Conor McGregor thread (MMA Talk Only - Read 1st Post Before Posting)

Homelander

Tazzimus wrote: »

Think he's more getting at the possible discrepancy between fight night weights. Not everyone puts on the same amount after a weight cut.
Still, I wouldn't imagine the difference was huge, probably a few lbs at most. Poirier has a thicker/stockier torso compared to McGregor, so probably looked a lot bigger because of it.

I wonder would McGregor ever go back to FW. That would be where he can shine best - great punching power, good reach.

It's not as if tonnes of other fighters don't cut like he did.

At LW he just doesn't have the natural size of fighters like Porier and has to kinda bulk up to get there, Dustin has a way more solid core and leaner physique and is still heavier in the octagon on fight night.

It's not as if the extra muscle gives Conor much extra power either. It's like he's in a weird place between 145 and 155.

walshb

Homelander wrote: »

I wonder would McGregor ever go back to FW. That would be where he can shine best - great punching power, good reach.

It's not as if tonnes of other fighters don't cut like he did.
.

Making 145 lbs when aged 24/25/26 is one thing, making it now aged 32/33 after having not been near if for several years, no.....he ain't (consciously) doing it....and if he did, don't at all expect him to be the same fighter he was from 2014 and 2015....he could be even less a 145 lbs fighter than he is at 155

Bodies mature, change, grow even later in life.....as in from your early to mid 20s, to late 20s, early 30s and so on.....

AlmightyCushion

walshb wrote: »

I am aware that most is water

But is 20 or so lbs of water really needed in 30 hours?

Dustin's alleged 28 lbs gain seems a bit ridiculous.....had to be gorging for the sake of it..

I am sure a fair deal of food gorging also happens....

They are hungry and thirsty lads...

No matter what way it is broken down, 20-25 lbs weight gain in 30 hours seems excessive for 155 lbs fighters

It seems like you think they drink loads of water and eat loads of food after weight ins to try and get as big as possible for the fight. That isn't how it works. They aren't gorging in food and water to get as big as possible. They are getting back to their normal weight. They are putting back on all the weight they lost in previous day or so. For example for fight week a fighter might weigh 175. A day or so beforehand the weigh ins, they start cutting weight and get down to 155 for the weigh ins. After the weigh ins they drink a load of water to replace the water they lost and get back up to their normal weight of 175.

AlmightyCushion

Homelander wrote: »

I wonder would McGregor ever go back to FW. That would be where he can shine best - great punching power, good reach.

It's not as if tonnes of other fighters don't cut like he did.

At LW he just doesn't have the natural size of fighters like Porier and has to kinda bulk up to get there, Dustin has a way more solid core and leaner physique and is still heavier in the octagon on fight night.

It's not as if the extra muscle gives Conor much extra power either. It's like he's in a weird place between 145 and 155.

He could go to 145 of he wanted but he would have to drop some muscle to do it.

walshb

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It seems like you think they drink loads of water and eat loads of food after weight ins to try and get as big as possible for the fight. That isn't how it works. They aren't gorging in food and water to get as big as possible. They are getting back to their normal weight. They are putting back on all the weight they lost in previous day or so. For example for fight week a fighter might weigh 175. A day or so beforehand the weigh ins, they start cutting weight and get down to 155 for the weigh ins. After the weigh ins they drink a load of water to replace the water they lost and get back up to their normal weight of 175.

It’s still gorging..

Ingesting a lot of liquids and foods in a short space of time..it’s the short space time that is very unnatural. That large weight gain/regen is down to deliberate loading.

Of course they need to rehydrate...

I am simply saying that at times, they can overdo it, and in doing so, their weight gain may not be an advantage, but a possible disadvantage..

Anyway, as I said it is not an exact science..

I wonder what the ratio of food to liquid ingestion is..

I know personally that I was probably 60-40 water to food weight gain..

AlmightyCushion

walshb wrote: »

It’s still gorging..

Ingesting a lot of liquids and foods in a short space of time..it’s the short space time that is very unnatural. That large weight gain/regen is down to deliberate loading.

