How long before Irish reunification?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don't think anyone should have a veto but unionists should have input into any discussions regarding a UI.

That’s just it. Leo is deferring to the DUP who simply wont engage in that conversation. But it’s not up to them. Citizens assemblies are made up of ordinary people carefully selected from all points of view on the spectrum of the issue at hand.
Regular unionists will take part id say. But no never never! Will just see that element left behind and complaining with the outcome. They have form.

Dup refused repeated invitations on an all island brexit strategy. And look how that worked out for them.

This is what happens when you don’t take a seat at the table

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/dup-wont-budge-on-taoiseachs-allireland-brexit-talk-35085351.html

maccored

30-40 years

the DUP refused to be part of the GFA and when they got left in the cold, changed their minds

maccored

30-40 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don't think anyone should have a veto but unionists should have input into any discussions regarding a UI.

I cant see them not being asked to participate. if they dont, who's problem is that? exactly - their own self created problem.

James Brown

10-15 years

markodaly wrote: »

Look down on GAA folk? Nice try Matt to derail the thread.

It isnt playing the system, its knowing how to navigate the system and its multiple layers of beuarcarcy. All of it above board and legal.

That's as I read it. Questioning your post is not derailment.
So why would people in a boxing or GAA club be less equipped? Can you elaborate? Are you suggesting people who like or are involved in certain sports aren't even able to spell Bureaucracy?

James Brown

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Its not just all about Irish nationalism's desires though,its also about unionist desires too.

They are welcome to stay once their visa application passes

Of course they should have a say, but an equal democratic say like they actively worked to deny everyone else.

joseywhales

10-15 years

How long with the UK support a welfare province post Brexit? That's exactly how long it will take to get the ball rolling.

James Brown

10-15 years

joseywhales wrote: »

How long with the UK support a welfare province post Brexit? That's exactly how long it will take to get the ball rolling.

They waged a war over Argentinian islands for example, so whatever makes political sense or for good distraction, meaning it is rarely that black and white.

Sinbad_NI

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They waged a war over Argentinian islands for example, so whatever makes political sense or for good distraction, meaning it is rarely that black and white.

The overwhelming vote on the future of the Falklands after the war didn't portray the inhabitants as feeling very Argentinian.

FrancieBrady

The winds of change keep on blowing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/unionists-must-prepare-for-inevitable-border-poll-says-leading-loyalist-1.4097247

Unionism cannot “bury its head in the sand like an ostrich” over the prospect of a border poll, the former UVF commander and Progressive Unionist Party (PUP) leader Billy Hutchinson has suggested.

Mr Hutchinson said political unionism does not even want to discuss the prospect of such a poll, but must do so as one is inevitable in the long term.

Writing in a new book, Laying it on the Line: The Border and Brexit, Mr Hutchinson states: “No unionist is ever going to say that they would support a united Ireland. But I think we need to consider a number of scenarios.

“If it was to happen, what do we want? Nothing concentrates the mind like a hanging, but I don’t think we’ve got there yet. I don’t know when there’ll be a border poll, but the British government can only hold on for so long.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The winds of change keep on blowing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/unionists-must-prepare-for-inevitable-border-poll-says-leading-loyalist-1.4097247

He said that???

Holy fvck

Times are indeed changing.

At least one of the more demented among them sees the lights have changed and time to take a seat at the table or it’ll be all taken out of their hands and dine without them.


If he knows this and has said it, for sure DUP etc know it too

markodaly

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

He said that???

Holy fvck

Times are indeed changing.

At least one of the more demented among them sees the lights have changed and time to take a seat at the table or it’ll be all taken out of their hands and dine without them.


If he knows this and has said it, for sure DUP etc know it too

In fairness the PUP were always a bit more level-headed and open about the issues of Ireland and Unionism. It is a pity that they are not more of a voice along with say the SDLP on the other side. One can see some sort of concensous being talked about.

However, he raises the points I have made a number of times. There will be demands and red lines made by Unionists in exchange for a UI, many of which will be hard to swallow for the Éirígí types.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

In fairness the PUP were always a bit more level-headed and open about the issues of Ireland and Unionism. It is a pity that they are not more of a voice along with say the SDLP on the other side. One can see some sort of concensous being talked about.

However, he raises the points I have made a number of times. There will be demands and red lines made by Unionists in exchange for a UI, many of which will be hard to swallow for the Éirígí types.

There will be no 'red lines' if a majority vote for a UI.

There will be agreement in the shape of a UI based on concensus - nobody will have a red line or a veto.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

markodaly wrote: »

In fairness the PUP were always a bit more level-headed and open about the issues of Ireland and Unionism. It is a pity that they are not more of a voice along with say the SDLP on the other side. One can see some sort of concensous being talked about.

