Good article detailing Dublin's unfair funding advantage

doc_17

Powerhouse wrote: »

So there’s a limit to spending irrespective of how far you go in the championship, whether you are knocked out in the first round of the qualifiers in June or are still involved in maybe an All Ireland final replay in September? Not sure you’ve thought through the full implications of such a blunt instrument.

Also doesn’t work when some teams are paying more of their available money on player travel expenses as a majority of their players are based in Dublin or Galway for work and college.

Happyilylost

ToBeFrank123 wrote:

Which proves younger players are turning away from football and towards hurling where there is actually a level playing field and one county has not been singled out for special treatment and extra resources by the GAA.

I could laugh all day at this! Kids don't get a f**k about Dublin footballers. They play anything. No kid looks at a hurl or a football at 9 or 10 and goes ah no I'll go with hurling I've better chance of winning an All Ireland in 15 years time. What horse s***e What was failed to mention by Threeball was nine of the players also played football for Galway but unfortunately it was decided by the Galway minor manager that they could not dual. Which was hard on the lads and ever harder on the footballers who probably would of won an All Ireland if they had been allowed. Four of the Galway football team lost out on a Hurling All Ireland as they couldn't play either.

threeball

Happyilylost wrote: »

I could laugh all day at this! Kids don't get a f**k about Dublin footballers. They play anything. No kid looks at a hurl or a football at 9 or 10 and goes ah no I'll go with hurling I've better chance of winning an All Ireland in 15 years time. What horse s***e What was failed to mention by Threeball was nine of the players also played football for Galway but unfortunately it was decided by the Galway minor manager that they could not dual. Which was hard on the lads and ever harder on the footballers who probably would of won an All Ireland if they had been allowed. Four of the Galway football team lost out on a Hurling All Ireland as they couldn't play either.

Kids don't give a fcuk but their auld fella generally does and if dad's interest wanes and turns elsewhere that's where the kids end up. That's why you generally see Rugby families, gaa families, soccer families but the lines are blurring as more people lose interest and go elsewhere

nice_guy80

Bonniedog wrote: »

You don't really like Dublin at all do you Frank?

On another thread you are an advocate of building multiple high rises around the city to accommodate presumably the hundreds of thousands more immigrants planned for in Project 2040.

So, in about 50 years time your hated Dubs will have ceased to exist other than as a minority in their own city.

Meanwhile rural Ireland will be drained of its young who will continue to emigrate in large numbers, one of the consequences being the loss of players for the GAA.

You don't reallydo "joined up thinking", do you?

Tabloid ephemera.

plenty of Dubs need housing too
and yes, there is a need for higher buildings to improve population density

however, this is a GAA forum

the GAA over funding Dublin ahead of rural GAA counties/clubs isn't helping the drain to the east region

ToBeFrank123

Perifect wrote: »

What has rugby go to do with this? Lowering attendances affect all counties in the GAA. It's gone from sell outs every year to half full. If the trend continues (and there's no reason to suggest that it won't), then the revenue lost will be huge.

The only way to make the GAA sit up and notice is to hit them in the pocket. If people stop going to games, then maybe they will take the issue seriously.

Since we are speaking of other sports, the FIA give huge subsidies and cash to Ferrari so they compete in Formula 1. Its a similar situation to Dublin. The GAA feel they need Dublin to go a long way in the championship and have decided to do everything in their power to facilitate this year in year out.

Its no longer a sport, its a business. The administrators of the GAA don't care about skill or great games. They care about profit and loss and finances and numbers on a page. Sad really a once great sport has been reduced to that.

But the only way to change the mindset of Soccer and GAA admins is to hit them in the pocket. That's what done for Martin O'Neill as Ireland manager.

Perifect

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The only way to make the GAA sit up and notice is to hit them in the pocket. If people stop going to games, then maybe they will take the issue seriously.

Since we are speaking of other sports, the FIA give huge subsidies and cash to Ferrari so they compete in Formula 1. Its a similar situation to Dublin. The GAA feel they need Dublin to go a long way in the championship and have decided to do everything in their power to facilitate this year in year out.

Its no longer a sport, its a business. The administrators of the GAA don't care about skill or great games. They care about profit and loss and finances and numbers on a page. Sad really a once great sport has been reduced to that.

But the only way to change the mindset of Soccer and GAA admins is to hit them in the pocket. That's what done for Martin O'Neill as Ireland manager.

You've got to seriously ask, what's the point? What's the point in paying money to follow any county in the championship when this is going on? Even Dublin supporters have stopped going to matches. Who wants this? The article used the term financial doping and it really does seem like a form of doping. It's a different sport but it's like Man city paying extreme amounts to buy players and then they won loads. The differences are that soccer is a professional sport and to mirror what happened with Dublin, the premier league would have had to give them their resources.

gaffer91

Perifect wrote: »

You've got to seriously ask, what's the point? What's the point in paying money to follow any county in the championship when this is going on? Even Dublin supporters have stopped going to matches. Who wants this? The article used the term financial doping and it really does seem like a form of doping. It's a different sport but it's like Man city paying extreme amounts to buy players and then they won loads. The differences are that soccer is a professional sport and to mirror what happened with Dublin, the premier league would have had to give them their resources.

A lot of fans (and players) have reached similar conclusions to you i.e that the expense of supporting (and playing) outweighs the benefits, and they're voting with their feet already. This is only likely to get worse as the years go by and Dublin rack up ever more titles.

The only people who appear to want this state of affairs to continue are GAA top brass who, for now, continue to believe that what's good for Dublin is good for the game. And Dublin supporters who are so biased that sometimes they'll try to contest the funding gap exists at all, and if it does, sure it makes no difference anyway. What both sets don't seem to realise or care about is that the longer this goes on the more damage that's done to the game.

clint_silver

gaffer91 wrote: »

A lot of fans (and players) have reached similar conclusions to you i.e that the expense of supporting (and playing) outweighs the benefits, and they're voting with their feet already. This is only likely to get worse as the years go by and Dublin rack up ever more titles.

The only people who appear to want this state of affairs to continue are GAA top brass who, for now, continue to believe that what's good for Dublin is good for the game. And Dublin supporters who are so biased that sometimes they'll try to contest the funding gap exists at all, and if it does, sure it makes no difference anyway. What both sets don't seem to realise or care about is that the longer this goes on the more damage that's done to the game.

Ticket sales arent the real money.

The real money is in a GPO going into a school and getting a kid interested in the sport.

The child dictates what sport he wants to play. Theres no such thing as an enthusiastic helper any more, you HAVE to have a coaching badge if youre going to mentor kids. And for every team theres not just 1 mentor but 3 and 4 and theyve got level 1 and 2 badges, paid for by the GAA.

The real money is in club membership and affiliation fees. Team jerseys. Tracksuits. If money is all youre interested in.

As per my post earlier theres 100,000 new members waiting to be attracted to the game in Dublin. Theres probably 100,000 at most throughout the rest of the country combined.

Dont think of it in terms of counties or intercounty games, think of it in terms of new members on the ground and the growth and sustainability at that level.

Thats what the GAA is doing.

ArielAtom

So, question to the lads n lassies enjoying pointing out the imbalance in finances. You really are doinf a disservice to the hundreds of volunteers in Dublin who give up free of charge (like the rest of the country) to coach kids from 5 through to minor. You'd swear we are all on 100k a year listening to the whinging and bitching. It is still voluntary!!!!!!!

clint_silver

ArielAtom wrote: »

So, question to the lads n lassies enjoying pointing out the imbalance in finances. You really are doinf a disservice to the hundreds of volunteers in Dublin who give up free of charge (like the rest of the country) to coach kids from 5 through to minor. You'd swear we are all on 100k a year listening to the whinging and bitching. It is still voluntary!!!!!!!

I dont think theyre complaining about that. They see the astros, and the GPOs for most clubs, and the lights and the training courses and the figures of millions being provided for all of that when some clubs outside dublin have the mantra that they use one ball for training and theyve never lost it.

volunteers are taken for granted everywhere.

gaffer91

clint_silver wrote: »

Ticket sales arent the real money.