Of course they need to rehydrate...

I am simply saying that at times, they can overdo it, and in doing so, their weight gain may not be an advantage, but a possible disadvantage..

Anyway, as I said it is not an exact science..

I wonder what the ratio of food to liquid ingestion is..

I know personally that I was probably 60-40 water to food weight gain..

The extra muscle a big weight cut gives them is a huge advantage though. Obviously it lets you hit harder but apart from that it gives you a big advantage in grappling. Grappling some one with a few kilos extra muscle over you will be very draining for you and not as draining for your opponent.

Physicskid9

walshb wrote: »

It’s still gorging..

Ingesting a lot of liquids and foods in a short space of time..it’s the short space time that is very unnatural. That large weight gain/regen is down to deliberate loading.

Of course they need to rehydrate...

I am simply saying that at times, they can overdo it, and in doing so, their weight gain may not be an advantage, but a possible disadvantage..

Anyway, as I said it is not an exact science..

I wonder what the ratio of food to liquid ingestion is..

I know personally that I was probably 60-40 water to food weight gain..

They have over 24 hours to rehydrate and refuel. Anyone who is disciplined and working with a dietician/nutritionist would not be gorging on foods for the sake of it. I agree there probably is people who over do it and eat what they feel like but I'm sure they are few and far between at the top levels of any sport where weight cutting is common.

walshb

Physicskid9 wrote: »

They have over 24 hours to rehydrate and refuel. Anyone who is disciplined and working with a dietician/nutritionist would not be gorging on foods for the sake of it. I agree there probably is people who over do it and eat what they feel like but I'm sure they are few and far between at the top levels of any sport where weight cutting is common.

Exactly my point.

I would expect the weight gain to be thought out, deliberate and used as the best way to make the fighter as strong as he can be..like a science..

But, of course, there will be ingesting and gorging at times, for the sake of it. They are only human. And very hungry and thirsty..

We have all ingested when we didn’t need to...

I guess a feel good aspect is there as well..

Nobody is telling me that none of them go and do a Roberto Duran on it once in a while..

Tazzimus

Homelander wrote: »

I wonder would McGregor ever go back to FW. That would be where he can shine best - great punching power, good reach.

It's not as if tonnes of other fighters don't cut like he did.

At LW he just doesn't have the natural size of fighters like Porier and has to kinda bulk up to get there, Dustin has a way more solid core and leaner physique and is still heavier in the octagon on fight night.

It's not as if the extra muscle gives Conor much extra power either. It's like he's in a weird place between 145 and 155.

He's never really had to bulk up for LW, considering he used to weigh around 170. He's probably mid 170's now, which is probably what a lot of LW's walk around at. There will of course be the few that cut a larger chunk of weight to get an advantage over the others, Khabib being a prime example.

Physicskid9

walshb wrote: »

Exactly my point.

I would expect the weight gain to be thought out, deliberate and used as the best way to make the fighter as strong as he can be..like a science..

But, of course, there will be ingesting and gorging at times, for the sake of it. They are only human. And very hungry and thirsty..

We have all ingested when we didn’t need to...

I guess a feel good aspect is there as well..

Nobody is telling me that none of them go and do a Roberto Duran on it once in a while..

I doubt there are too many who have the discipline to make it to the top level of that sport and can't avoid binging for the 24 hours prior to a fight. Like you say I'm sure there are some outliers but it absolutely would not be the norm. As you say the point is to rehydrate and replenish glycogen stores fully for the fight, no one wants to enter the cage with a belly full of undigested food or worse, risk eating some novel food that may cause G.I distress right before a fight.

LollipopJimmy

A pal of mine who trained with McGregor in the early days said to me that Conor always struggled getting to 145 however he also struggled to put weight on (obviously without resorting to pizza and beer) Claimed the walking around weight was about 165.

People here always saying he looks huge etc bit don't forget, he's not exactly tall

ginoginelli

Homelander wrote: »

I wonder would McGregor ever go back to FW. That would be where he can shine best - great punching power, good reach.