However, he raises the points I have made a number of times. There will be demands and red lines made by Unionists in exchange for a UI, many of which will be hard to swallow for the Éirígí types.

You just conflated the entire population with Éirigí types.

Are you sure you’re tuned into the realties of this discussion and the oncoming debate?

* just so I’m clear. It’ll be ordinary people at the assemblies. And a democratic vote taken afterwards.


And you’re waving Éirigí around.

Really?

maccored

30-40 years

markodaly wrote: »

However, he raises the points I have made a number of times. There will be demands and red lines made by Unionists in exchange for a UI, many of which will be hard to swallow for the Éirígí types.

i thought you said they shouldn't have a veto?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

The lights are changing and even they see it now

https://twitter.com/newtonemerson/status/1200212165925462016?s=21

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

The lights are changing and even they see it now

https://twitter.com/newtonemerson/status/1200212165925462016?s=21

Is he afraid an ordinary unionist citizen might sell the good hen?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is he afraid an ordinary unionist citizen might sell the good hen?

Seen it pointed out in the comments that they want it to be politically ‘lead’ in order to throw a spanner in the works as it’s the only thing they know how to do.

Hard to argue.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

https://twitter.com/think__32/status/1200357825781911554?s=21

statesaver

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Desperate stuff to link couples wanting a house and being denied it as something to do with a UI. How is the 26 county Irish Republic doing for couples who want a house, or even reasonable rents?

The romantic idea lives on despite what the 'I'm alright, Jack' crowd say.

Come on, any increase in tax for a UI will automatically mean less votes in favour.

Voting for less disposable income and the DUP in government, jog on.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

statesaver wrote: »

Come on, any increase in tax for a UI will automatically mean less votes in favour.

Voting for less disposable income and the DUP in government, jog on.

You may need to have some understanding of how elections work. The dup might have at the outmost three seats in a United ireland.
Looks up how many Sinn Fein have currently in the Dáil

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You may need to have some understanding of how elections work. The dup might have at the out most three seats in a United ireland.
Looks up how many Sinn Fein have currently in the Dáil

The same thing that happened after independence here will happen imo. The divisive politics will mellow and become less attractive to voters. If the DUP remain the party of 'NO and Never Never' they will get less and less of the vote as everybody else moves on.

Sinbad_NI

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You may need to have some understanding of how elections work. The dup might have at the outmost three seats in a United ireland.
Looks up how many Sinn Fein have currently in the Dáil

Surely with the proportional representation voting that would give unionist candidates a sizeable number of seats.
Don't see how that would be 3?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Surely with the proportional representation voting that would give unionist candidates a sizeable number of seats.
Don't see how that would be 3?

Aaaaaand once again will point you to the incoming election.

Are you unaware of it?

Almost miss janfebmar and downcow at this stage

Sinbad_NI

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Aaaaaand once again will point you to the incoming election.

Are you unaware of it?

Almost miss janfebmar and downcow at this stage

Aye it'll be 50/50 give it take.
Even when it goes to 55/45 or 60/40 or whatever, under PR the say 40% unionist vote will return roughly that amount of candidates +/-.
How would that be 3?

FrancieBrady

And on it goes.

https://twitter.com/Think32_/status/1201595818802917376/photo/1

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Linky brokey francie?

TheAsYLuMkeY

10-15 years

Nationalist/Republican win more seats than Unionist/Loyalist in Northern Ireland today........who knows

briany

So long as NI remains economically stable, I don't see NI voting to unify with the rest of Ireland. If and when the UK is turned into an economically neo-liberal basketcase and the NHS is dismantled wholesale, then we could definitely see unlikely eyes turn southward (this is obviously dependent on how Ireland and the EU are doing at the time as well). But until that happens, it would be unwise for Sinn Fein to push too hard. They may get their border poll, only to see it fail due to the pragmatic vote.

FrancieBrady

briany wrote: »

So long as NI remains economically stable, I don't see NI voting to unify with the rest of Ireland. If and when the UK is turned into an economically neo-liberal basketcase and the NHS is dismantled wholesale, then we could definitely see unlikely eyes turn southward (this is obviously dependent on how Ireland and the EU are doing at the time as well). But until that happens, it would be unwise for Sinn Fein to push too hard. They may get their border poll, only to see it fail due to the pragmatic vote.

Northern Unionists have shown (by voting for a Shinner and and SDLP candidate) that they can be pragmatic when their future is threatened. They put their future before the 'union' in other words.

Seismic things are happening.

joseywhales

10-15 years

I agree it is down to our economic prosperity and the ending of the welfare state in the north, all they care about is money.