The real money is in a GPO going into a school and getting a kid interested in the sport.

The child dictates what sport he wants to play. Theres no such thing as an enthusiastic helper any more, you HAVE to have a coaching badge if youre going to mentor kids. And for every team theres not just 1 mentor but 3 and 4 and theyve got level 1 and 2 badges, paid for by the GAA.

The real money is in club membership and affiliation fees. Team jerseys. Tracksuits. If money is all youre interested in.

I didn't mention money at all in that post.

clint_silver wrote: »

As per my post earlier theres 100,000 new members waiting to be attracted to the game in Dublin. Theres probably 100,000 at most throughout the rest of the country combined.

Dont think of it in terms of counties or intercounty games, think of it in terms of new members on the ground and the growth and sustainability at that level.

Thats what the GAA is doing.

So you're saying all the extra funding will help the GA, but only in Dublin. Wow, ground- breaking stuff, the last 17 pages have truly not been wasted on you.

They could well lose >100,000 members if people became apathetic in other counties owing to Dublin dominance.

It's healthier for the game if there's a more competitive All- Ireland series.

ArielAtom wrote: »

So, question to the lads n lassies enjoying pointing out the imbalance in finances. You really are doinf a disservice to the hundreds of volunteers in Dublin who give up free of charge (like the rest of the country) to coach kids from 5 through to minor. You'd swear we are all on 100k a year listening to the whinging and bitching. It is still voluntary!!!!!!!

Another classic- assuming things par for the course in every county are exclusive to Dublin. Every county has volunteers.

The fact there are volunteers helping the GAA in Dublin, like there are in every county, does not excuse the massive funding advantage they have.

clint_silver

gaffer91 wrote: »

I didn't mention money at all in that post.



So you're saying all the extra funding will help the GA, but only in Dublin. Wow, ground- breaking stuff, the last 17 pages have truly not been wasted on you.

They could well lose >100,000 members if people became apathetic in other counties owing to Dublin dominance.

It's healthier for the game if there's a more competitive All- Ireland series.

.

If theres 100,000 extra members in the association, it will be stronger. No change of the % dropping off. Population of Ireland heading for 6 million. what will it be in 10-20-50 years from now. Sow the seeds now.

Will Dublin be stronger as a county team? well probably as theres more chance of cream rising to the top and being better coached. However youre still waiting for a superstar to gel them, not to say Dublin arent a great team for they are, but theyre visibly weakened without Ciaran Kilkenny for example. Last weeks kerry game an example. And kerry were missing a few too. They wont always have a Kilkenny. The Dublin juggernaut isnt what you think it is.

The bigger answer outside the top 4-6 teams may be a second tier championship.

Hurling has it, camogie and ladies have multiple. It works in all of those yet noones talking about the demise there, all 3 codes are thriving. LGFA fastest growing womens sport in the world.

clint_silver

gaffer91 wrote: »

I didn't mention money at all in that post.



So you're saying all the extra funding will help the GA, but only in Dublin. Wow, ground- breaking stuff, the last 17 pages have truly not been wasted on you.

They could well lose >100,000 members if people became apathetic in other counties owing to Dublin dominance.

It's healthier for the game if there's a more competitive All- Ireland series.



Another classic- assuming things par for the course in every county are exclusive to Dublin. Every county has volunteers.

The fact there are volunteers helping the GAA in Dublin, like there are in every county, does not excuse the massive funding advantage they have.

Sorry, meant to say I wouldnt disagree that Dublin may get far superior over next few years however thats a different argument to targetting growth in the game. If they need to come to a compromise if Dublin wins 8-10 championships in a row then they can revisit that conundrum separately.

However noone was talking about unfairness in hurling when kilkenny were winning 10-11 championships in 15 years or whatever it was.

Just wait and see...

nice_guy80

ArielAtom wrote: »

So, question to the lads n lassies enjoying pointing out the imbalance in finances. You really are doinf a disservice to the hundreds of volunteers in Dublin who give up free of charge (like the rest of the country) to coach kids from 5 through to minor. You'd swear we are all on 100k a year listening to the whinging and bitching. It is still voluntary!!!!!!!

