ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

end of the road

biko wrote: »

Maybe I just value Yazidi human rights more.

you may value 1 set of human rights more then others, but ultimately human rights can only be valued equally. where a right is to be removed, generally freedom, it must only be done after due process and on the basis of actual evidence.

biko wrote: »

Or maybe when you join ISIS you kinda give up your rights to return.

ultimately it looks if that is not possible if actually born in a country. even if one has another citizenship as the citizenship of the other country is secondary.

biko wrote: »

Human rights doesn't mean right to return to UK after you have joined their enemies.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights/what-are-human-rights

if born in the uk, whatever about human rights, international law does mean right to return to the uk, where someone is born in the uk and has no other citizenship. if they have another citizenship, then it looks like that being born in the uk still means one has a right to return, as the country of which they have a second citizenship, has a case to not take one in, unlike the country of origin. it is illegal to make someone stateless, this is so we don't end up in a situation where people like this can run free around the world putting everyone at risk. it forces countries to take responsibility for their problem citizens.

Billy86

Danzy wrote: »

Wirral Anti Fascists day out at the range?

Doesn't really tie in well with the narrative some try to push of anyone to the right of Donald Trump being an ISIS sympathiser though, does it?

Grab All Association

What exactly is the media trying to distract us from? It’s a lot bigger than just brexit whatever it is.

Constant deletion and rehashing of the same articles all week about this and now the “momo challenge”.

These people could’ve quietly returned to the UK if they wanted to do so. They may have been questioned by the police but there’d be very little the police could have done to stop them. Do you honestly believe she and others don’t have access to a mobile/satellite phone in that camp?

skooterblue2

Grayson wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/tv/shamima-begum-wirral-shooting-range-14060294





Their inner child has issues.

Oh I see the problem, they need to adjust the windage to the right and increase the elevation but their grouping is fine.

conorhal

joeguevara wrote: »

It’s not banging on about human rights, I would love to forget them sometimes for serious crimes but it has noth8ng to do about what a person did. Then we could torture people for committing sick crimes. It is either an irrevocable right ton citizenship or it’s not. If we can choose irrevocable rights then why have them at all.

I dislike it but it is what it is.

Citizenship granted to a foreign national isn't an irrevocable right we grant though, it's decidedly revocable by laws already on our statute books.

In the case of Alexandr Bekmirzaev, he's a man that arrived here in the 2000's as a 36 yr old adult Belarusian citizen and attained citizenship through a sham marriage to 17 year old waitress.
A man that's spent little more then a decade in this country before heading off in 2013 to fight for the Islamic state.
What exactly do we owe this man?
Certainly not the right to an Irish passport that's for sure, the mere fact that he aquired one under false pretenses alone should be enough to take it off him. Which just goes to show what an absolutely cowardly POS Leo Varadkar really is.

statesaver

conorhal wrote: »

Citizenship granted to a foreign national isn't an irrevocable right we grant though, it's decidedly revocable by laws already on our statute books.

In the case of Alexandr Bekmirzaev, he's a man that arrived here in the 2000's as a 36 yr old adult Belarusian citizen and attained citizenship through a sham marriage to 17 year old waitress.
A man that's spent little more then a decade in this country before heading off in 2013 to fight for the Islamic state.
What exactly do we owe this man?
Certainly not the right to an Irish passport that's for sure, the mere fact that he aquired one under false pretenses alone should be enough to take it off him. Which just goes to show what an absolutely cowardly POS Leo Varadkar really is.

Has the government investigated this sham marriage ? Probably not, the useless cúnts.
This country really is a soft touch.

conorhal

statesaver wrote: »

Has the government investigated this sham marriage ? Probably not, the useless cúnts.
This country really is a soft touch.

Here's the interview with his 'wife'.
https://www.herald.ie/news/our-3k-sham-marriage-was-stupid-and-childish-says-exwife-of-is-suspect-37707512.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/more-than-1-000-marriages-in-republic-confirmed-as-illegal-1.3536635
In this article about a thousand sham marriages that were investigated last year, it indicates that the investigations into them resulted in the following:

"Many of the “grooms” have remained and are now having their bogus marriages cancelled, their permission to remain in the State revoked and their deportations readied."

Well if we can do that for your common or garden language student eager to overstay their visa...... why the hell can't we do the same for a F!£%*'N TERRORIST?

I despair, I really do.

Tea drinker

conorhal wrote: »

Here's the interview with his 'wife'.
https://www.herald.ie/news/our-3k-sham-marriage-was-stupid-and-childish-says-exwife-of-is-suspect-37707512.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/more-than-1-000-marriages-in-republic-confirmed-as-illegal-1.3536635
In this article about a thousand sham marriages that were investigated last year, it indicates that the investigations into them resulted in the following:

"Many of the “grooms” have remained and are now having their bogus marriages cancelled, their permission to remain in the State revoked and their deportations readied."

Well if we can do that for your common or garden language student eager to overstay their visa...... why the hell can't we do the same for a F!£%*'N TERRORIST?

