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Good article detailing Dublin's unfair funding advantage

  • 11-02-2019 2:27pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭ gaffer91


    AAnother good article detailing Dublin's financial advantages and the inherent unfairness of them.

    The author is Ewan MacKenna once again- I'm aware people don't like him because he is of one of the few voices in the sports media who consistently calls out the Dubs and their unfair advantages (and because he can be quite combative generally), but please actually address the points he makes in the article rather than attacking his other work.

    This funding imbalance has to be addressed- if Dublin continue to dominate, people will lose interest in Gaelic Football. The decline has probably already started- the attendance decline noted last week is ominous.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,800 ✭✭✭ Mr. Incognito


    Every intercounty team should have a budget ceiling.

    Dublin's players have a huge backroom team and access to a whole team of professionals, dieticians, sports scientists, etc and lots of weekends away

    23 as of two years ago https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/dublin-backroom-team-picture-98181
    . Jim Gavin (manager): Since taking over in 2012, the former Under-21 manager has won three All-Irelands, four Leinster titles and four Allianz Leagues.

    2. Brian Doyle (sports administrator): Works with head of high performance Bryan Cullen (not pictured).

    3. Ray Boyne (head of performance analysis): On and off, the Ulster Bank employee has been crunching numbers for Dublin teams since 2003.

    4. Mick Deegan (selector): Gavin's right-hand man since 2012, he is the manager's voice on the sideline - passing instructions to the players.

    5. Jonathan Courtney (backroom team): The former Sarsfields (Kildare) manager is a former colleague of Gavin's in the defence forces.

    6. Niall Barry (physio): The chartered physiotherapist has also worked with Leinster Rugby, Cricket Ireland and Clontarf Rugby.

    7. Chris Farrell (cameraman): Involved with Gavin's All-Ireland winning Under-21s in 2012, he shoots match footage for analysis.

    8. Tony Boylan (logistics): Looks after the transport of all kit and equipment.

    9. Davy Byrne (goalkeeping coach): The former Dublin player has the happy task of honing the skills of Stephen Cluxton - who already held the number 1 shirt when Byrne retired in 2002.

    10. James Cullen (physio): Working with the Dublin footballers since 2007, he also treats the Irish rugby team having previously been with Leinster for eight years.

    11. Shane O'Hanlon (selector): The St Vincent's man is with Gavin since the Under-21 days and has been described by the manager as his 'operations manager'.

    12. Jason Sherlock (forwards coach): The former 'Darling of the Hill' was a team-mate of Gavin's and has been working with the attackers for the past two years.

    13. Declan Darcy (selector): Famously captained Leitrim to a Connacht title in 1994 before returning to his native Dublin. He and Deegan work mostly with the defenders in training.

    14. Jim Gavin senior (backroom team): Provider of fatherly advice to the manager.

    15. Bernard Dunne (lifestyle coach): Involved since 2013, the former WBA super bantamweight champion has described his role as “helping Jim in any way I can”.

    16. David Boylan (logistics): A son of Tony, he assists with the transport of Dublin's matchday equipment.

    17. Daniel Davey (nutritionist): Like other members of the backroom team, Davey also works with Leinster Rugby. The former Sligo footballer tells them what to eat and when to eat.

    18. Anne-Marie Kennedy (yoga teacher): Involved since 2013, Kennedy helps the players with breathing techniques and their mobility.

    19. Mick Seavers (Dublin county board vice-chairman): The Erin's Isle man was elected in 2015.

    20. Kieran O'Reilly (physio): Having previously worked with rugby and soccer professionals, O'Reilly is currently also involved with the Irish cricket team.

    21. Frank Roebuck (stats): A clubmate of Gavin's at Round Towers, he assists Boyne in analysing the game data gathered.

    22. Seamus McCormack (media manager): The former Erin's Isle footballer brings his Air Corps background to bare as he helps control the huge interest in Gavin and his team.

    23. Ciaran O'Malley (doctor): Looks after the matchday medical needs of the squad

    Very few counties can compete with that and Kerry and Mayo spend around 1million a year most of which is self funded.

    Cap the spend at €500,000 per team and it's an even playing field.

    Kerry have selectors, Donie Buckley strength and conditioning, a team doctor and I dont know what else they have but don't think it's anywhere near that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 Powerhouse



    Cap the spend at €500,000 per team and it's an even playing field.


