VW ID.3

14-05-2020 4:28pm

Silent Running wrote: »

Ballix... I was hoping there would be a bit more of a delay. The Niro isn't a year old until July and I can't decide if I want to replace it with the ID3.

The Niro is an excellent EV and I'm not sure the ID3 would be an upgrade... probably not.

Trade-in value of the Niro would probably decide for me.

I could be wrong but due to the high price of the Eniro, Esoul, Kona I think they could suffer massive depreciation but it would be interesting to know.

arch_stanton · 14-05-2020 4:34pm

I got mine as well. Big decision to make now. I've used less than a quarter tank of petrol since St. Patrick's day.

Rusky rusky · 14-05-2020 4:42pm

Yes, same here. I wish they would publish the prices beforehand.

Silent Running · 14-05-2020 6:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I could be wrong but due to the high price of the Eniro, Esoul, Kona I think they could suffer massive depreciation but it would be interesting to know.

Why just those three? The 62kWh leaf is more expensive than any of those three. The Tesla Model 3 is significantly more expensive than any of the above , for less range.

I think you are wrong.

jonnythefox · 14-05-2020 6:28pm

Are we expected to do a deal not knowing the price?

liamog · 14-05-2020 6:32pm

As we've dicussed many times on this thread the TM3 is in a different class performance and size wise.

I definately think there will be pressure on Nissan, Hyundai and Kia to lower there prices. Hyundai and Kia have been able to keep their prices high due to the range premium. I'm not sure they can maintain the Kona for €7,000 more to a ID.3 Pro with just an extra 50km of WLTP range.
They are producing the Kona in the EU now, and are getting the batteries from the same LG Chem Wroclaw plant as VW. Usable battery capactity is 64kWh versus 58kWh, that's not much difference.

Rusky rusky · 14-05-2020 6:32pm

jonnythefox wrote: »

Are we expected to do a deal not knowing the price?

Tbh, the email says that your preferred VW retailer will be in a position to share the full info pricing when contacting you to discuss the next steps. I guess we need to wait and see.

14-05-2020 6:40pm

Silent Running wrote: »

Why just those three? The 62kWh leaf is more expensive than any of those three. The Tesla Model 3 is significantly more expensive than any of the above , for less range.

I think you are wrong.

It's not an attack on a brand, just off the top of my head called out some.

Yes you're correct, depreciation on Teslas is massive which is good for 2nd hand buyers.

Will the M3 be any different ? different price range, sure those with awd and "full self driving) will add massive costs along with larger battery and as a result loose more money.

However the M3 would probably be a far more desirable car, even in basic spec, much faster acceleration than the Korean and Japanese cars + huge increase in charger power might help keep 2nd hand prices up.

Look at the Kona for instance, Petrol version is what, 24k ? EV version 38K ?

40K for a Nissan Leaf ? no active cooling again ? not a hope, still ChadeMo, = not a hope, all things that could really effect 2nd hand value badly if performance is poor at the fast charger or battery degradation is high.

Silent Running · 14-05-2020 6:48pm

liamog wrote: »

As we've dicussed many times on this thread the TM3 is in a different class performance and size wise.

I definately think there will be pressure on Nissan, Hyundai and Kia to lower there prices. Hyundai and Kia have been able to keep their prices high due to the range premium. I'm not sure they can maintain the Kona for €7,000 more to a ID.3 Pro with just an extra 50km of WLTP range.
They are producing the Kona in the EU now, and are getting the batteries from the same LG Chem Wroclaw plant as VW. Usable battery capactity is 64kWh versus 58kWh, that's not much difference.

Performance wise the Model 3 beats most EVs, but the Niro is more practical, size wise. It's also more efficient and only the bigger battery long range beats the Niro, and you pay a lot more for that.

We don't know real world range or efficiency of the ID3, but the Koreans are hard to beat on that score.

liamog · 14-05-2020 7:18pm

Silent Running wrote: »

Performance wise the Model 3 beats most EVs, but the Niro is more practical, size wise. It's also more efficient and only the bigger battery long range beats the Niro, and you pay a lot more for that.

We don't know real world range or efficiency of the ID3, but the Koreans are hard to beat on that score.

Asking if the ID.3 will put pressure on the TM3 price, is like asking if a new Dacia Duster put's pressure on the Tiguan. Despite public representations, the TM3 is not priced as an affordable saloon car, it's aimed squarely at the Audi/BMW market and is priced (and performs) accordingly.

14-05-2020 7:21pm

liamog wrote: »

Asking if the ID.3 will put pressure on the TM3 price, is like asking if a new Dacia Duster put's pressure on the Tiguan. Despite public representations, the TM3 is not priced as an affordable saloon car, it's aimed squarely at the Audi/BMW market and is priced (and performs) accordingly.

