YouTube announces it will no longer recommend conspiracy videos

nullzero

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Nullzero. I writing this for you.
Gerald Reitlinger, acknowledged to be one of the finest holocaust researchers in the world believes the holocust event took about 4 million + Jewish lives.
I think his number it likely to be true.Another 2 million likely died from other causes (some i listed earlier) and immigration some fled before it got bad.
Others take is 6 million murdered during the Holocust others have extended as high as 11 million.

I do accept 6 million Jews disappeared from Europe after 1933. The 1933 census is legit ( no argument there)
 I don’t believe for a minute and call me racist if you like 6 million Jews got massacred in Poland and nowhere else. 
Any bit of exploration into this topic establishes the deaths camps opened for 1 to 2 years and then closed in 1942. So it’s Logistically impossible to gas 6 million Jews in just two years.
Most people who never studied the holocaust, believe the death camps continued open till 1945, that’s a false memory, Hollywood is to blame for that.

Auschwitz encampment was the only death camp still in existence in Poland early 1945, late 1944 German camp guards fled and left the prisoners to look after themselves. Many died in the camp too afraid and shocked to leave. 
End of day you can blame the Nazis for 6 million fleeing or taken from from their homes- but it not logical 6 million got murdered just in Poland. 

As long as we can agree that the net result is the same number of Jews dead(6 million) at the hands of the Nazis I have no problem.

As for what others here are attributing to you, I find it difficult to appropriate those claims at face value as the people making those claims seem incapable of debating in good faith.

Play the ball not the man, if everyone could engage on that level this thread would have a lot less bickering and nonsense posted in it.

Cheerful Spring2

nullzero wrote: »

As long as we can agree that the net result is the same number of Jews dead(6 million) at the hands of the Nazis I have no problem.

I can agree the 6 million number disappeared is legit. What happened to 6 million? My point is you can't claim all 6 million after 1933 got killed by death squads, thrown in pits, and gassed.

nullzero

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I can agree the 6 million number disappeared is legit. What happened to 6 million? My point is you can't claim all 6 million after 1933 got killed by death squads, thrown in pits, and gassed.

That is contrary to what the other posters are claiming you believe. I would assume you take exception to be misrepresented in this manner?
The one ammendment I would make would make you be to change "dissappeared" to "died".

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Nullzero. I writing this for you.
Gerald Reitlinger, acknowledged to be one of the finest holocaust researchers in the world believes the holocust event took about 4 million + Jewish lives.
I think his number it likely to be true.Another 2 million likely died from other causes (some i listed earlier) and immigration some fled before it got bad.
Others take is 6 million murdered during the Holocust others have extended as high as 11 million.

I do accept 6 million Jews disappeared from Europe after 1933. The 1933 census is legit ( no argument there)
 I don’t believe for a minute and call me racist if you like 6 million Jews got massacred in Poland and nowhere else. 
Any bit of exploration into this topic establishes the deaths camps opened for 1 to 2 years and then closed in 1942. So it’s Logistically impossible to gas 6 million Jews in just two years.
Most people who never studied the holocaust, believe the death camps continued open till 1945, that’s a false memory, Hollywood is to blame for that.

Auschwitz encampment was the only death camp still in existence in Poland early 1945, late 1944 German camp guards fled and left the prisoners to look after themselves. Many died in the camp too afraid and shocked to leave. 
End of day you can blame the Nazis for 6 million fleeing or taken from from their homes- but it not logical 6 million got murdered just in Poland. 

But you claimed the figure was 2.5 to 3 million Jews..

I like how your Holocaust denial is "flexible" depending on having a potential ally in your debates

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

That is contrary to what the other posters are claiming you believe. I would assume you take exception to be misrepresented in this manner?
The one ammendment I would make would make you be to change "dissappeared" to "died".

There's a reason he's saying "disappeared" and not "died."

You are doing some very creative misreading of his posts to avoid admitting his claims are holocaust denial.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Nullzero. I writing this for you.
Gerald Reitlinger, acknowledged to be one of the finest holocaust researchers in the world believes the holocust event took about 4 million + Jewish lives.
I think his number it likely to be true. Another 2 million likely died from other causes (some i listed earlier) and immigration some fled before it got bad.
Others take is 6 million murdered during the Holocust others have extended as high as 11 million.

Firstly, the accepted figure is around 11 million people. (6 million Jewish people and 5 million other people from other persecuted minorities.)

Saying "Four million + Jewish lives" is not accurate. It's Holocaust denial.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

So it’s Logistically impossible to gas 6 million Jews in just two years.
Most people who never studied the holocaust, believe the death camps continued open till 1945, that’s a false memory, Hollywood is to blame for that.

No one claims that 6 million Jewish people were gassed.

The figure of 6 million people comes from a combination of many different methods which include gassing in camps, gassing in specially made vans, shooting, starvation etc etc.

