How long before Irish reunification?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think it was SF who introduced and promoted the Shared Education ACT. but there is none so blind as they cannot see any good.

Education is changing in NI, of that there is no doubt. Introducing draconian fascistic controls/demands will drive people into cul de sacs when there is no need to do it. Sectarianism is not widespread in NI and needs targeted solutions not knee jerk, chaotic ones.

Well, that independent report doesn't seem to share your benign view of shared education, and it appears to have had little impact:

"In some cases, shared
education seems to have been set against
integrated education, as an alternative rather
than a complement to integration."

Education is changing in NI is a bit like saying the universe is aging or that glaciers are moving quickly. Change is happening at a rate that will see no noticeable change for 50 years.

Sectarianism isn't only endemic in education, it is also endemic in housing, with segregated housing estates, matched in history only be South Africa.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, that independent report doesn't seem to share your benign view of shared education, and it appears to have had little impact:

"In some cases, shared
education seems to have been set against
integrated education, as an alternative rather
than a complement to integration."

Education is changing in NI is a bit like saying the universe is aging or that glaciers are moving quickly. Change is happening at a rate that will see no noticeable change for 50 years.

Sectarianism isn't only endemic in education, it is also endemic in housing, with segregated housing estates, matched in history only be South Africa.

Shared education and integrated education are happening blanch. There is no appetite for further integration for many and varied reasons. Read the fecking reports.

You would think that NI schools were seething hotbeds of sectarian hate to listen to you.
In fact they are at the forefront of attempting to build cohesive societies, despite many people and parties trying to FORCE through cohesion.

Your dogmatic, 'my way or no way' approach to this is redolent of the Unionist sectarian statlet. Those days of force are gone.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If 'hatred' of a political party could be defined as a type of sectarianism then mark and blanch and a few others could be defined as sectarian in extremis.

If lack of self-awareness could be encaspulated in one post, this is that post. Firstly, you go off on a tirade about other posters, not about what they post. Secondly, you accuse them of a type of sectarianism because the dislike the odious Sinn Fein. Wow, just wow. Were the people in the gulags who hated the Soviet communist party also sectarians in extremis?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the old 'elephant in the room', that there is only two parties (DUP and TUV) that enshrine discrimination and sectarianism in policy.

Then, having defined a new sectarianism as hatred of a political party, you then go on and expand your long-term hatred of the DUP in another direction, yes that DUP, the political party one. Like the hatred of political parties is now sectarianism.

If your post wasn't so dispiriting in the way that it fails to seek the sick nature of the education system in Northern Ireland, it would be laughable.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

If lack of self-awareness could be encaspulated in one post, this is that post. Firstly, you go off on a tirade about other posters, not about what they post. Secondly, you accuse them of a type of sectarianism because the dislike the odious Sinn Fein. Wow, just wow. Were the people in the gulags who hated the Soviet communist party also sectarians in extremis?



Then, having defined a new sectarianism as hatred of a political party, you then go on and expand your long-term hatred of the DUP in another direction, yes that DUP, the political party one. Like the hatred of political parties is now sectarianism.

If your post wasn't so dispiriting in the way that it fails to seek the sick nature of the education system in Northern Ireland, it would be laughable.

I don't hate anybody blanch. I am politically and ideologically opposed to the DUP and TUV. (and BTW elements of SF policy too.)

In your ranting you forget something as well, I have said a number of times now that the education system needs change...I OBJECT to your fascistic methods of FORCING through that change because it will once again throw a society into chaos and division.

James Brown

10-15 years

markodaly wrote: »

The largest net benefactors being the GAA and soccer, not exactly middle-class sports I think.

The main issue here is that people associated with Golf clubs and Tennis clubs may be more clued in, in getting the forms from the relevant departments filled out correctly and making their case, than say a boxing club.

An ignorant and very telling comment.

Good to note that for once it's not decent hard working tax payers being accused of knowing how best to play the system I suppose.

These days 'middle class' means working people.
Does Blanch know how you look down on GAA folk?
"First they came for the nationalists and I did not speak out..." huh Blanch?

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

An ignorant and very telling comment.