Nobody is taking volunteers for granted.
Club volunteers down here have to go into the local schools providing coaching as the school only gets 6 hours per year off the full time county board coach. That is it.
Club volunteers have to go in and recruit new players and make sure they are retained up to U12 and beyond.

gaffer91

clint_silver wrote: »

If theres 100,000 extra members in the association, it will be stronger. No change of the % dropping off. Population of Ireland heading for 6 million. what will it be in 10-20-50 years from now. Sow the seeds now.

What if there's a short term increase in one county and then a significant drop off, over a few more years, elsewhere? Then there's a net loss.

clint_silver wrote: »

If theres 100,000 extra members in the association, it will be stronger. No change of the % dropping off. Population of Ireland heading for 6 million. what will it be in 10-20-50 years from now. Sow the seeds now.

Will Dublin be stronger as a county team? well probably as theres more chance of cream rising to the top and being better coached. However youre still waiting for a superstar to gel them, not to say Dublin arent a great team for they are, but theyre visibly weakened without Ciaran Kilkenny for example. Last weeks kerry game an example. And kerry were missing a few too. They wont always have a Kilkenny. The Dublin juggernaut isnt what you think it is.

Nonsense- they've won 4 all- Irelands on the trot and have ruined the Leinster championship as a competitive event. There are new players being blooded every year. They won All- Irelands without Connolly and McCaffrey, two of the best players in recent years. The juggernaut is exactly what people think it is.

clint_silver wrote: »

Sorry, meant to say I wouldnt disagree that Dublin may get far superior over next few years however thats a different argument to targetting growth in the game. If they need to come to a compromise if Dublin wins 8-10 championships in a row then they can revisit that conundrum separately.

However noone was talking about unfairness in hurling when kilkenny were winning 10-11 championships in 15 years or whatever it was.

Just wait and see...

"What about Kilkenny" argument yet again. Laughable.

It has been explained many times in this thread alone why there are differences between Kilkenny's success and Dublin's success. Purely in the context of this thread (which is about Dublin's unfair funding advantage), for one thing, Kilkenny were never over- funded compared to everyone else like Dublin have been and are.

The_Honeybadger

clint_silver wrote: »

If theres 100,000 extra members in the association, it will be stronger. No change of the % dropping off. Population of Ireland heading for 6 million. what will it be in 10-20-50 years from now. Sow the seeds now.

Will Dublin be stronger as a county team? well probably as theres more chance of cream rising to the top and being better coached. However youre still waiting for a superstar to gel them, not to say Dublin arent a great team for they are, but theyre visibly weakened without Ciaran Kilkenny for example. Last weeks kerry game an example. And kerry were missing a few too. They wont always have a Kilkenny. The Dublin juggernaut isnt what you think it is.

The bigger answer outside the top 4-6 teams may be a second tier championship.

Hurling has it, camogie and ladies have multiple. It works in all of those yet noones talking about the demise there, all 3 codes are thriving. LGFA fastest growing womens sport in the world.

That’s a fair enough argument the money needs to go where the population is. I would argue though that if you are continuously going to pump that much money in to an area the size of Dublin then there will always be a Fenton or a Kilkenny coming through. Howard looks like he could be on that level for example.

The big question then is whether it is sustainable for Dublin to field a single team in the inter county competitions. They could easily field two if not three competitive teams now, and the game is getting stronger.

threeball

clint_silver wrote: »

If theres 100,000 extra members in the association, it will be stronger. No change of the % dropping off. Population of Ireland heading for 6 million. what will it be in 10-20-50 years from now. Sow the seeds now.

Will Dublin be stronger as a county team? well probably as theres more chance of cream rising to the top and being better coached. However youre still waiting for a superstar to gel them, not to say Dublin arent a great team for they are, but theyre visibly weakened without Ciaran Kilkenny for example. Last weeks kerry game an example. And kerry were missing a few too. They wont always have a Kilkenny. The Dublin juggernaut isnt what you think it is.

The bigger answer outside the top 4-6 teams may be a second tier championship.