The M3 is a lot more affordable in the USA, so are most cars, but the VAT + VRT adds significant charges. One reason I won't buy a new car in a hurry again.

liamog · 14-05-2020 7:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The M3 is a lot more affordable in the USA, so are most cars, but the VAT + VRT adds significant charges. One reason I won't buy a new car in a hurry again.

Indeed, when you look at comparitive costs in the US an Audi A4 starts lower than a TM3, just like it does here.

Silent Running · 15-05-2020 7:49am

liamog wrote: »

Asking if the ID.3 will put pressure on the TM3 price, is like asking if a new Dacia Duster put's pressure on the Tiguan. Despite public representations, the TM3 is not priced as an affordable saloon car, it's aimed squarely at the Audi/BMW market and is priced (and performs) accordingly.

I didn't ask that question.

Tesla are a bit like Apple: they will have their fanboys, and they will pay whatever they are asked to pay. VW will command their own prices. but also based on perceived value. In other words, whatever they can get away with charging.

Lumen · 15-05-2020 9:07am

Silent Running wrote: »

I didn't ask that question.

I don't think you asked any question. :pac:

The Koreans are doing great with EVs. I did an on paper comparison of the Model 3 and eNiro before setting on the M3 and it was quite close. The one thing that put me off the Kia was that it feels very conventional. You spend over 40k for much the same experience as an ICE. Whereas the M3 is a spaceship, albeit an expensive one.

Despite dieselgate the VW brand is strong. I hope the ID.3 doesn't disappoint those with high expectations.

15-05-2020 10:10am

Lumen wrote: »

I don't think you asked any question. :pac:

The Koreans are doing great with EVs. I did an on paper comparison of the Model 3 and eNiro before setting on the M3 and it was quite close. The one thing that put me off the Kia was that it feels very conventional. You spend over 40k for much the same experience as an ICE. Whereas the M3 is a spaceship, albeit an expensive one.

Despite dieselgate the VW brand is strong. I hope the ID.3 doesn't disappoint those with high expectations.

The M3 is "an expensive one" but you get 5.5 seconds 0-100 with perhaps a software upgrade in the future to allow more power.

The M3 can charge at up to 170 Kw

M3 more high tech and can add new features after via software such as the so called "full self driving" but this will only improve.

The Korean cars do offer more range for the 39K but compared to the Petrol versions they are very expensive and whatever you buy you can't upgrade anything via software, ok, you might be able to update the infotainment but that might be all you can do, if even.

The id.3 will probably have very limited updates, maybe infotainment improvements but I probably wouldn't expect any more.

I do like the idea of getting a M3 2nd hand at a good price and adding an improved version of the "full self driving"

unkel · 15-05-2020 11:33am

Deleted User wrote: »

I do like the idea of getting a M3 2nd hand at a good price

Eh yeah. That won't happen. Excellent, in demand EVs have shown an incredibly low depreciation (while supply is relatively low and there is little competition). Ioniq is an example. Model 3 will be similar enough. And it looks like the import from the UK path will be cut off from 01/01/2020 because of Brexit. Relatively very few Model 3 in this country and their prices will stay strong.

You need to think of a plan B

15-05-2020 11:38am

unkel wrote: »

Eh yeah. That won't happen. Excellent, in demand EVs have shown an incredibly low depreciation (while supply is relatively low and there is little competition). Ioniq is an example. Model 3 will be similar enough. And it looks like the import from the UK path will be cut off from 01/01/2020 because of Brexit. Relatively very few Model 3 in this country and their prices will stay strong.

You need to think of a plan B

LOl, plan B keep the i3 and stop spending money on cars.

Silent Running · 15-05-2020 12:10pm

liamog wrote: »

Indeed, when you look at comparitive costs in the US an Audi A4 starts lower than a TM3, just like it does here.

A more interesting comparison pricewise is the Niro and the TM3 in the US.

$39,620 for the Niro and $36,200 for the TM3. Shows how the different markets work.

Kia isn't seen as Korean tat over there. That's an Irish thing. Just like the "all French cars are dirt and all German cars are faultless" brigade.

unkel · 15-05-2020 12:14pm

Silent Running wrote: »

Kia isn't seen as Korean tat over there.

Indeed. I'd go as far as to say Kia / Hyundai are seen as the new Toyota over there.

Deleted User wrote: »

LOl, plan B keep the i3 and stop spending money on cars.

You'll be rich!

Pity that plan never works for you though, the itch gets too strong and you buy something else. I can see you in a Tesla within a year

liamog · 15-05-2020 12:51pm

Silent Running wrote: »

$39,620 for the Niro and $36,200 for the TM3.

Just to be clear the TM3 starts at $39,990 on the Tesla website, they do that dodgy "include potential savings" in the purchase price. Kia are also still eligibale for the Federal Tax credit, they are pricing the e-Niro at 40k knowing that most people can obtain if for $32,500 plus state incentives.

As to the Korean pricing here, I think its clear they are pricing to what the market will bare. I think the cars coming out this year will put pressure on them to reduce prices.