It's not as if tonnes of other fighters don't cut like he did.

At LW he just doesn't have the natural size of fighters like Porier and has to kinda bulk up to get there, Dustin has a way more solid core and leaner physique and is still heavier in the octagon on fight night.

It's not as if the extra muscle gives Conor much extra power either. It's like he's in a weird place between 145 and 155.

If he had really got on top of his nutrition a few years ago he probably could have stayed there at 145. I'm not sure it would be the best move now though with all that extra muscle.

As you said, hes kind of inbetween weight classes at this stage.

Homelander

Tazzimus wrote: »

He's never really had to bulk up for LW, considering he used to weigh around 170. He's probably mid 170's now, which is probably what a lot of LW's walk around at. There will of course be the few that cut a larger chunk of weight to get an advantage over the others, Khabib being a prime example.

Yeah I do get that, but it's kinda my point also.

LW is closer to his actual natural weight, whereas a lot of other guys at LW are cutting huge amounts of weight for weigh-in and are just naturally bigger guys than he is, leaner and better cores.

A lot of guys at LW have the advantage he had at FW, whereas Conor is fighting at a more normalised weight class.

Don't get me wrong, there are tons like him I agree.

Khabib's a great example of someone who dominates LW with brutal cuts, but would probably find it far more difficult to compete at WW even if it is is more natural weight class for him.

It's very interesting to see fighters who move up and down weight classes and find their grove. It's incredible the amount of fighters who move down thinking they'll dominate only to find the exact opposite, and of course the opposite as well.

yourdeadwright

Homelander wrote: »

Yeah I do get that, but it's kinda my point also.

LW is closer to his actual natural weight, whereas a lot of other guys at LW are cutting huge amounts of weight for weigh-in and are just naturally bigger guys than he is, leaner and better cores.

A lot of guys at LW have the advantage he had at FW, whereas Conor is fighting at a more normalised weight class.

Don't get me wrong, there are tons like him I agree.

Khabib's a great example of someone who dominates LW with brutal cuts, but would probably find it far more difficult to compete at WW even if it is is more natural weight class for him.

It's very interesting to see fighters who move up and down weight classes and find their grove. It's incredible the amount of fighters who move down thinking they'll dominate only to find the exact opposite, and of course the opposite as well.

Spot on here,
Foghters can be very lucky a be to big for one weight amd to small for another,Cowboy, Diaz, RDA come to mind

Conor's early days he was a lucky one as he was a monster at Featherweight and it helped him no end but age just made that to difficult

Then Jon Jones had it the other way where he somehow manged to have a heavy weight frame and lenght but makes LHW

Tazzimus

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Spot on here,
Foghters can be very lucky a be to big for one weight amd to small for another,Cowboy, Diaz, RDA come to mind

Conor's early days he was a lucky one as he was a monster at Featherweight and it helped him no end but age just made that to difficult

Then Jon Jones had it the other way where he somehow manged to have a heavy weight frame and lenght but makes LHW

That's cause Jones has little chicken legs, helped keep him in the LHW class.

derfderf

Tazzimus wrote: »

That's cause Jones has little chicken legs, helped keep him in the LHW class.

Exactly. He's not just called bones because it rhymes.

Cody Garbrandt and Gaethje are two that apparently cut very little weight. Most flyweights weigh in on fight night heavier than Cody does at BW. Frankie was brought up early too, he looked tiny fighting Aldo.

I think people are jumping the gun saying Conor doesn't belong at LW. 3 fights there.
One sensational performance against the then champ. A good performance against Khabib (in comparison to Khabib's other fights). And won the first round vs Dustin. At FW it was all first or second round KOs, besides Max and his granite head. Just because he's not flattening everyone he fights at LW, doesn't mean he doesn't belong there.

Mellor

walshb wrote: »

Take three lads....

Dustin/Conor and Khabib....

They are all very similarly sized and built....

They belong 155-165 type fighter range.....

Khabib does cut a lot, but Conor and Dustin need to as well...

