VW ID.3

CFC007

🀣🀣🀣

Silent Running wrote: »

Aww what a pity you can't go because you're working. I'll look after that for you... you're welcome. :D

Fitz2011

CFC007 wrote: »

I found out yesterday from VW that I was picked to go over to Wolfsburg in July to see the pre production ID.3 all expensed by VW. Is anyone else here going?

Yep I got the call yesterday happy days

Silent Running

Congratulations lads! can't wait for the photos and reports. :cool:

Gumbo

CFC007 wrote: »

I found out yesterday from VW that I was picked to go over to Wolfsburg in July to see the pre production ID.3 all expensed by VW. Is anyone else here going?

Deadly. Enjoy.

NellyMcD

CFC007 wrote:

I found out yesterday from VW that I was picked to go over to Wolfsburg in July to see the pre production ID.3 all expensed by VW. Is anyone else here going?

Enjoy. We are envious.

Dempsey

/checks emails

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8-dzxTsA0M

RedorDead

From Automotive News Europe today. VW is adopting a top down strategy it would seem.

BERLIN -- Volkswagen defended its decision to launch a higher-priced ID3 aimed at early adopters before bringing to market the entry version of its first mass-market full-electric car.

VW has started taking orders for a launch-edition ID3 that will be priced at below 40,000 euros ($45,000) in Germany, excluding government incentives.

One of the biggest hurdles to a higher uptake in electric vehicles has been the high cost due to their expensive traction batteries.

Volkswagen has said the ID3 would be a car "for the millions and not the millionaires," repeatedly emphasizing the affordability of the car for the everyday buyer.

But the ID3 will not be immediately become a car for the masses because VW chose to launch first a small-series launch edition of the Golf-sized car with a price tag higher than the cost of the entry version of its Passat midsize sedan. This was due in part to VW executives deciding that the company had to spark interest in the ID3's technology first, before the mass-market customers would feel comfortable purchasing a car with a different powertrain than a gasoline or diesel unit.

At the Automotive News Europe Congress last month, VW brand marketing chief Jochen Sengpiehl said the automaker is focusing initial marketing for the ID3 on "early adopters" of EV technology.

Internal discussions
At a press briefing in Berlin, Silke Bagschik, head of sales and marketing for VW brand's electric vehicle line, said there had been internal discussions over which versions to launch first because "we said it would start with 30,000 euros and we went first with one for just under 40,000."

Bagschik said it would have been "wrong to go with a version with a shorter range and the lower equipment level."

VW said at the ID3 concept's debut at the 2016 Paris auto show that the 125 kilowatt (168 hp) electric car would cost roughly as much as a comparably equipped Golf with the same performance.

Early adopters want features such as augmented reality heads-up display, Bagschik said.

Toppling Tesla
VW brand aims to topple Tesla as the world's top-selling EV maker by 2025 selling 1 million EVs a year with more than 20 battery-powered cars in its lineup.

Tesla generated 400,000 orders for its Model 3 in part because they claimed in the first quarter of 2016 that it would sell for $35,000. The first deliveries were made in July the following year, but it was not until February that Tesla announced the Model 3 would be available at this price.

To do so, however, CEO Elon Musk said he would be closing stores to focus more on online sales. Only weeks later, he reversed course to keep a number open but at the same time ceased advertising the entry price. Excluding federal tax credits and other government subsidies, U.S. customers shopping Tesla's website can order the Model 3 Standard Plus for no less than $39,900.

Bagschik said VW customers would not have to wait anywhere near that long for the ID3 entry version to arrive.

After the ID3 debuts at the Frankfurt auto show in September, orders will begin in earnest for the 58-kilowatt-hour version that like the launch edition will be able to travel 480 km (298 miles) on one charge under WLTP. Then comes the base 47 kWh version Pure with 330 km.

"Customers can order [the base version] next year -- by the middle of next year at the latest," Bagschik said. The 77 kWh Range S with a 550-km range will go on sale last at a date yet to be announced.

Since pre-booking began on May 8, prospective customers making a non-binding deposit of 1,000 euros have reserved over two-thirds of the 30,000 units of the ID3 launch edition. Volkswagen expects to have the series sold out before the public even has a chance to see it in September.

Bagschik said dealer feedback indicated that those reserving a production slot had done their research on the car and were likely to follow through with a purchase once orders are taken after its unveiling.

Volkswagen disclosed charging and battery details for the ID3 on Monday.

The automaker said it will guarantee that the batteries will retain at least 70 percent of their usable capacity after eight years or 160,000 km (100,000 miles) of use.

unkel

40k before incentives in Germany would be a bit over a grand more here because of our higher VAT, almost a grand in VRT and then minus the SEAI 5k grant, so 37k

Far too rich for me. I would have preferred an entry level car for 25k. Would very likely have bought that. Gonna keep my reservation for the moment, but probably taking my money back at some point. Also want to personally verify that it is indeed the size of a Passat on the inside, or at the very least the size of Ioniq. Golf size car is too small for us.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I would have preferred an entry level car for 25k. Would very likely have bought that.

Whats your pricing prediction for the entry level model OTR here?

unkel

Very hard to say. Depends on what year it will become available and how slow EV competition will pick up. The manufacturers sure don't seem to be in a hurry and are all maximising what they can get for their cars. The only EVs for sale today that are good value for money are Tesla Model S and Model X

Progress is disappointingly slow

McGiver

KCross wrote:

Whats your pricing prediction for the entry level model OTR here?

26 to 27k. The big question is the specs and how much will any of extra cost. For example if you want to buy the HUD.

redlead

unkel wrote: »

40k before incentives in Germany would be a bit over a grand more here because of our higher VAT, almost a grand in VRT and then minus the SEAI 5k grant, so 37k

Far too rich for me. I would have preferred an entry level car for 25k. Would very likely have bought that. Gonna keep my reservation for the moment, but probably taking my money back at some point. Also want to personally verify that it is indeed the size of a Passat on the inside, or at the very least the size of Ioniq. Golf size car is too small for us.

So basically VW are doing what every other EV manufacturer are doing and releasing small batches of over priced cars despite all the promises. When I bought a Diesel 2 years ago I was sure that there would be a host of genuine family car alternatives by the 3 year mark. This is definitely not going to happen now. EV roll out is happening at a snails pace at this stage. Has anyone pointed out to the carbon tax brigade in the government that EV supply us virtually non existent? Realistically I'll be looking at an over priced Phev at this stage if I want to change.

jusmeig

redlead wrote: »

So basically VW are doing what every other EV manufacturer are doing and releasing small batches of over priced cars despite all the promises.

Promises and truthfulness are not really a VW strong-point.

Shefwedfan

redlead wrote: »

So basically VW are doing what every other EV manufacturer are doing and releasing small batches of over priced cars despite all the promises. When I bought a Diesel 2 years ago I was sure that there would be a host of genuine family car alternatives by the 3 year mark. This is definitely not going to happen now. EV roll out is happening at a snails pace at this stage. Has anyone pointed out to the carbon tax brigade in the government that EV supply us virtually non existent? Realistically I'll be looking at an over priced Phev at this stage if I want to change.

I think that is a bit early to say.



The release model is 30k which are just for specific customers.



IN reality the main release is next year when all the battery options and trim options will be available. Then we can say if overpriced or not.

Silent Running

redlead wrote: »

So basically VW are doing what every other EV manufacturer are doing and releasing small batches of over priced cars despite all the promises. When I bought a Diesel 2 years ago I was sure that there would be a host of genuine family car alternatives by the 3 year mark. This is definitely not going to happen now. EV roll out is happening at a snails pace at this stage. Has anyone pointed out to the carbon tax brigade in the government that EV supply us virtually non existent? Realistically I'll be looking at an over priced Phev at this stage if I want to change.

I've placed a deposit on the ID 3, but I'm taking delivery of an e Niro soon. Why? Well, the ID is at least a year away, there is no firm information on price and the spec hasn't been announced for the 1st edition. Chances are that it won't have the stuff I want, like the AI heads up display and the panoramic roof.

