How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Form a political party for your we/our and see how you do. I can only imagine the bunch of oddballs it would attract.

I can see it now, Ruth Dudley Edwards, Kevin Myers, Ian O'Doherty, Eoin Harris, Michael McDowell.. all the contrarian, revisionist, trolls aligning themselves with the UDA/UVF.

Just be careful you don't cause a deep rift in the body-politic in the south - you wouldn't want the 'up there' issues going island-wide.

I think it is getting near the time to open a book on who is going to be first to break from the blocks in an attempt to 'own' a UI - Fine Gael or FF.

My money is on FG at the minute. I think Coveney sees it as clearly as he sees the leadership.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think it is getting near the time to open a book on who is going to be first to break from the blocks in an attempt to 'own' a UI - Fine Gael or FF.

My money is on FG at the minute. I think Coveney sees it as clearly as he sees the leadership.

No way. FF I’d say.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did you forget the polling that shows how many want a UI Facehugger?

Did you forget the polling that shows how few are willing to pay anything for it?

We've down this dance Francie - there will be no support if/when the costs become public - I suspect deep down you know this too.

The inherent contradiction in your position is once again exposed. NI needs to be successful for it to be palatable for the ROI to unify with but the more successful it becomes, the less the need to unify.

When you manage to square that circle, without the moneytree nonsense, you'll be getting somewhere.

facehugger99

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Form a political party for your we/our and see how you do. I can only imagine the bunch of oddballs it would attract.

Why would I need to?

The current situation suits me perfectly.

You're the one espousing change.

In some ways, I've already won - I get that must hurt.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Did you forget the polling that shows how few are willing to pay anything for it?

The one you sold as 'a vast majority'

We've down this dance Francie - there will be no support if/when the costs become public - I suspect deep down you know this too.

The inherent contradiction in your position is once again exposed. NI needs to be successful for it to be palatable for the ROI to unify with but the more successful it becomes, the less the need to unify.

When you manage to square that circle, without the moneytree nonsense, you'll be getting somewhere.

Nobody wants to pay more taxes to maintain the status quo or worse.

Plenty will invest in something new though. It is only a few generations since this country shook off 800 years of dependence and went it alone.
People will take risks if they are framed properly and are for the betterment of everyone.

And of course there will be those who will resist and sit in dark room counting their money and trying to hold on to it.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Why would I need to?

The current situation suits me perfectly.

You're the one espousing change.

In some ways, I've already won - I get that must hurt.

You have to turn those opinion polls around FH.

tipptom

10-15 years

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

No way. FF I’d say.

No,id say FG,Varadkar has already been putting it out there and outflanked FF and I would say it will be prominent in the upcoming FG manifesto to try and dampen SF votes.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

Why would I need to?

The current situation suits me perfectly.

The moment a border poll is called that all stops and people will have to nail their colours to the mast. That's regardless of how the poll turns out and I believe it would be a relatively easy defeat for a UI in the short term.

You're the one espousing change.

No actually you are. A United Ireland is baked into this country - you'll learn that sooner or later. You have to come up with a vision for a separatist, permanently partitioned, state because this one doesn't belong to people with your views.

In some ways, I've already won - I get that must hurt.

Sure god love ye. This issue isn't going away and will outlast the both of us.

facehugger99

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

No actually you are. A United Ireland is baked into this country - you'll learn that sooner or later. You have to come up with a vision for a separatist, permanently partitioned, state because this one doesn't belong to people with your views.

The IRA and their acolytes always did refuse to recognise the legitimacy of this State.

They were faced down though.

Sad that some still parrot their sinister rhetoric.

Go mutter your threats to someone else Tom - you views carry no weight in this fair Republic

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Plenty will invest in something new though. It is only a few generations since this country shook off 800 years of dependence and went it alone.
People will take risks if they are framed properly and are for the betterment of everyone.

I doubt even you believe the bullsh;t you're peddling.

Good luck trying to convince Paddy-taxpayer to buy your magic beans.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

I doubt even you believe the bullsh;t you're peddling.

Good luck trying to convince Paddy-taxpayer to buy your magic beans.

They are convinced from what I can see. Government and the rest of the EU are convinced that it is the only real secure answer to Brexit and the UK electorate would rather Brexit than keep it.

The people with 'magic beans' are the ones clinging to a poll conducted years ago.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

They’re crapping themselves. Also doing more for UI than SF ever have. Lol

https://twitter.com/duponline/status/1197557365370970113?s=21

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

The IRA and their acolytes always did refuse to recognise the legitimacy of this State. They were faced down though.

The IRA essentially created this state, did you forget that? Can you point me to one utterance in the history of this state that the current set-up is the final destination?

Go mutter your threats...

