4 even remapped in the shade for acceleration by a long margin. Also the 4wd makes the acceleration usable. The interior is on a par in quality once you get over the minimalist thing. The model 3p is half the price and 80% less running ccosts. If the new BMW m3 can do 3.2 to 60 I will be amazed given the x4m results. Also the model 3 makes the BMW look stupid and old fashioned.

I keep a e46 m3 for nostalgia I am not immune to the charms of an ice engine. But only a noob can overlook the way things are going.

Eva dont suit all use cases but BMW, Porsche, Audi etc have now.answer at.the moment.

It’s half the price for a reason there is way less involved to make it.

it’s not even close in terms of Interior not on par at all with an Audi or BMW. The point I’m making is that people here saying they are getting an M3 or RS4 for €50k aren’t it’s so totally different and all that chat is only hype really at the end of the day.

ted1

dumbyearbook wrote: »

It’s half the price for a reason there is way less involved to make it.

Far from it. The M3P has a lot of R&D to pay back. New factories to pay for.

The others are from brands they have been building variants of the car for the past 40+ years

btkm8unsl0w5r4

dumbyearbook wrote: »

It’s half the price for a reason there is way less involved to make it.

it’s not even close in terms of Interior not on par at all with an Audi or BMW. The point I’m making is that people here saying they are getting an M3 or RS4 for €50k aren’t it’s so totally different and all that chat is only hype really at the end of the day.

Do you have experiance of either of these cars?

S8N congratulations...look forward to some pics.

projectmayhem

s8n wrote: »

Picking up on Friday

Nice one, congrats!

wcooba

Seth Orange Springboard wrote: »

Do you have experiance of either of these cars?

I don't think anyone on this thread has any long term experience with Model 3 either? Albeit crazy acceleration is super fun - car ownership satisfaction is much more than that. And judging by pre-sales support so far and reports from other markets about quality of those vehicles - I wonder when initial excitement wears off how many of the new owners will be actually happy.

Also as innovative Tesla product is now, mainstream manufactures will quickly catch up. It's a matter of few years max. Quick comparison of annual R&D budgets:
Tesla: $1.5bn
BMW: €7bn
VAG: €13bn

projectmayhem

wcooba wrote: »

Also as innovative Tesla product is now, mainstream manufactures will quickly catch up. It's a matter of few years max. Quick comparison of annual R&D budgets:
Tesla: $1.5bn
BMW: €7bn
VAG: €13bn

While you are right, and most other large car manufacturers will simply outspend Tesla, the first-mover advantage is real; as is the hype surrounding the brand. I'd also suggest that BMW, VAG, etc. have to spend big right now as they're so far behind the innovation curve in a period where market demand is trending towards EV.

Ultimately I doubt Tesla will be the long-term biggest EV manufacturer. But I also don't think that's the plan with Tesla. It's more akin to Apple's playbook, pre-iPhone. No need to dominate the laptop market, or even be first to market with new product. Just be best to market and dominate the innovation game to keep your margin high. Tesla will go down that route, and let VW/BMW/etc. play in the muck as they fight for lower margin, higher volume sales.

That said, I do hope to christ they sort out their customer experience. It's abysmal right now.

Lumen

wcooba wrote: »

IAlbeit crazy acceleration is super fun - car ownership satisfaction is much more than that.

For me, a large part of the EV thing is about re-programming one's mind about what to enjoy. Subjectivity is plastic.

I grew up with Lambo and Ferrari pictures on the wall. The holy grail was 200mph. Now we have 480kph Bugattis but kids of today are watching Youtube videos of Teslas that won't go much faster than 250kph, if they even care about cars at all.

In 20 years time we will still have a fascination with internal combustion engines, but liquid fuel, exhausts and gearboxes will seem as strange and unnecessary as double de-clutching does today.

Sabre Man

wcooba wrote: »

I don't think anyone on this thread has any long term experience with Model 3 either? Albeit crazy acceleration is super fun - car ownership satisfaction is much more than that. And judging by pre-sales support so far and reports from other markets about quality of those vehicles - I wonder when initial excitement wears off how many of the new owners will be actually happy.