Hurling has it, camogie and ladies have multiple. It works in all of those yet noones talking about the demise there, all 3 codes are thriving. LGFA fastest growing womens sport in the world.

Numbers don't make a sport healthy, competition does. No point in having half a million people playing GAA in Dublin when theres no one to play against. Other counties will just ditch IC in favour of club, a competition by the way Dublin clubs rarely win as its not a competition loaded with elite players given all the facilities of a top end professional from the time they're 17 and can use their fitness to literally burn off the opposition.

EICVD

Perifect wrote: »

McKenna wrote the article that this thread is about? If so then he is 100% correct, nothing to argue about.

Look at it Twitter & replies, every time someone challenges his point with facts he doesn’t reply, & he’s well able to reply to most

nice_guy80

EICVD wrote: »

Look at it Twitter & replies, every time someone challenges his point with facts he doesn’t reply, & he’s well able to reply to most

what facts?

EICVD

nice_guy80 wrote: »

what facts?

Calm down there Ewan. I never confessed to challenging your points, everything you write is BS to me. Can be a better sports journalist myself if I tried.

nice_guy80

EICVD wrote: »

Calm down there Ewan. I never confessed to challenging your points, everything you write is BS to me. Can be a better sports journalist myself if I tried.

Ok then.
I must have taken up journalism in my spare time, unbeknownst to myself

Perifect

EICVD wrote: »

Calm down there Ewan. I never confessed to challenging your points, everything you write is BS to me. Can be a better sports journalist myself if I tried.

So you can't argue against his points is what you're saying.

Perifect

Has anyone seen this? [URL="file:///C:/Users/DELL/Downloads/Annual%20Accounts%202016.pdf"]file:///C:/Users/DELL/Downloads/Annual%20Accounts%202016.pdf[/URL]

It's the actual Dublin county board accounts apparently. A lot of money involved there obviously, I need to look at it closer to see where the money is going. Does anyone have other accounts to compare it with?

Stoner

Perifect wrote:

Has anyone seen this?

Yes, I saw them. A user with a reregistration account had them in a thread or two across a couple of user names here before.

Have a look back using the search facility, you might get some information there.

Perifect

Stoner wrote: »

Yes, I saw them. A user with a reregistration account had them in a thread or two across a couple of user names here before.

Have a look back using the search facility, you might get some information there.

Wow! Yes, a lot of information. I searched those accounts and two threads came up. One 12 pages long and the other 115 pages long.

Bonniedog

We are going to have to kill you now.

You know too much.

Nothing personal :-)

Perifect

Bonniedog wrote: »

We are going to have to kill you now.

You know too much.

Nothing personal :-)

I'm not reading all of that, can you give me the gist?

Bonniedog

George Soros, Elders of Zion, Saudi Princes, ….

Perifect

Looking at the Dublin accounts, it says commercial income is of 1.5 million. Then it says other income of just under 1.5 million. Anyone know what that is? Then team administration expenses of 1.5 million. These are probably easily explainable, I just don't know what they are. Then below that there sponsorship of another 1.5 million. I know where that's coming from obviously. Then down further, there's income of 2.7 million from strategic review committee. Out of that, wages are 2.1 million. Who's wages are those, the chairman and the rest of the county board? Sorry, I'm probably being silly it's just I don't know much about GAA accounts.

Perifect

Ok, I think I've solved something, not sure. I was wondering was the Irish Sports Council grant of 1 million paid on top of the money Dublin get from the GAA. Well if you look at the Dublin accounts, under the strategic review committee part which I mentioned in the last post, you see 2.7 million. That was for 2016. Didn't the GAA pay about 1.4 million in 2016? Add on the 1 million from the sports council and it's up to 2.4 million. Then earlier I posted about the Leinster council having a thing called "Dublin coaching project" on their accounts. This was always between 200,000 and 300,000. So if you add that on to the 2.4 million you get 2.7 million. Am I right with this? If I am then it's much higher than the 18 million they were mentioning in the article. If we say it was 2.5 million since 2005, that's 35 million if you include this year. That's a crazy amount of money. Am I missing something?