It's telling that you consider even discussion of a UI a 'threat' and that 'up there' issues are really 'down here' issues too. Threat to what exactly?

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

They’re crapping themselves. Also doing more for UI than SF ever have. Lol

https://twitter.com/duponline/status/1197557365370970113?s=21

The utter siege mentality of these people...anyone who stands against what they want is 'aligned with evil' - Alliance, SDLP, SF - judging by the appalling banners appearing in Belfast.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are convinced from what I can see.

Well you're obviously seeing things that aren't there then - a trip to specsavers might be in order.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Government and the rest of the EU are convinced that it is the only real secure answer to Brexit

I must have missed this joint policy statement - no doubt you'll be able to llnk me to it.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

and the UK electorate would rather Brexit than keep it.

Didn't notice the referendum on this - link to back this statement up please.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The people with 'magic beans' are the ones clinging to a poll conducted years ago.

The B&A survey was in April this year and showed only 37% willing to pay, some unspecified amount, of tax for a UI.

The actual figure when it comes to putting hands in pockets will be less than half that - I guess that's been previously explained to you numerous times though.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

The actual figure when it comes to putting hands in pockets will be less than half that

Have you a 'link' to this?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Was that the time 37% was a majority and bigger than 63%?

Fun times in huggers alternative reality

facehugger99

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The IRA essentially created this state, did you forget that?

Do you prefer the term Provos? There's a limit to how simple I can frame my posts before I'd get bored explaining.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Can you point me to one utterance in the history of this state that the current set-up is the final destination?

Why would such a statement be required? - it's self-evident. You must have missed the GFA changes to our constitution.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

You must have missed the GFA changes to our constitution.

In which we have an 'aspiration' to unite the people of this island.

Which political party do you think will fight against that constitutional aspiration when the time comes?

Just interested in where you are going to find a political voice. NO political party has had the courage to campaign against that aspiration.

Who is going to represent you?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

FG would be the most UI sceptical political outfit in the South would it be safe to say? This is a party that was also known as the United Ireland Party and has former Easter Rising Commanders and War of Independence IRA men as its founding members.

Let's say a border poll is called in the north and politicians in the south are asked to either support a UI or resist it. What happens to those who don't want a UI in FG? Do they get kicked out?

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

FG would be the most UI sceptical political outfit in the South would it be safe to say? This is a party that was also known as the United Ireland Party and has former Easter Rising Commanders and War of Independence IRA men as its founding members.

Let's say a border poll is called in the north and politicians in the south are asked to either support a UI or resist it. What happens to those who don't want a UI in FG? Do they get kicked out?

There will be a simple pivot. Somebody will be pushed out to say 'The time is right...we couldn't do this when the IRA was active blah blah blah and they will all be for it on that basis'. Stock political u-turn, in other words.

There will be a battle to own this project between FF and FG. It is the final battle of the Civil War politics that has wreaked havoc on this state too.

James Brown

10-15 years

Kenny was all teary eyed on the issue before he left.
Sure Leo has photo of a former terrorist on his mantle piece.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The IRA essentially created this state, did you forget that?

And the Provisional IRA tried to take it down, thankfully the State stood firm against them in the 1970s and 1980s.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Can you point me to one utterance in the history of this state that the current set-up is the final destination?

The GFA allows for it to be one of a number of final destinations.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is the final battle of the Civil War politics that has wreaked havoc on this state too.

Perhaps we get a coalescing of UI resistant politics into what would essentially be a separatist party that aligns itself with the DUP in the north?

A place for separatists, southern unionists, and partitonists to feel at home. Like a political version of rescue centre for abandoned pets.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

The Ira tried to bring down the state?

Ehh what?

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In which we have an 'aspiration' to unite the people of this island.

Which political party do you think will fight against that constitutional aspiration when the time comes?

Just interested in where you are going to find a political voice. NO political party has had the courage to campaign against that aspiration.

Who is going to represent you?

I don't think anyone will vote against unifying the "people" of Ireland.

Do you need a dictionary or something Francie?

The territorial claim's been gone for decades now.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

I don't think anyone will vote against unifying the "people" of Ireland.

Do you need a dictionary or something Francie?

The territorial claim's been gone for decades now.

Sure...a border poll will be about a big happy clappy jump in the air saying we love one another and then we just go back to the way things are.

Nothing to do with territory at all.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

then we just go back to the way things are.

The air of desperation as it dawns on them that this issue is not contained 'up there'.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sure...a border poll will be about a big happy clappy jump in the air saying we love one another and then we just go back to the way things are.

Nothing to do with territory at all.

Except we weren't talking about a border poll - were we?

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Except we weren't talking about a border poll - were we?

Ha ha...we are now going to pivot away to pretending we were talking about 'the abstract unifying of minds'.

You are gas.