I despair, I really do.

Students are easy, ejecting ISIS is high profile work and potentially some perverted virtue signaller may present with symptoms of mental illness.
Actual protection of the citizens of Ireland is work that's best avoided. In fact just import as many ISIS sympathisers to show how "down with it" we are

Kivaro

conorhal wrote: »

Here's the interview with his 'wife'.
https://www.herald.ie/news/our-3k-sham-marriage-was-stupid-and-childish-says-exwife-of-is-suspect-37707512.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/more-than-1-000-marriages-in-republic-confirmed-as-illegal-1.3536635
In this article about a thousand sham marriages that were investigated last year, it indicates that the investigations into them resulted in the following:

"Many of the “grooms” have remained and are now having their bogus marriages cancelled, their permission to remain in the State revoked and their deportations readied."

Well if we can do that for your common or garden language student eager to overstay their visa...... why the hell can't we do the same for a F!£%*'N TERRORIST?

I despair, I really do.

Optics, my good man.
It's all about optics with Leo; irrespective of the greater good.

statesaver

Fine Gael, once the party of Law and order now the party of virtue signaling.

Disgraceful.

tretorn

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-councillor-sorry-after-jihadi-bride-joke-sparks-hate-speech-row-37849193.html

I burst out laughing at this.

Who does Ms Migrant know all think she is telling us we shouldnt laugh, its very funny.

tretorn

end of the road wrote: »

you may value 1 set of human rights more then others, but ultimately human rights can only be valued equally. where a right is to be removed, generally freedom, it must only be done after due process and on the basis of actual evidence.



ultimately it looks if that is not possible if actually born in a country. even if one has another citizenship as the citizenship of the other country is secondary.



if born in the uk, whatever about human rights, international law does mean right to return to the uk, where someone is born in the uk and has no other citizenship. if they have another citizenship, then it looks like that being born in the uk still means one has a right to return, as the country of which they have a second citizenship, has a case to not take one in, unlike the country of origin. it is illegal to make someone stateless, this is so we don't end up in a situation where people like this can run free around the world putting everyone at risk. it forces countries to take responsibility for their problem citizens.

They cant run anywhere without a passport so just let them rot in the camp in Syria, for a few months at least anyway.

Begum could hand her child over to her family but she knows without him as a bargaining tool no one but her family care where she ends up.

If they do come back make sure they are never issued with a passport of a driving licence again. Have their mugs put up in every truck hire place so they wont be able to hire trucks to drive into crowds, Make them sign on every single week and require permission to travel within the country. Force them into some sort of training/education and dont just let them sit on the dole talking about how oppressed they are to other losers.

Boggles

tretorn wrote: »

They cant run anywhere without a passport so just let them rot in the camp in Syria, for a few months at least anyway.

Well, that's not true.

tretorn wrote: »

Begum could hand her child over to her family but she knows without him as a bargaining tool no one but her family care where she ends up.

That's not true either, there would be many counter terrorist agencies that would care where she ends up or what she may get up to, it would just be harder.

Again she was groomed and radicalized by someone in Syria.

tretorn wrote: »

If they do come back make sure they are never issued with a passport of a driving licence again. Have their mugs put up in every truck hire place so they wont be able to hire trucks to drive into crowds, Make them sign on every single week and require permission to travel within the country. Force them into some sort of training/education and dont just let them sit on the dole talking about how oppressed they are to other losers.

Do you need a license to steal a truck?

conorhal

conorhal wrote: »

Citizenship granted to a foreign national isn't an irrevocable right we grant though, it's decidedly revocable by laws already on our statute books.

We the people get to set those laws and if a democracy wanted to put these people on trail, jail these guys for life, execute them or make them stateless -i.e effectively kicking them out of our club then we can do it.

tretorn

tretorn wrote: »

They cant run anywhere without a passport so just let them rot in the camp in Syria, for a few months at least anyway.

and this is the flaw in revoking citizenship. Lots of refugees/migrants/whatever you want to call turn up with zero documentation. They are given documents

“Refugees and stateless persons very often do not have access to the national passports that most of us take for granted,” explained Caroline Dulin Brass, a Senior Legal Officer with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). “For these reasons, refugees and stateless persons rely on their host State – the State that they are staying in – for travel documents. The 1951 Refugee Convention and the 1954 Statelessness Convention recognized this dilemma, and gave refugees and stateless persons the right to a Convention Travel Document (named after the Conventions that granted this right) in their State of lawful stay.”

https://www.unitingaviation.com/strategic-objective/general-interest/refugees-and-stateless-persons-without-passports/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Convention_travel_document

There is how we ended up with suspiciously old looking children migrating to Europe. You can be anyone without proof.

Two-thirds of child refugees screened by officials found to be adults, Home Office figures show

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/18/two-thirds-of-child-refugees-entering-uk-found-to-be-adults-figu/

The best option would have been to have gone WW2 on ISIS. Dresden like carpet fire bombing. Not a single one should have gotten away. I`d argue that the world or the western world doesnt have the stomach for whats needed.