I suppose, in a nutshell, juts because one man fights in a heavier weight class than other does not always mean he is naturally bigger

Khabib and Masvidal, for example: Nobody is telling me that Masvidal is naturally bigger.....both are very close/similar

Conor Fought at 145 and 155
Dustin at 145 and 155
Khabib at 155 and 170
Masvidal at 155 and 170

They may all have been in the 155 at one point. But Conor is top of his range there, where at Khabib and Masvidal are at the bottom on their range there.

Khabib at 155 is the same as Conor at 145. Cutting the most they can and maximizing their size.

walshb wrote: »

I am aware that most is water

But is 20 or so lbs of water really needed in 30 hours?

Dustin's alleged 28 lbs gain seems a bit ridiculous.....had to be gorging for the sake of it..

If the 28 pounds was mostly the water he cut. Then it's not gorging for the sake of it. It's rehydrating to this normal weight.
Any less, and he'd be fighting dehydrated.

walshb wrote: »

I know personally that I was probably 60-40 water to food weight gain..

You were probably cutting very little water, relatively. The more you cut, the more the water ratio goes up. The food element is going to be pretty static, as they refuel after the cut.

UFC / McGregor comment in the times

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/money-talks-as-espn-and-ufc-still-cling-to-toxic-conor-mcgregor-brand-1.4469180

Money talks as ESPN and UFC still cling to toxic Conor McGregor brand


During the build-up to Conor McGregor’s defeat by Dustin Poirier last week, ESPN did its utmost to convince those interested in buying the bout on its pay-per-view platform that the Dubliner was still a man to root for. Aside from nauseating soft-ball interviews, Ariel Helwani, the network’s go-to UFC guy, also described him on another show as “a beacon of light” to the Irish people during the pandemic, an individual dramatically changed by fatherhood. The hard sell of a desperate outfit that has gambled $1.5bn on broadcast rights to the sport. The same old false narrative.

McGregor’s first child was born in May, 2017. Since that landmark event, he has violently attacked a bus full of fellow fighters in Brooklyn, smashed up the mobile phone of a fan outside a hotel in Miami, and punched an old man in the face for refusing a complimentary glass of his gut-rot whiskey. Those civil lawsuits filed in Dublin last week, the ones reported on in such troubling, lurid detail by the New York Times (taking full advantage of America’s less restrictive libel laws), they stem from an incident in 2018. Parenting really did seem to transform him alright.

This kind of shameless guff has been a problem with McGregor and the American media since Fox Sports (then owners of the television rights to the octagon) laughably tried to style him the Irish Muhammad Ali. One fought for civil rights, the other is repeatedly read his Miranda rights.

With too much to lose if even a smidgen of the allegations against him are true, those with a stake in UFC continue to promulgate the myth of the noble, working-class warrior made good, the sharply-dressed version of Notre Dame’s fighting leprechaun made flesh, the darling of all Ireland. Two decades ago, ESPN covered Barry Bonds’ chemically-enhanced assault on baseball’s records book as if the only juice he ever took was with his breakfast in the morning. They have previous for this kind of convenient commercial ignorance.

McGregor is no slouch in trying to control the story either. When he appeared on the Jimmy Fallon Show from Paddy Reilly’s pub in Manhattan a while back, eagle-eyed viewers might have spotted a well-dressed, middle-aged woman lurking in the background. No ordinary customer. That was Karen J Kessler, the leading celebrity crisis manager in America. Initially drafted into the camp following his arrest in Brooklyn, you may have seen her name featuring in his rather corporate response to his most recent legal troubles in Dublin.

Damage control
When you have the most renowned damage control expert in Hollywood on retainer, this may be a sign you have more in common with Johnny Depp than Johnny Sexton. It is also an indicator of a willingness to throw serious money at trying to protect your brand and an awareness of the misbehaviour that requires you to do so. Even if his days as an elite mixed martial artist look numbered, his ability to cash in on his fame remains very much intact, at least until his myopic, sophomoric fan base finally (if ever) take notice of the gravity of the recurring accusations against him.