Good to note that for once it's not decent hard working tax payers being accused of knowing how best to play the system I suppose.

These days 'middle class' means working people.
Does Blanch know how you look down on GAA folk?
"First they came for the nationalists and I did not speak out..." huh Blanch?

Is that your response? Try and start a row between two other posters?

James Brown

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

Is that your response? Try and start a row between two other posters?

You missed much of it obviously.
See MarkO was suggesting certain people in certain sports would be better equipped, ability wise, to avail of grants and such. The GAA being one of those whose member might not be 'as clued in'. I recalled you were a GAA man is all. If as usual you've no opinion on it, no worries.

jh79

I think boxing is struggling to get funding due to its association with organised crime.

Dunno if any of ye are following the Hutch v Kinnahan thread? Infamous Hutch twitter account with lots of inside info not happy with the Belfast mayor giving Conlan and Barnes lots of PR and claimimg links between SF and the Kinnahans. Janice Boylan is a relative of the Kinnahans.

James Brown

10-15 years

jh79 wrote: »

I think boxing is struggling to get funding due to its association with organised crime.

Dunno if any of ye are following the Hutch v Kinnahan thread? Infamous Hutch twitter account with lots of inside info not happy with the Belfast mayor giving Conlan and Barnes lots of PR and claimimg links between SF and the Kinnahans. Janice Boylan is a relative of the Kinnahans.

The FAI anyway. The OCI seem to be coming out from under.

statesaver

Do not see any benefit of a UI in the short term or long term. Only see a 2% income tax levy to pay for it.

The romantic idea of a 32 county Irish Republic is dead. Most couples want to buy a house and not to pay more tax for a UI.

James Brown

10-15 years

statesaver wrote: »

Do not see any benefit of a UI in the short term or long term. Only see a 2% income tax levy to pay for it.

The romantic idea of a 32 county Irish Republic is dead. Most couples want to buy a house and not to pay more tax for a UI.

Do you have family? How much money do they make you? If it's a loss I expect you'd disown them?

We'll see if we get the opportunity to vote this time around. TBF the just thing to do would be simply to unite the country, but the Unionists are all into 'democracy' now.

statesaver

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Do you have family? How much money do they make you? If it's a loss I expect you'd disown them?

We'll see if we get the opportunity to vote this time around. TBF the just thing to do would be simply to unite the country, but the Unionists are all into 'democracy' now.

The debate around a UI referendum would be externally interesting and maybe even persuasive.

Mr.Nice Guy

10-15 years

statesaver wrote: »

Do not see any benefit of a UI in the short term or long term. Only see a 2% income tax levy to pay for it.

The romantic idea of a 32 county Irish Republic is dead. Most couples want to buy a house and not to pay more tax for a UI.

Desperate stuff to link couples wanting a house and being denied it as something to do with a UI. How is the 26 county Irish Republic doing for couples who want a house, or even reasonable rents?

The romantic idea lives on despite what the 'I'm alright, Jack' crowd say.

FrancieBrady

'Romantic' is another one of those buzz words employed by dyed in the wool partitionists.

Nobody is talking about 'romantic' notions that I can see, in fact they are talking about a challenge to us all. And the dividend or pay off of meeting thaqt challenge is finally putting division and violence behind us.
The 'romantics' are those running about more and more frantically trying to avoid a reality that is coming.

FrancieBrady

Another interesting perspective. I do remember the Unionists panicking during the last Indy ref when it looked like Yes was going to win and heading to Scotland to help the No side.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/25/scotland-election-results-northen-ireland-future-independence-referendum?__twitter_impression=true

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another interesting perspective. I do remember the Unionists panicking during the last Indy ref when it looked like Yes was going to win and heading to Scotland to help the No side.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/25/scotland-election-results-northen-ireland-future-independence-referendum?__twitter_impression=true

This was my own perspective from 2014. And it continues to hold away!

markodaly

Matt Barrett wrote: »

An ignorant and very telling comment.

Good to note that for once it's not decent hard working tax payers being accused of knowing how best to play the system I suppose.

These days 'middle class' means working people.
Does Blanch know how you look down on GAA folk?
"First they came for the nationalists and I did not speak out..." huh Blanch?