They may get away with it for another few months, but I think when the ID.4 and Enyaq are out and if they start at a lower pricing they'll have trouble. I give them 6 months.

15-05-2020 12:53pm

unkel wrote: »

You'll be rich!

Pity that plan never works for you though, the itch gets too strong and you buy something else. I can see you in a Tesla within a year

Well I'll still have to pay off the Balloon but still cheaper than buying another car.

I'll keep it a year or two and there might be something decent available 2nd hand.

But lack of U.K cars might complicate things.

I did get a cracking deal on the i3 for sure, 55K new 9 months later, 9,500 Kms 37,500. That was really great and I still enjoy driving it.

Lumen · 15-05-2020 1:48pm

liamog wrote: »

As to the Korean pricing here, I think its clear they are pricing to what the market will bare. I think the cars coming out this year will put pressure on them to reduce prices.

They may get away with it for another few months, but I think when the ID.4 and Enyaq are out and if they start at a lower pricing they'll have trouble. I give them 6 months.

The pricing is irrelevant if there is no supply!

drunkmonkey · 15-05-2020 2:27pm

I wish everyone could make up there mind, in the last few posts we've had the:

Tesla
TM3
M3
Model 3
Tesla Model 3
TM3 SR+

I'm gonna call it the Tesla 3 series from here on in just to avoid confusion.

liamog · 15-05-2020 2:29pm

Well the M3 is made by BMW ...

unkel · 15-05-2020 2:45pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I wish everyone could make up there mind, in the last few posts we've had the:

Tesla
TM3
M3
Model 3
Tesla Model 3
TM3 SR+

Good point, I get irritated about this too. Worse than kw for kWh, kph for km/h, etc. It's just laziness really.

No need to make up your mind, there is only one correct way to name the car, which is the Tesla Model 3. Or Model 3 if you skip the brand and just name the model

If everyone would just please use this to avoid any form of confusion, that would be great.

Lumen · 15-05-2020 3:29pm

liamog wrote: »

Well the M3 is made by BMW ...

No, an M3 is made by BMW.

There are many M3s. Most of them have been made by BMW.

For instance, not-BMW-M3s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_Scout_Car
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haima_M3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_Amphibious_Rig
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_half-track
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panhard_M3

...and so on.

Silent Running · 15-05-2020 4:07pm

liamog wrote: »

Just to be clear the TM3 starts at $39,990 on the Tesla website, they do that dodgy "include potential savings" in the purchase price. Kia are also still eligibale for the Federal Tax credit, they are pricing the e-Niro at 40k knowing that most people can obtain if for $32,500 plus state incentives.

As to the Korean pricing here, I think its clear they are pricing to what the market will bare. I think the cars coming out this year will put pressure on them to reduce prices.

They may get away with it for another few months, but I think when the ID.4 and Enyaq are out and if they start at a lower pricing they'll have trouble. I give them 6 months.

I think that's the biggest if I've ever seen on Boards.

drunkmonkey · 15-05-2020 4:48pm

Silent Running wrote: »

I think that's the biggest if I've ever seen on Boards.

It's not an if it's a when, new batteries on the way to make the telsal 3 series cheap as it's petrol counterparts. What petrol car would you value it at?

https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/14/tesla-said-to-be-readying-new-long-lasting-low-cost-batteries-to-put-evs-at-price-parity-with-gas-cars/

liamog · 15-05-2020 5:56pm

Silent Running wrote: »

I think that's the biggest if I've ever seen on Boards.

I've not really heard any pricing rumours for the ID.4 or Enyaq yet. I'm expecting the El-Born as a sister to the ID.3 to come in slightly below the VW pricing.

pearsefitz · 22-05-2020 4:41am

I was talking to Frank Keane VW dealer. They said basically you will be able to test drive a ID.3 in June/July and the finance packages will be finalized soon after test drotce cars here. They in a weird place where cars will nearly be here before the finance packages released from vw bank. So before one signs on dotted line, you will have had opportunity for a test drive. From what I can gather.... It wont be standard pcp payment break down and I think they wont be discounting largely for covid of 1st preebookers. They know there is people that will buy these cars at a premium cost.

I see the only way to get a real great deal is an alteration of the grants/vat at an EU level. As always who the f knows. Time will tell.
For my e-golf 182 (non executive) Iwas given very rough trade in of say 21,500 for that time frame of July /August.

If the monthly costs end up favourable I hope tp go for mid range model white /grey with upgraded 20 inch wheels if possible.

I learned from commiting to pcp of my current e-golf compromising on trim will piss you off after some time.
So get the config you really like in case you believe you will choose to pay it all off after 36 months and keep car. We have no idea if ev values will hold and if you in a PCP loop then your car value is a bit irrelevant. They give you good or bad trade in based on how likely you are to pull trigger.

I would be very interested in knowing what trade in one gets if going for 49k id.3 vs 42k id.3.

VW ID.3

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