This is a popular canard used by holocaust denialists.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

End of day you can blame the Nazis for 6 million fleeing or taken from from their homes- but it not logical 6 million got murdered just in Poland. 

No. Nazis KILLED 6 million Jewish people.

Dohnjoe

nullzero wrote: »

That is contrary to what the other posters are claiming you believe. I would assume you take exception to be misrepresented in this manner?
The one ammendment I would make would make you be to change "dissappeared" to "died".

The reaching going on here is pretty hilarious

You think you guys can meet in somewhere in the middle on Holocaust history?

I've clearly been here too long as I can imagine PM's from Cheerful. "These guys are dicks, I'm willing to go to 4 mm Jews dead but no more, okay maybe 5, k?"

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I can agree the 6 million number disappeared is legit. What happened to 6 million? My point is you can't claim all 6 million after 1933 got killed by death squads, thrown in pits, and gassed.

Cheerful, please state in a clear figure how many Jewish people were directly killed by the nazis and their actions.
How many of those disappeared Jewish people were killed and how many "fled" or otherwise vanished?

nullzero

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The reaching going on here is pretty hilarious

You think you guys can meet in somewhere in the middle on Holocaust history?

I've clearly been here too long as I can imagine PM's from Cheerful. "These guys are dicks, I'm willing to go to 4 mm Jews dead but no more, okay maybe 5, k?"

I can only take things as I find them.
If you want to argue with this person be my guest.

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

There's a reason he's saying "disappeared" and not "died."

You are doing some very creative misreading of his posts to avoid admitting his claims are holocaust denial.


Firstly, the accepted figure is around 11 million people. (6 million Jewish people and 5 million other people from other persecuted minorities.)

Saying "Four million + Jewish lives" is not accurate. It's Holocaust denial.

No one claims that 6 million Jewish people were gassed.

The figure of 6 million people comes from a combination of many different methods which include gassing in camps, gassing in specially made vans, shooting, starvation etc etc.

This is a popular canard used by holocaust denialists.

No. Nazis KILLED 6 million Jewish people.

I take exception to the phrase "creative misreading" especially when coming from somebody who demonstrably has trouble comprehending things themselves.

If you can't sort this discussion properly I suggest yourself and Cheerful spring take it to pm and allow the thread to go back on topic.

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

I take exception to the phrase "creative misreading" especially when coming from somebody who demonstrably has trouble comprehending things themselves.

Yes, you say this. But I just pointed out examples of Cheerful making statements that you would classify as holocaust denial.

The reason he is saying "Disappeared" and not "Died" is because he doesn't believe that 6 million Jewish people died in the holocaust. He believes the number is closer to 2-3 million and that 3 million more Jews fled (or otherwise disappeared).

Again, if this is not accurate, I welcome correction.

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

Yes, you say this. But I just pointed out examples of Cheerful making statements that you would classify as holocaust denial.

The reason he is saying "Disappeared" and not "Died" is because he doesn't believe that 6 million Jewish people died in the holocaust. He believes the number is closer to 2-3 million and that 3 million more Jews fled (or otherwise disappeared).

Again, if this is not accurate, I welcome correction.

I posed that to him and I am awaiting a response. You can read that above.

Cheerful Spring2

nullzero wrote: »

I take exception to the phrase "creative misreading" especially when coming from somebody who demonstrably has trouble comprehending things themselves.

If you can't sort this discussion properly I suggest yourself and Cheerful spring take it to pm and allow the thread to go back on topic.

1933 census of mainland Europe and Eastern Europe showed there was 9.5 million Jews (first point) we have population stat!
After the war the writers and researchers agreed that 3.5 million Jews were left in Europe (second point)
That’s how they reached, the 6 million for the holocaust today.

The challenging part is trying to find out what happened to the 6 million Jews in Europe after 1933. Nobody can really give you an accurate number, but its not 6 million. 
I did have an opinion the Holocaust event caused about 3 to 4 million deaths. 
I’m flexible on the number for lot of reasons. I explain why next. 

It is nonsensical to claim every Jewish man, woman and child was gassed and killed and thrown in a pit in Poland after 1933!

The war appeared in 1939. What was transpiring in the six years inbetween?.
How many Jewish families who could afford it fled to the UK, America, Canada, South Amerca and other places? Did Jewish people not die from natural illness? Did war not kill any Jewish people? Since they blended with other nationalties on same streets, at the start of the war,  theyare going to be murdered likewise as others during a military invasion.

The Nazis invaded Holland, Belgium, France and Poland where most of the Europeans Jews lived.. Then there is extreme winters in Poland! ( Hitler lost a large chunk of his eastern army to frostbite)  If Hitler could not look after his own soldiers, the jews were going to be lot worse state, during the winter months in Poland.  You simply can account for the 6 million with a war on for almost six years. 