Look down on GAA folk? Nice try Matt to derail the thread.

It isnt playing the system, its knowing how to navigate the system and its multiple layers of beuarcarcy. All of it above board and legal.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

This was my own perspective from 2014. And it continues to hold away!

When a border poll comes I sincerely hope that a few Tory peers get on the telly to huff and puff about it in the manner Peter Lilley did about Scottish independence on Newsnight last night.
The almost sneering dismissive attitude he had to it would be worth a million votes to the Yes side.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Blanch and co throughout this thread: you’re deluded! There won’t even be a conversation on a United ireland! Never happen!

Leo: https://twitter.com/darranmarshall/status/1199359653878128645?s=21

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

We should ask, but we shouldn't NOT have one even if they don't want to partake.

The unionist veto can't hold sway over Irish nationalism's desires anymore.

RobMc59

10-15 years

BonnieSituation wrote: »

We should ask, but we shouldn't NOT have one even if they don't want to partake.

The unionist veto can't hold sway over Irish nationalism's desires anymore.

Its not just all about Irish nationalism's desires though,its also about unionist desires too.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Its not just all about Irish nationalism's desires though,its also about unionist desires too.

Yes, but it cannot be about their 'desire' to obstruct a discussion and vote on this.

That is the democratic process they signed up to. It's like the AIA and GFA, engage or everybody else moves on without you and you play catch up.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

I think the point is Rob that that very tiny but vocal element up north who are now threatening violence over brexit which they actually And aggressively backed, and now don’t want, can’t be and won’t be allowed dictate to the majority of normal unionists or people in NI anymore than they’ll be allowed dictate to all of us here. Progress of our nation and NI will not be held up by some low iq little hardmen who fancy themselves as terrorists.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

The likes of this. Have a read of the replies. You’ll see ordinary people have had enough of these clowns threatening them.

https://twitter.com/eastside2020/status/1199430921977499648?s=21

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I think the point is Rob that that very tiny but vocal element up north who are now threatening violence over brexit which they actually And aggressively backed, and now don’t want, can’t be and won’t be allowed dictate to the majority of normal unionists or people in NI anymore than they’ll be allowed dictate to all of us here. Progress of our nation and NI will not be held up by some low iq little hardmen who fancy themselves as terrorists.

No. Rob has previous on this and is saying that we can't do anything unless the unionists agree. That's the essence.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Point stands. A minority won’t be allowed dictate to the far bigger majority

That’s not how democracy works.

Hardline unionism knows it’s day is over and no longer controls. And they fear they’ll be treated the way they treated Catholics. Ie abysmally.

Up to them to engage or be left behind. It’s happening anyways and it’ll happen without them.

No! Never! Never! Just isn’t a viable position anymore. Events will move on with or without them.

trashcan

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'm sure the former Minister, Attorney General, Senator and Party Leader will be absolutely devastated by your critique.

As a grandson of Eoin MacNeill, he's probably spent a bit more time considering this issue than an anonymous shill with nothing better to do than sit on Boards all day.

Over 1,000 posts on this one thread - keep typing lad.

So is Francie spending too much time thinking about it, or not enough ? You seem a bit confused on the point.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I think the point is Rob that that very tiny but vocal element up north who are now threatening violence over brexit which they actually And aggressively backed, and now don’t want, can’t be and won’t be allowed dictate to the majority of normal unionists or people in NI anymore than they’ll be allowed dictate to all of us here. Progress of our nation and NI will not be held up by some low iq little hardmen who fancy themselves as terrorists.

I agree about people threatening violence being wrong but there's nothing wrong with wanting NI to remain in the UK.
I would prefer the UK to continue but obviously if people democratically decide they would prefer a UI then fair enough.

RobMc59

10-15 years

BonnieSituation wrote: »

No. Rob has previous on this and is saying that we can't do anything unless the unionists agree. That's the essence.

I don't think anyone should have a veto but unionists should have input into any discussions regarding a UI.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don't think anyone should have a veto but unionists should have input into any discussions regarding a UI.

Nobody with any serious input into a UI, ever said anything different Rob.

Will they engage and what should happen if they don't, is the question.