For now, the Maclifers remain so committed to the cult that AugustMcGregor, his clothing brand, can somehow charge $104 for a hooded sweatshirt bearing an image of his distinctive ring walk called “Billionaire Strut”. Just $20 more gets you “The Whoop Ass” embroidered hoodie. Those wanting to train like their “hero” can also purchase the McGregor FAST app for $99 and soon will be able to splurge on branded protein from that outfit too. And these ancillary enterprises are dwarfed by the immense commercial potential of Proper 12.

All of this explains why so many inexplicably remain in McGregor’s corner when the decent thing to do would be to walk, no, run away. It’s all about money. Always. Dana White has been so tolerant of the, ahem, “incidents” in various countries because UFC doesn’t have anybody else capable of working the talk show circuit, whipping up interest beyond the hardcore support, a necessity for the sport to grow.

Pay-per-view
White knows too that the casual fans will just as easily spend their pay-per-view dollars watching the Irishman don gloves to fight an over the hill Manny Pacquiao or any of the random YouTubers currently polluting boxing rings. These freakshows sell well, his bout with Mayweather drew three times as many buys as his loss to Poirier, and McGregor’s disgusting, extra-curricular antics fit right in with that sordid, ever-expanding corner of the warped sports entertainment universe.

We may also have reached a frightening point as a society where delinquency no longer impacts on popularity or marketability. Mike Tyson, the convicted rapist, became the star of a warm-hearted animated television series in which he solves mysteries a la Scooby Doo. Seventy-four million Americans recently tried to re-elect a president who boasted of sexually assaulting women. Against that background, it’s hardly surprising that plenty are still willing to follow McGregor no matter the noxious trail he constantly leaves in his wake.

“Fame requires every kind of excess,” wrote Don DeLillo in his novel, Great Jones Street. “I mean true fame… this special kind, feeds itself on outrage, on what the counsellors of lesser men would consider bad publicity-hysteria in limousines, knife fights in the audience, bizarre litigation, treachery, pandemonium….”

DeLillo came up with that almost 50 years ago. Saw this coming.

walshb

All that article shows is what we already know. The erosion of standards!

The hypocrisy from White is hilarious tbh

And how long is it since Helwani had any credibility?

walshb

I was reading Bisping's take on Conor

Kind of on the money....

Inactivity not all that good an excuse.....the gas engine rearing its ugly head again

Conor just doesn't like, or react well to in close wrestling. It seems to take a lot out of him

spix

walshb wrote: »

I was reading Bisping's take on Conor

Kind of on the money....

Inactivity not all that good an excuse.....the gas engine rearing its ugly head again

Conor just doesn't like, or react well to in close wrestling. It seems to take a lot out of him

It wasn't the gas engine, few seconds before he got stopped, he threw a few punches and arms didn't seem heavy and didn't have his 'gassed out' face on. His leg was hurt, poirier noticed, then he wilted when poirier started punching him. Instead of trying to fight through it or fighting back, he just gave up and before he was on the canvas he had already quit.


I blame his coaches and sparring partners who are not pushing him enough. Why no clips in the lead up this time, remember when training for Diaz 2 there was loads of sparring clips out, because he was training and sparring hard. All he got out this time was a 3 second clip of landing a few punches, not even sparring inside an octagon. It seems their approach is spar as light as possible, which is understandable, but the guy is barely fighting once a year, he has to spar hard or will be a shock to him when someone trying to take him out in a fight. He clearly had no idea what to do when his leg got hurt, and when he was backed up against the cage. How was he not prepared for either of those circumstances is just unbelievable. Max holloway (who also got his leg destroyed by volkanovski early and got through 5 rounds) can get away with light or no sparring as he has been in so many 5 round wars and fighting much more often.

walshb

spix wrote: »

It wasn't the gas engine, few seconds before he got stopped, he threw a few punches and arms didn't seem heavy and didn't have his 'gassed out' face on. His leg was hurt, poirier noticed, then he wilted when poirier started punching him. Instead of trying to fight through it or fighting back, he just gave up and before he was on the canvas he had already quit.


.

Yes, it did seem like he simply gave up.