    So there’s a limit to spending irrespective of how far you go in the championship, whether you are knocked out in the first round of the qualifiers in June or are still involved in maybe an All Ireland final replay in September? Not sure you’ve thought through the full implications of such a blunt instrument.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭ Perifect


    "Break that down and in terms of games development funding, between 2007 and 2018, Dublin received nearly €18m. As a sample of the rest, second was Cork with €1.43m, Kildare and Meath got just over €1m, Kerry €928,481, Mayo were at €718,780, while Tyrone got a relatively measly €679,216." :eek:

    Is this true? Looking at that article, Dublin going for 5 in a row is easily explained!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭ threeball


    Its truly sad that a purely profit driven administrating body like the NFL have a better grasp of fairness and creating equality than an amateur organisation like the GAA. The draft, salary cap and other measures are all in place to ensure that no franchise ends up with advantages like Dublin thereby damaging the brand and by extension the game.

    The GAA on the other hand have dispensed with any sort of semblance of equality in pursuit of short term profit at the expense of every other Irish person and at the expense of the games themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Are you or Egon claiming that all of those named are paid?

    If so what are the counties who spent more money on their senior county football team doing?

    http://mwr.ie/index.php/sport/10343-mayo-s-spending-on-their-inter-county-teams-in-2016-was-the-highest-in-the-country

    In 2015 Dublin, Cork, Tipp, Kerry, Limerick and Galway had largest overall spending within range of 1.5 million for Dublin down to 1 million for Kerry.
    Armagh spent 900,000 on their inter county footballers!


    Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Galway had competitive inter county teams in both sports and at all grades. There is really nothing sinister about it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭ Fann Linn


    All that money spent and Roscommon sitting with more points on the board.
    Money doesn't buy success.


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ Jeju


    Fann Linn wrote:
    All that money spent and Roscommon sitting with more points on the board. Money doesn't buy success.


    Yea but Roscommons holidays was a trip to Castlebar two weeks ago, Dublin had just jetted back from their winter sun break


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ shockframe


    The top 5 sides in both Football and Hurling lack for nothing wrt finances.

    Dublin are out on their own when it comes to winning but not when it comes to spending.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭ Gael85


    Jeju wrote: »
    Yea but Roscommons holidays was a trip to Castlebar two weeks ago, Dublin had just jetted back from their winter sun break

    Was wondering where Conor Cox got that tan from 😂😂


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Jeju wrote: »
    Yea but Roscommons holidays was a trip to Castlebar two weeks ago, Dublin had just jetted back from their winter sun break

    Every All Ireland winning team for at least the last ten years has rightly gotten a holiday out of it. Least any of them deserve.

    McKenna has been sniffing about for years in his hatred of Dublin hoping to come up with some tabloid sensation but like a dog to his own vomit is forced to regurgitate the same old stuff month after month.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭ Perifect


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Are you or Egon claiming that all of those named are paid?

    If so what are the counties who spent more money on their senior county football team doing?

    http://mwr.ie/index.php/sport/10343-mayo-s-spending-on-their-inter-county-teams-in-2016-was-the-highest-in-the-country

    In 2015 Dublin, Cork, Tipp, Kerry, Limerick and Galway had largest overall spending within range of 1.5 million for Dublin down to 1 million for Kerry.
    Armagh spent 900,000 on their inter county footballers!


    Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Galway had competitive inter county teams in both sports and at all grades. There is really nothing sinister about it.

    How are Dublin spending so much when they don't have players that have to travel?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭ Perifect


    shockframe wrote: »
    The top 5 sides in both Football and Hurling lack for nothing wrt finances.

    Dublin are out on their own when it comes to winning but not when it comes to spending.

    The article says that Dublin spent 18 million while the next best got 1 million. That's out on its own isn't it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Perifect wrote: »
    How are Dublin spending so much when they don't have players that have to travel?

    Our minor hurlers do have a teleporter, that is true ….


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭ Perifect


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Our minor hurlers do have a teleporter, that is true ….

    Are they all based in Dublin or around the country?


  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Clareman


    First off, any talk of a cap/budget or whatever isn't feasible, a former Clare Manager got funding directly from the "Supporters Club" which was chaired by a family member and who's accounts were accounted for by the county boar.

    When Kilkenny were going for a 5 in a row in hurling there wasn't talk about cutting their funding, it's up to the other teams to beat them, ultimately you can only have a max of 15 players on the pitch at any time, it's up to the opposition to beat them, if it was all down to funding then America would be the best rugby/soccer team in the world.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Perifect wrote: »
    The article says that Dublin spent 18 million while the next best got 1 million. That's out on its own isn't it?

    Cork spent more in one fkn year, as in one of links I posted above, than McKenna claims they received in over ten years!

    What sort of mumbo jumbo maths is this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭ Perifect


    Clareman wrote: »
    First off, any talk of a cap/budget or whatever isn't feasible, a former Clare Manager got funding directly from the "Supporters Club" which was chaired by a family member and who's accounts were accounted for by the county boar.

    When Kilkenny were going for a 5 in a row in hurling there wasn't talk about cutting their funding, it's up to the other teams to beat them, ultimately you can only have a max of 15 players on the pitch at any time, it's up to the opposition to beat them, if it was all down to funding then America would be the best rugby/soccer team in the world.

    But hang on, what is the money being spent on? Some poster said that Dublin are spending 1.5 million on their senior footballers. Is that on top of the 18 million? What are they doing with all that money?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Perifect wrote: »
    Are they all based in Dublin or around the country?

    You've never seen Star Trek then :)

    Teleporting eliminates all distances.

    At the risk of being serious, however, I would imagine that all of the Dublin minor hurlers like all minor hurlers everywhere more than likely live in the county.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭ Perifect


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Cork spent more in one fkn year, as in one of links I posted above, than McKenna claims they received in over ten years!

    What sort of mumbo jumbo maths is this?

    Then you have to add Dublin spending 1.5 million more too? They do that every year?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭ Perifect


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    You've never seen Star Trek then :)

    Teleporting eliminates all distances.

    At the risk of being serious, however, I would imagine that all of the Dublin minor hurlers like all minor hurlers everywhere more than likely live in the county.

    I just don't get it. Where is all the money coming from? How is this happening?


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,593 DoctaDee


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    ....


    Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Galway had competitive inter county teams in both sports and at all grades. There is really nothing sinister about it.

    Exactly.. if anyone would like a little homework have a look and see the size of Michael Ryan's backroom with Tipp or Ephie Fitzgerald with Cork ladies.

    if your only agenda is to point the finger solely in Dublin's direction and believe the funding for all other inter county teams come from church collections after Sunday mass carry on regardless .. because today was not a school day for you..


  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Clareman


    Perifect wrote: »
    But hang on, what is the money being spent on? Some poster said that Dublin are spending 1.5 million on their senior footballers. Is that on top of the 18 million? What are they doing with all that money?

    I've no idea what the breakdown of the money is for, they could be gold plating Parnell Park for all I care, ultimately no matter how much money they have it's all about getting their squad of players ready to win matches which every other county have to do as well. Another point is that all Dublin's players are accounted for in regards to employment/student not every county can say that, looking at Lee Chin admitting to living off sponsorships.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭ Perifect


    DoctaDee wrote: »
    Exactly.. if anyone would like a little homework have a look and see the size of Michael Ryan's backroom with Tipp or Ephie Fitzgerald with Cork ladies.

    if your only agenda is to point the finger solely in Dublin's direction and believe the funding for all other inter county teams come from church collections after Sunday mass carry on regardless .. because today was not a school day for you..

    The article says 18 million for Dublin and 1 million for the next best Cork. Is that true?


  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Clareman


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Clare, Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Galway had competitive inter county teams in both sports and at all grades. There is really nothing sinister about it.

    FYP


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭ Perifect


    Clareman wrote: »
    I've no idea what the breakdown of the money is for, they could be gold plating Parnell Park for all I care, ultimately no matter how much money they have it's all about getting their squad of players ready to win matches which every other county have to do as well. Another point is that all Dublin's players are accounted for in regards to employment/student not every county can say that, looking at Lee Chin admitting to living off sponsorships.

    Well where is the money coming from? It's 18 million like. Why don't you care where it's going?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Perifect wrote: »
    Then you have to add Dublin spending 1.5 million more too? They do that every year?

    You started off by claiming that Dublin footballers are successful because they spend 18,000,000 on the senior team. In fact they spent less than others in several years and not much more than the leading counties in other years.

    Now, you are implying that they are using 18,000,000 for some sinister other purpose? What is it?