Also as innovative Tesla product is now, mainstream manufactures will quickly catch up. It's a matter of few years max. Quick comparison of annual R&D budgets:
Tesla: $1.5bn
BMW: €7bn
VAG: €13bn

Teslas tend to top owner satisfaction surveys.

slave1

s8n wrote: »

Picking up on Friday

Photos!!!!

IITYWYBMAD

wcooba wrote: »

I don't think anyone on this thread has any long term experience with Model 3 either? Albeit crazy acceleration is super fun - car ownership satisfaction is much more than that. And judging by pre-sales support so far and reports from other markets about quality of those vehicles - I wonder when initial excitement wears off how many of the new owners will be actually happy.

Also as innovative Tesla product is now, mainstream manufactures will quickly catch up. It's a matter of few years max. Quick comparison of annual R&D budgets:
Tesla: $1.5bn
BMW: €7bn
VAG: €13bn

They're ripe for a takeover. I suspect Elon will cash in in the coming 18 months.

Lumen

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

They're ripe for a takeover. I suspect Elon will cash in in the coming 18 months.

Tesla is too expensive for that. The market cap is $43bn. Any car manufacturer with that much money would be better off doing a platform share with another mainstream manufacturer, or spending the money on catch up R&D, and these are exactly what they're doing. In any case, Tesla's tech and styling is too different to fit into existing production lines or match styling expectations of current brands, so what would be the point?

bdogg

Lumen wrote: »

Tesla is too expensive for that.

Considering Uber is valued today at $55bn, I would argue that TSLA is undervalued at $43bn.

Lumen

bdogg wrote: »

Considering Uber is valued today at $55bn, I would argue that TSLA is undervalued at $43bn.

Considering Uber is valued today at $55bn, I would argue that my lunch is undervalued at $43bn.

slave1

Lumen wrote: »

Tesla is too expensive for that. The market cap is $43bn. Any car manufacturer with that much money would be better off doing a platform share with another mainstream manufacturer, or spending the money on catch up R&D, and these are exactly what they're doing. In any case, Tesla's tech and styling is too different to fit into existing production lines or match styling expectations of current brands, so what would be the point?

You're right, car manufacturer....but there are other companies out there that would be interested to get Tesla...….not saying Apple but companies of that persuasion

IITYWYBMAD

Lumen wrote: »

Tesla is too expensive for that. The market cap is $43bn. Any car manufacturer with that much money would be better off doing a platform share with another mainstream manufacturer, or spending the money on catch up R&D, and these are exactly what they're doing. In any case, Tesla's tech and styling is too different to fit into existing production lines or match styling expectations of current brands, so what would be the point?

Tesla stock is way down at the moment, from a high of $380 9 months ago, it has lost nearly a third. They are carrying nearly 12Bn in debt, don't own their own battery manufacturing plant and have commitments of 16Bn to Panasonic.

Their assembly plant, even internally, is viewed as inefficient. They do have massive brand equity, but this is intrinsically linked to Elon. He has millions of personal debt linked to his shareholding in Tesla, and it's only a matter of time before he faces a margin call.

A debt/equity/share deal would be a no-brainer for a well established ICE manufacturer. Market cap has very little to do with the position at the moment.

ted1

I’d hazard a guess and say the the Chinese factory and European factory will be far more efficient. So there in efficiency is temporary.

bdogg

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Tesla stock is way down at the moment, from a high of $380 9 months ago, it has lost nearly a third. They are carrying nearly 12Bn in debt, don't own their own battery manufacturing plant and have commitments of 16Bn to Panasonic.

They own GF1 in Nevada - Panasonic are just a manufacturing partner within that plant. They have built GF3 in China nearly already and they 100% own that with no state ownership. They are looking for GF4 site in europe. They also have bought Maxwell and have a couple of breakthroughs on the horizon.

They are miles ahead of any autos who currently have to oursource all their battery manufacture - this is why they can't get price and supply sorted. Building manufacturing plants is capital intensive. Of course they're going to be in debt for a while. They are gearing up for Model Y, Pickup, Semi and S and X revisions in next couple of years. It's a good roadmap.

ted1

And the roadster ^^^