But he also looked spent....very tired....

So, Bisping I think is spot on

Round 1 was intense enough

And folks have mentioned that Dustin seemed to be just as tired

But, stamina and conditioning also involves one's ability to get your second wind and recover from a tough exertion. Dustin seemed to recover well.

Conor I don't think recovered enough from round 1....and then round 2 began and the tank was suffering...

spix

walshb wrote: »

Yes, it did seem like he simply gave up.

But he also looked spent....very tired....

So, Bisping I think is spot on

Round 1 was intense enough

And folks have mentioned that Dustin seemed to be just as tired

But, stamina and conditioning also involves one's ability to get your second wind and recover from a tough exertion. Dustin seemed to recover well.

Conor I don't think recovered enough from round 1....and then round 2 began and the tank was suffering...

By Conors standards, he looked very good end of round 1. He was fine endurance wise. 15 seconds before he was stopped he didn't seem any different than the start of the round. Then Poirier landed a kick/punch and saw Conor didn't like that and went after him. Bisping is wrong. Firas Zahabi is right, it was his heart.

walshb

spix wrote: »

By Conors standards, he looked very good end of round 1. He was fine endurance wise. 15 seconds before he was stopped he didn't seem any different than the start of the round. Then Poirier landed a kick/punch and saw Conor didn't like that and went after him. Bisping is wrong. Firas Zahabi is right, it was his heart.

Yes, Firas is right. I read that as well

I think Bisping was a mix of the two really...stamina and heart

I thought he folded very easily....

Yes, easy saying that sitting on a couch, but that is the way it looked.

spix

walshb wrote: »

Yes, Firas is right. I read that as well

I think Bisping was a mix of the two really...stamina and heart

I thought he folded very easily....

Yes, easy saying that sitting on a couch, but that is the way it looked.

Its the truth and his coaches already playing along with the 'dead leg' game is a bit sad.. Coach kavanagh saying he had drop foot on Ariel is completely wrong. Not once did his ankle roll or anything like that. His leg was in pain, his face was getting punched, he quit. If they continue to just pretend they can try defend leg kicks better and win rematch, they have a shock coming. Poirier will have something else too, and it will end up the same, Conor in a situation he isn't prepared for. They need to be honest with him that he quit in there and get back to sparring hard so hes ready for a real fight. Thats if they even really want to win. Conor and his coaches may all be just there to compete and earn money, and are ok with him quitting and avoiding damage.

LollipopJimmy

Defending those kicks would require a complete shift in his style tbh. Checking a low kick from a wide stance would knock you off balance. The other side of the coin is normally you could eat way more low kicks than were landed but the accuracy from Dustin was phenomenal and credit to him for that

spix

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Defending those kicks would require a complete shift in his style tbh. Checking a low kick from a wide stance would knock you off balance. The other side of the coin is normally you could eat way more low kicks than were landed but the accuracy from Dustin was phenomenal and credit to him for that

Doesn't have to defend them per say. Could just find a way to put Dustin off them. Making sure he pays every time he throws them, either with counter or Conor throwing his own calf kick back.

H8GHOTI

I remember watching Bisping vs Silva & the amount of damage he took was unreal. He survived & won the fight.

At the time, I was actually thinking to myself, McGregor wouldn’t come through that kind of adversity. Luckily he was so good most of the time, he was avoiding damage & knocking people out.

At the end of Rd1 against Poirier, he was already limping a bit but didn’t look that tired. I don’t think it was fatigue that lost him the fight either.

Tazzimus

Oblique kicks will stop someone throwing those very quickly, or being checked properly.
Instead he just let him leather his leg til it got to the point of being compromised, which was too late to start doing anything.
His leg did look to buckle once or twice when he was trying to land shots, especially near the finish. Dustin spotted that and circled back out from the fence before starting to unload. He knew at that point Conor was hurt, showed great fight IQ.

Dan Hardy did a nice breakdown of it, those leg kicks were absolutely the reason Dustin was able to out strike him. Only a few landed properly, but they did a ton of damage when they did.