    Perhaps that obsessive Egon will tell us as he has been promising to do for years, but never quite gotten around to it. At least the other one trick pony Kimmage who wrote one decent article in the last century about the cess pool that is cycling had the good grace to give up when he couldn't find any slight hint of the corruption, drug taking, bribery and theft that goes on in his own and other sports.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭ Perifect


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    You started off by claiming that Dublin footballers are successful because they spend 18,000,000 on the senior team. In fact they spent less than others in several years and not much more than the leading counties in other years.

    Now, you are implying that they are using 18,000,000 for some sinister other purpose? What is it?

    Perhaps that obsessive Egon will tell us as he has been promising to do for years, but never quite gotten around to it. At least the other one trick pony Kimmage who wrote one decent article in the last century about the cess pool that is cycling had the good grace to give up when he couldn't find any slight hint of the corruption, drug taking, bribery and theft that goes on in his own and other sports.

    No I didn't. I'm asking where did the money come from and what it's spent on! What are they doing with the 18 million? I'm not implying anything. Who is Egon?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,593 DoctaDee


    Perifect wrote: »
    The article says 18 million for Dublin and 1 million for the next best Cork. Is that true?

    No,.. there's a convenience when dealing with figures in that you can make them bend to your particular pov. What gets lost or at the very least overlooked in these spreadsheet forensics is the
    additional money given to every other county (bar Dublin) from their provincial councils for games development.

    You can also see here that some people conflate the GD grant from central council as a payment to fund the senior set ups.. it's not, you'd have to look deeper into the finances and check under the team expenses for that figure.. it makes for a different conversation on where the unspoken money goes


  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Clareman


    Perifect wrote: »
    Well where is the money coming from? It's 18 million like. Why don't you care where it's going?

    Let's get some maths to look at the numbers, assuming the numbers are right and are from this widely distributed list
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=472807&stc=1&d=1549923438
    taking into account population it could be argued that Dublin are underfunded compared to other counties

    County Population Budget Per Person
    Dublin 2,137,639 €17,916,477.00 €8.38
    Antrim 618,108 €1,059,400.00 €1.71
    Cork 542,196 €1,434,287.00 €2.65
    Down 531,665 €699,521.00 €1.32
    Galway 258,552 €968,539.00 €3.75
    Derry 247,132 €1,344,075.00 €5.44
    Kildare 222,130 €1,090,427.00 €4.91
    Limerick 195,175 €930,337.00 €4.77
    Meath 194,942 €1,190,047.00 €6.10
    Tyrone 179,000 €679,216.00 €3.79
    Armagh 174,792 €816,655.00 €4.67
    Tipperary 160,441 €965,082.00 €6.02
    Donegal 158,755 €704,938.00 €4.44
    Wexford 149,605 €1,004,996.00 €6.72
    Kerry 147,554 €98,481.00 €0.67
    Wicklow 142,332 €1,006,294.00 €7.07
    Mayo 130,425 €718,780.00 €5.51
    Louth 128,375 €948,007.00 €7.38
    Clare 118,817 €838,518.00 €7.06
    Waterford 116,401 €984,557.00 €8.46
    Kilkenny 99,118 €803,582.00 €8.11
    Westmeath 88,770 €871,420.00 €9.82
    Laois 84,732 €1,074,486.00 €12.68
    Offaly 78,003 €1,004,426.00 €12.88
    Cavan 76,092 €750,425.00 €9.86
    Sligo 65,357 €720,140.00 €11.02
    Roscommon 64,436 €771,559.00 €11.97
    Fermanagh 61,170 €634,173.00 €10.37
    Monaghan 61,273 €669,957.00 €10.93
    Carlow 56,875 €856,897.00 €15.07
    Longford 40,810 €650,484.00 €15.94
    Leitrim 31,972 €688,521.00 €21.54


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭ Perifect


    DoctaDee wrote: »
    No,.. there's a convenience when dealing with figures in that you can make them bend to your particular pov. What gets lost or at the very least overlooked in these spreadsheet forensics is the
    additional money given to every other county (bar Dublin) from their provincial councils for games development.

    You can also see here that some people conflate the GD grant from central council as a payment to fund the senior set ups.. it's not, you'd have to look deeper into the finances and check under the team expenses for that figure.. it makes for a different conversation on where the unspoken money goes

    What does the money get spent on? Does the provincial council money even it up? It'd want to be a lot!


This discussion has been closed.
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