I may order one late next year... but I may be happy to stay with the e Niro.

drunkmonkey

redlead wrote: »

So basically VW are doing what every other EV manufacturer are doing and releasing small batches of over priced cars despite all the promises. When I bought a Diesel 2 years ago I was sure that there would be a host of genuine family car alternatives by the 3 year mark. This is definitely not going to happen now. EV roll out is happening at a snails pace at this stage. Has anyone pointed out to the carbon tax brigade in the government that EV supply us virtually non existent? Realistically I'll be looking at an over priced Phev at this stage if I want to change.

I wouldn't worry about it, Were already behind target of about 500 EV's after 48hrs. It still leaves 1.5 million petrol and diesel cars on the road by 2030. The price of diesel will go up to match petrol but your mpg will be still higher than a petrol.
Germany's plan is to have 900 hydrogen stations operational by 2023 a lot integrated into existing garages as it's dispensed the same way as petrol. PHEV's and EV's will probably be frowned upon by 2030.
There's not 1 mention of hydrogen in this plan, as far as I know we don't even have 1 hydrogen station here yet. Nikola is already sold out of the next 8yrs production of hydrogen trucks. That should say something about where this is all heading. Where's going to get diesel milage with hydrogen that's not going to happen with lithium batteries any time soon.

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The release model is 30k which are just for specific customers.

You mean €40k, right?
The 1st edition is "under €40k" in Germany.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There's not 1 mention of hydrogen in this plan, as far as I know we don't even have 1 hydrogen station here yet. Nikola is already sold out of the next 8yrs production of hydrogen trucks. That should say something about where this is all heading. Where's going to get diesel milage with hydrogen that's not going to happen with lithium batteries any time soon.

It makes sense for trucks. Not for cars.

Mickeroo

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it, Were already behind target of about 500 EV's after 48hrs. It still leaves 1.5 million petrol and diesel cars on the road by 2030. The price of diesel will go up to match petrol but your mpg will be still higher than a petrol.
Germany's plan is to have 900 hydrogen stations operational by 2023 a lot integrated into existing garages as it's dispensed the same way as petrol. PHEV's and EV's will probably be frowned upon by 2030.
There's not 1 mention of hydrogen in this plan, as far as I know we don't even have 1 hydrogen station here yet. Nikola is already sold out of the next 8yrs production of hydrogen trucks. That should say something about where this is all heading. Where's going to get diesel milage with hydrogen that's not going to happen with lithium batteries any time soon.

Hydrogen would seem like a backward step when we already have cars you can fuel at home. It's definitely the future for heavy haulage and the like though imo.

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

You mean €40k, right?
The 1st edition is "under €40k" in Germany.





It makes sense for trucks. Not for cars.

I meant they are only releasing 30k of the ID.3 1st. Not the price 30k

unkel

redlead wrote: »

So basically VW are doing what every other EV manufacturer are doing and releasing small batches of over priced cars despite all the promises. When I bought a Diesel 2 years ago I was sure that there would be a host of genuine family car alternatives by the 3 year mark. This is definitely not going to happen now. EV roll out is happening at a snails pace at this stage.

Pretty much. It's our own (EU) fault, we are not tightening the screws on them enough.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Germany's plan is to have 900 hydrogen stations operational by 2023 a lot integrated into existing garages as it's dispensed the same way as petrol. PHEV's and EV's will probably be frowned upon by 2030.

You reckon the future for cars is hydrogen and not battery EV? LOL, lad, this is 2019, not 2012. Even fully hydrogen bought in companies like BMW gave up on that idea many years ago

Shefwedfan

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Germany's plan is to have 900 hydrogen stations operational by 2023 a lot integrated into existing garages as it's dispensed the same way as petrol. PHEV's and EV's will probably be frowned upon by 2030.

Even Toyota have given up on Hydrogen and announced a full BEV range starting to come out next year

The explosion of the hydrogen station in Norway could have a huge effect on the future of hydrogen. It is very difficult to store hydrogen safely

drunkmonkey

It's been a disaster of a week for Hydrogen but it does look a lot more like the future. Some of the big guns are already in, even mercedes has launched the GLC F-CELL. Refuelling is the problem. As far as trucks, planes and machinery go they'll probably all be hydrogen in the future so cars may follow.
I dunno it's hard to know what's going to happen...it just feels that EV's are loosing a little traction as they can't seem to get the cost and range right. Even the little Zoe is 30k after incentives for a nice spec.
There's not even an option for a 7 seater so nothing to replace the Mrs car with in an EV.

drunkmonkey

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Even Toyota have given up on Hydrogen and announced a full BEV range starting to come out next year

The explosion of the hydrogen station in Norway could have a huge effect on the future of hydrogen. It is very difficult to store hydrogen safely

Have we not seem a few Tesla station fires? Exploding cars etc. I don't they've given up they're just figuring out what happened before continuing. I'm not sure Toyota knows what it's up to as it's fingers are in all the pies. Even the likes of Volvo have said they'd possible start making hydrogen cars in 10yrs.

Mickeroo

Tbh the cynic in me thinks we'll end up driving what the large automakers decide they want us to drive whether that be full EVs or Hydrogen fuel cell. They might get bullied out of making diesel/petrol in the long run but they'll still be the ones that control what the alternative is (along with a helping hand from big oil).

unkel

drunkmonkey wrote: »

it just feels that EV's are loosing a little traction as they can't seem to get the cost and range right. Even the little Zoe is 30k after incentives for a nice spec.

That's because manufacturers are profiteering and they are not motivated to produce more EVs. Supply <<<<<<< demand. Hence prices are far too high. Kona EV with low spec (but admittedly a large battery) for €39k is absurd imho, yet people are buying every last one of them, with a 12 month waiting list

This will change dramatically over 2021 and 2022 when the pressure on them about emissions gets much tighter than it is now and EVs will be mass produced

This loss of traction is entirely on us (EU), not on the manufacturers

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There's not even an option for a 7 seater so nothing to replace the Mrs car with in an EV.

There is. I nearly bought a 142 one last month. Tesla Model S and Model X have always had 7 seater options.

Shefwedfan

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Have we not seem a few Tesla station fires? Exploding cars etc. I don't they've given up they're just figuring out what happened before continuing. I'm not sure Toyota knows what it's up to as it's fingers are in all the pies. Even the likes of Volvo have said they'd possible start making hydrogen cars in 10yrs.

Tesla charging station fire?



I know a couple of cars went on fire but never seen a charging station.


Hydrogen even before the fire is hard to store and also really really expensive. If it wasn't you would see stations all over the place. Even in Norway they have very few.

drunkmonkey

unkel wrote: »

There is. I nearly bought a 142 one last month. Tesla Model S and Model X have always had 7 seater options.

I couldn't bring myself to buy a tesal. Wouldn't mind the a battery pack out of one to convert my Kombi which I've to make a decision on what engine is going back into it soon. Half tempted to go electric if I could get a reasonably priced battery pack.
I was taking more on the lines of a proper 7 seater, we can still stuff a fair bit in the Volvo when it's fully loaded. Buggy, Bicycle, folding chairs for the beach etc. Nothing out there comparable in an EV.

unkel

Model X has more storage than any Volvo...

It will also do 0-60 in 3s with 7 people and all cargo on board. Nothing out there comparable in an ICE

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I couldn't bring myself to buy a tesal. Wouldn't mind the a battery pack out of one to convert my Kombi.

You better start saving

Google EVWest

drunkmonkey

Yea was looking at EV west, just been stareing at the price of this wondering would anybody be loony enough to pay it if I done something similar, https://edubconversions.co.uk/2019/02/19/200-mile-guaranteed-range-from-69020/
Think I can get most of it together for less than 5k it's just the battery is the cost problem.
I'll check out the x, I still think there another delorean though, more bad news again today.

Sabre Man

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hydrogen even before the fire is hard to store and also really really expensive. If it wasn't you would see stations all over the place. Even in Norway they have very few.

All Norwegian hydrogen filling stations are still closed after the fire, and all planned installations are suspended.

In addition the price is about €9 euro per kg, which is sufficient for driving about 100 km, so it's more expensive than driving an EV.

With Tesla Model 3 being able to charge at a maximum rate of about 1600 km per hour, and Audi and Porsche also offering EVs that can charge quite fast, who would want a hydrogen car instead?