They should be jailed for life, preferably with many executed in a Nuremberg type trial for war crimes. Or take the Kurds word for it and save money on trials and straight up dump them in the sea. Dangerous deluded 'do-gooders' should be given the option of accompanying them or moving to Saudi Arabia if they`d take em.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

The best option would have been to have gone WW2 on ISIS. Dresden like carpet fire bombing. Not a single one should have gotten away. I`d argue that the world or the western world doesnt have the stomach for whats needed.
.

Absolute dribble.

Dresden is a city, about 300 square kilometers.

The size of the ISIS controlled area at it's peak was about 250,000 square kilometers, roughly the size of the UK, it contained between 8 and 10 million people.

The Western World don't have the stomach to do something like that because it is unpractically daft beyond stupidity. That's before you even consider the slaughter of millions of innocents.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Absolute dribble.

Dresden is a city, about 300 square kilometers.

The size of the ISIS controlled area at it's peak was about 250,000 square kilometers, roughly the size of the UK, it contained between 8 and 10 million people.

The Western World don't have the stomach to do something like that because it is unpractically daft beyond stupidity. That's before you even consider the slaughter of millions of innocents.

I think he's referring to the tiny pocket of last resistance.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

I think he's referring to the tiny pocket of last resistance.

No he wasn't.

Deleted User wrote: »

The best option would have been to have gone WW2 on ISIS. Dresden like carpet fire bombing. Not a single one should have gotten away. I`d argue that the world or the western world doesnt have the stomach for whats needed.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

We the people get to set those laws and if a democracy wanted to put these people on trail, jail these guys for life, execute them or make them stateless -i.e effectively kicking them out of our club then we can do it.

we can't make them stateless under international law. the death penalty is prohibited within the EU as far as i understand. rightly so to both. jailing people for life we can absolutely do.

jay0109

end of the road wrote: »

we can't make them stateless under international law. the death penalty is prohibited within the EU as far as i understand. rightly so to both. jailing people for life we can absolutely do.

We don't even jail convicted murderers for life in this country...Joe O'Reilly who got life in 2007 for murdering his wife is up for a parole hearing next month.

Who are you trying to cod

end of the road

jay0109 wrote: »

We don't even jail convicted murderers for life in this country...Joe O'Reilly who got life in 2007 for murdering his wife is up for a parole hearing next month.

Who are you trying to cod

i'd very much imagine parole can be rejected if it is deemed someone is either a continuing threat or poses a potential threat to society. i would be shocked and surprised if that isn't the case.

skooterblue2

end of the road wrote: »

we can't make them stateless under international law. the death penalty is prohibited within the EU as far as i understand. rightly so to both. jailing people for life we can absolutely do.

You do realise it cost a fortune to keep people in jail. Strip em of their passport and citizenship and that is far more cost effective. Oh and stamp their passport Not Valid for Europe.

Boggles

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You do realise it cost a fortune to keep people in jail. Strip em of their passport and citizenship and that is far more cost effective. Oh and stamp their passport Not Valid for Europe.

Seems legit.

donkeykong5

Boggles wrote: »

Kivaro wrote: »

arrival.

I am so fed with this liberal government, and will vote accordingly when the time comes.

Tommy Robinson?

Of course!

end of the road

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You do realise it cost a fortune to keep people in jail.

i don't know if it costs a fortune, but i do know that it certainly does cost. i also know that it is a cost that is worth it for the security of society.

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Strip em of their passport and citizenship and that is far more cost effective. Oh and stamp their passport Not Valid for Europe.

making them stateless is illegal. whether it's more cost effective or not is irrelevant.

skooterblue2

end of the road wrote: »

i don't know if it costs a fortune, but i do know that it certainly does cost. i also know that it is a cost that is worth it for the security of society.



making them stateless is illegal. whether it's more cost effective or not is irrelevant.

It costed about 200,000 a few years back between wages, insurance, legal costs and what not.
Why is it illegal to make someone stateless? If you are trying to usurp the state you better expect a serious amount of grief.

skooterblue2

Boggles wrote: »

Seems legit.

Sure Mercenaries in Africa can get their passport stamped NVA. Its a real thing and it happened to Col. Mike Hoare in the Seychelles, when the coup went sour.

GinAndBitter

Brief discussion on potentially allowing ISIS jihadis to return to Ireland.

For once I agree with Ivan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPj9R_wRIdM

old_aussie

meanwhile some good news...…..

So there is Honour Among islamic Terrorists.

Terrified Shamima Begum and her baby yesterday fled their refugee camp in Syria after receiving death threats.

The IS bride was bundled away to another squalid base after a price was put on her head.

Other jihadi wives believe she has disgraced their cause by bleating about her plight - and they have vowed to kill her.

https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/shamima-begum-flees-syrian-refugee-camp-after-is-brides-issue-death-threats/news-story/cd618f31cfc085aa4a00b4e2e4b75329

Boggles

"Good news" a baby could have been killed?

:rolleyes: