How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Segregated schooling has meant no reform in decades leading to unacceptable educational outcomes.

More sensationalism.
It is probably one of the most observed and studied systems on these islands and has seen plenty of reforms. Look at the list here.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/education-reform-in-northern-ireland-28034497.html

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

More sensationalism.
It is probably one of the most observed and studied systems on these islands and has seen plenty of reforms. Look at the list here.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/education-reform-in-northern-ireland-28034497.html

That article is from 2006!!!!!!

Thanks for making my point so eloquently.

The education system in Northern Ireland is a disgrace. A succession of Ministers in the North have failed dismally to improve it.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

That article is from 2006!!!!!!

Thanks for making my point so eloquently.

The education system in Northern Ireland is a disgrace. A succession of Ministers in the North have failed dismally to improve it.

You said

blanch152 wrote:

no reform in decades

Sensationalist and wrong.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

blanch152 wrote: »

That article is from 2006!!!!!!

Thanks for making my point so eloquently.

The education system in Northern Ireland is a disgrace. A succession of Ministers in the North have failed dismally to improve it.

So we should try something different?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Majority of people in the Republic want Irish unity referendum within five years
That’s according to the latest Amárach/Claire Byrne Live poll for TheJournal.ie.

https://www.thejournal.ie/united-ireland-border-poll-results-4896963-Nov2019/

markodaly

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Slightly tangential but saw this today. It’s interesting. There is outright classism at play but it’s astonishing how much more money is given to some over others. ** Leo congratulating castleknock tennis club on a huge grant only this week too (congratulating himself. It’s his constituency)



https://twitter.com/boucherhayes/status/1197576724218875905?s=21

The largest net benefactors being the GAA and soccer, not exactly middle-class sports I think.

The main issue here is that people associated with Golf clubs and Tennis clubs may be more clued in, in getting the forms from the relevant departments filled out correctly and making their case, than say a boxing club.

markodaly

blanch152 wrote: »

That article is from 2006!!!!!!

Thanks for making my point so eloquently.

The education system in Northern Ireland is a disgrace. A succession of Ministers in the North have failed dismally to improve it.

A sectarian political landscape will seep into the education of the region as well.
Both the DUP and SF benefit from the status quo, therefore little or no reform and certainly no major push to integrate schooling.

FrancieBrady

Still waiting for somebody to outline the sectarian policies or discriminatory Anti GFA policy of any party but the DUP.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

markodaly wrote: »

The largest net benefactors being the GAA and soccer, not exactly middle-class sports I think.

The main issue here is that people associated with Golf clubs and Tennis clubs may be more clued in, in getting the forms from the relevant departments filled out correctly and making their case, than say a boxing club.

Not listed are the grants horse racing and greyhound racing get.

Greyhound racing gets a baffling 13million a year.

How??? That baffles me

markodaly

https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-leaflet-sectarianism-2080340-May2015/

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-leaflet-sectarianism-2080340-May2015/

Are the census compilers engaging in 'sectarianism' then?
Is almost every commentator on Irish politics 'sectarian' when they use these particular figures in that way?

I don't think you truly understand the word 'sectarianism' Mark.

Sectarianism is a form of prejudice, discrimination, or hatred arising from attaching relations of inferiority and superiority to differences between subdivisions within a group.

Quoting the demographic change is not sectarianism Mark, if it is, then there are many many people guilty of that including yourself and blanch etc at various times on these pages.

I asked you to identify policies of any other party but the DUP that are sectarian, i.e. a form of prejudice, discrimination against, or that incite hatred against other groups or religions.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are the census compilers engaging in 'sectarianism' then?
.
.
.
Quoting the demographic change is not sectarianism Mark,

Yes, of course, its not. Why would SF put the census information on an election leaflet citing the Catholic/Protestant breakdown, if only for educational purposes? :pac::pac:

We do that all the time in the Republic, do we not?

I guess putting a loaf of Kingsmill bread on your head and making a joke out if it, is not sectarian either. SF would never engage in that now, would they?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, of course, its not. Why would SF put the census information on an election leaflet citing the Catholic/Protestant breakdown, if only for educational purposes? :pac::pac:

We do that all the time in the Republic, do we not?

I guess putting a loaf of Kingsmill bread on your head and making a joke out if it, is not sectarian either. SF would never engage in that now, would they?

As I thought, you don't have a clue what 'sectarianism' is, nor what 'policy' means either.

And you are assiduously avoiding that elephant in the room again.
There may very well be members of SF or any other party that lapse into sectarianism from time to time,(it will be a long time, perhaps a few generations before it disappears) but there is absolutely no way you can present a piece of policy from any other party that is sectarian...other than that of the DUP and TUV.
Why? Because as parties they are not sectarian and avoid it.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I thought, you don't have a clue what 'sectarianism' is, nor what 'policy' means either.

And you are assiduously avoiding that elephant in the room again.
There may very well be members of SF or any other party that lapse into sectarianism from time to time,(it will be a long time, perhaps a few generations before it disappears) but there is absolutely no way you can present a piece of policy from any other party that is sectarian...other than that of the DUP and TUV.
Why? Because as parties they are not sectarian and avoid it.

We can be as sure about anything to know that there are plenty of members of Sinn Fein who engage in sustained sectarianism.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

We can be as sure about anything to know that there are plenty of members of Sinn Fein who engage in sustained sectarianism.

We know that is a prejudiced position.


There are many individual episodes examples of sectarianism in NI...nobody is denying that.

Whenever you can pinpoint sectarianism in policy...fire away. That's before we get onto state subsidised sectarianism in the form of the OO etc.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I thought, you don't have a clue what 'sectarianism' is, nor what 'policy' means either.

And you are assiduously avoiding that elephant in the room again.
There may very well be members of SF or any other party that lapse into sectarianism from time to time,(it will be a long time, perhaps a few generations before it disappears) but there is absolutely no way you can present a piece of policy from any other party that is sectarian...other than that of the DUP and TUV.
Why? Because as parties they are not sectarian and avoid it.

Well, remember the saying "do what I do, not what I say"

https://www.ulster.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/410227/A-Review-Addressing-Sectarianism-in-Northern-Ireland_FINAL.pdf

"The growth of integrated schooling in
Northern Ireland appears to have come to a
halt under devolution. In some cases, shared
education seems to have been set against
integrated education, as an alternative rather
than a complement to integration. In general,
children born after the Agreement are educated
in the same schools as previous generations.
Shared education has produced a number of
important and innovative projects but has not
yet been adopted wholeheartedly"

Sinn Fein have held the Ministry for Education for most of that period. Their failure on education is shameful, particularly their support for the continuation of sectarian-based segregationist education.

Edit: It is clear that you don't have the slightest clue about sectarianism, by the way.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, remember the saying "do what I do, not what I say"

https://www.ulster.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/410227/A-Review-Addressing-Sectarianism-in-Northern-Ireland_FINAL.pdf

"The growth of integrated schooling in
Northern Ireland appears to have come to a
halt under devolution. In some cases, shared
education seems to have been set against
integrated education, as an alternative rather
than a complement to integration. In general,
children born after the Agreement are educated
in the same schools as previous generations.
Shared education has produced a number of
important and innovative projects but has not
yet been adopted wholeheartedly"

Sinn Fein have held the Ministry for Education for most of that period. Their failure on education is shameful, particularly their support for the continuation of sectarian-based segregationist education.

So because they haven't taken the draconian fascistic steps you want them to take, and nobody else is demanding politically, they have failed? Ha ha ha. That's genuinely funny blanch.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Edit: It is clear that you don't have the slightest clue about sectarianism, by the way.

Soon as you identity policy that discriminates against others on the basis of religion and identity...you can point fingers blanch. Until then, you just look silly tbh.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I thought, you don't have a clue what 'sectarianism' is, nor what 'policy' means either.

Gerry Kelly cited those census stats for the craic, I suppose.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So because they haven't taken the draconian fascistic steps you want them to take, and nobody else is demanding politically, they have failed? Ha ha ha. That's genuinely funny blanch.

They haven't taken any steps, Francie, that is the point.

They have run education since the GFA, and things are no better now than they were before. They have maintained and promoted an apartheid system of education. It is a disgraceful outcome from a bunch of hypocritical politicians who claim to be anti-sectarian.

Like your posts demonstrate, they lack the self-awareness to realise how sectarian they are.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So because they haven't taken the draconian fascistic steps you want them to take, and nobody else is demanding politically, they have failed? Ha ha ha. That's genuinely funny blanch.

I love the fact that if SF doesn't demand it, it means it's not important.

markodaly

blanch152 wrote: »

They haven't taken any steps, Francie, that is the point.

They have run education since the GFA, and things are no better now than they were before. They have maintained and promoted an apartheid system of education. It is a disgraceful outcome from a bunch of hypocritical politicians who claim to be anti-sectarian.

Like your posts demonstrate, they lack the self-awareness to realise how sectarian they are.

The white-only school policy of 1950 deep south America wasn't racist either according to our dear Francie. :pac::pac::pac:

Indeed forcing white kids to mix with black kids would be 'draconian'. :D:D:D

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Soon as you identity policy that discriminates against others on the basis of religion and identity...you can point fingers blanch. Until then, you just look silly tbh.

Hiding behind if it isn't policy, then they are not sectarian is rubbish.

The absence of an effective policy to change the sectarian apartheid system of education is enough. However, when added to the fact that Sinn Fein have run the Ministry of Education for most of the time since the GFA, the failure to actually change anything on the ground, as previously evidenced, shows a criminal level of sectarianism.

When you see Sinn Fein collapsing the Northern Ireland Executive on the grounds of the Irish language and same-sex marriage, yet maintaining the apartheid system of education, you see some of the biggest hypocrites in the world.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Gerry Kelly cited those census stats for the craic, I suppose.

No, he cited them as numerous other people do...all the fecking time. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

They haven't taken any steps, Francie, that is the point.

They have run education since the GFA, and things are no better now than they were before. They have maintained and promoted an apartheid system of education. It is a disgraceful outcome from a bunch of hypocritical politicians who claim to be anti-sectarian.

Like your posts demonstrate, they lack the self-awareness to realise how sectarian they are.

I think it was SF who introduced and promoted the Shared Education ACT. but there is none so blind as they cannot see any good.

Education is changing in NI, of that there is no doubt. Introducing draconian fascistic controls/demands will drive people into cul de sacs when there is no need to do it. Sectarianism is not widespread in NI and needs targeted solutions not knee jerk, chaotic ones.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

They have run education since the GFA,

It is sentences like this that reveal your complete ignorance of the jurisdiction. Education is not a fiefdom for SF to run as they please...this isn't the 1950's of 'sectarian government of the statlet'.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think it was SF who introduced and promoted the Shared Education ACT. but there is none so blind as they cannot see any good.

Education is changing in NI, of that there is no doubt. Introducing draconian fascistic controls/demands will drive people into cul de sacs when there is no need to do it. Sectarianism is not widespread in NI and needs targeted solutions not knee jerk, chaotic ones.

You keep saying it Francie, but that doesn't make it true. The report I quoted was daming - read that post again. All of that has been under Sinn Fein's watc.

As for sectarianism not being widespread, who do you think you are kidding? No integrated housing, no integrated schools, peace walls still in place, what reality are you in? Northern Ireland is a sectarian society and the two main parties like it that way.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, he cited them as numerous other people do...all the fecking time. :rolleyes:

On election material? Really?

Give me an example of this in the south Francie?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You keep saying it Francie, but that doesn't make it true. The report I quoted was daming - read that post again. All of that has been under Sinn Fein's watc.

As for sectarianism not being widespread, who do you think you are kidding? No integrated housing, no integrated schools, peace walls still in place, what reality are you in? Northern Ireland is a sectarian society and the two main parties like it that way.

Peace-walls are local issues and not widespread across NI. Public housing became segregated during the conflict, between them The DUP and SDLP (who have been responsible for the housing portfolio btw) have been working on changing that when building new estates.
It's still an issue, but perhaps FORCING people into living together could be done when forcing schools to integrate?

FrancieBrady

If 'hatred' of a political party could be defined as a type of sectarianism then mark and blanch and a few others could be defined as sectarian in extremis.

A trenchant refusal to see that progress has been made in NI on sectarianism (which is still an issue that won't disappear overnight or by any amount of FORCE you wish to try) right across the divides. And the old 'elephant in the room', that there is only two parties (DUP and TUV) that enshrine discrimination and sectarianism in policy.
Here is a brighter take on what is happening in NI and what can happen when the will is there.
https://www.thesocialchangeinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/SCI-Shared-Education-Report.pdf