At the end of the day, denial, is claiming the holocust was a Jewish hoax. And no camp existed at all in poland. You cannot have a serious debate with debunkers, they keep telling you the 6 million figure gassed and murdered by death squads is accurate, even though prominent holocust researchers disagree and have gone as low as 4 million.

Holocust is killing of Jews by gassing and death squads there nothing in between!

Dohnjoe

King Mob wrote: »

Yes, you say this. But I just pointed out examples of Cheerful making statements that you would classify as holocaust denial.

The reason he is saying "Disappeared" and not "Died" is because he doesn't believe that 6 million Jewish people died in the holocaust. He believes the number is closer to 2-3 million and that 3 million more Jews fled (or otherwise disappeared).

Again, if this is not accurate, I welcome correction.

Revision, because "that's what historians do"

I think we are going to see is a complete rehash of the same old waffle with the usual canards, but some capitulation to push the figures higher but never 6 million, never!

Dohnjoe

lol, called it

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I did have an opinion the Holocaust event caused about 3 to 4 million deaths. 

nullzero wrote: »

To clarify, 6 million Jews died in the holocaust. Striving to accurately describe the mode of death for all of them is acceptable. Saying a few million less died in total isn't.

nullzero wrote: »

Yes I would agree that rounding the number of deaths in the holocaust down is holocaust denial. I haven't stated anything contrary to that at any point.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Holocust is killing of Jews by gassing and death squads there nothing in between!

No cheerful, it's not.
From The US Holocaust Memorial Museum:
https://www.ushmm.org/learn

The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its allies and collaborators.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution

Jewish Loss by Location of Death
With regard to the number of Jews who died in the Holocaust, best estimates for the breakdown of Jewish loss according to location of death follow:

Location of Death Jewish Losses
Auschwitz complex (including Birkenau, Monowitz, and subcamps) approximately 1 million
Treblinka 2 approximately 925,000
Belzec 434,508
Sobibor at least 167,000
Chelmno 156,000–172,000
Shooting operations at various locations in central and southern German-occupied Poland (the Government General) at least 200,000
Shooting operations in German-annexed western Poland (District Wartheland) at least 20,000
Deaths in other facilities that the Germans designated as concentration camps at least 150,000
Shooting operations and gas wagons at hundreds of locations in the German-occupied Soviet Union at least 1.3 million
Shooting operations in the Soviet Union (German, Austrian, Czech Jews deported to the Soviet Union) approximately 55,000
Shooting operations and gas wagons in Serbia at least 15,088
Shot or tortured to death in Croatia under the Ustaša regime 23,000–25,000
Deaths in ghettos at least 800,000
Other1 at least 500,000

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

No cheerful, it's not.
From The US Holocaust Memorial Museum:
https://www.ushmm.org/learn


https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution

The Nazis kept no evidences of squad killing and gassing!. You realise that, right? How did the arrive at those figures with no records? Who was counting? I know this stuff it too much for you think about? Wander off talking about something else.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The Nazis kept no evidences of squad killing and gassing!. You realise that, right? How did the arrive at those figures with no records? Who was counting? I know this stuff it too much for you think about? Wander off talking about something else.

Lol cheerful. Go talk to the historians Holocaust museum if you disagree with their figures. I'm sure they'll love to have you point out their mistake.:rolleyes:

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The Nazis kept no evidences of squad killing and gassing!. You realise that, right? How did the arrive at those figures with no records? Who was counting? I know this stuff it too much for you think about? Wander off talking about something else.

According to world historians the death toll is officially around 6 million (consensus estimates range from 5.5 to 6.2)

So you are saying they are all wrong?

Are these historians missing something that you know?

nullzero

The last few posts would make wonderful PM's.

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

The last few posts would make wonderful PM's.

Do you agree cheerful is a holocaust denier?

Given your previous comments and accusations I think we should clear this up a bit first.

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

According to world historians the death toll is officially around 6 million (consensus estimates range from 5.5 to 6.2)

So you are saying they are all wrong?

Are these historians missing something that you know?

Like i said before.
Gerald Reitlinger, acknowledged to be one of the finest holocaust researchers in the world, believes the holocaust event took about 4 million + Jewish lives.

Is his figures wrong. By your stance he is a holocust denier. Finished debating this. Get back to topic.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Like i said before.
Gerald Reitlinger, acknowledged to be one of the finest holocaust researchers in the world, believes the holocaust event took about 4 million + Jewish lives.

Believed.
He's been dead for 42 years.
His work is nearly 70 years old.

Lol also, the main reference on his wiki page:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4467046?seq=1

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

Believed.
He's been dead for 42 years.
His work is nearly 70 years old.

"During the 1950s he wrote two books about the Holocaust: The SS: Alibi of a Nation and The Final Solution, both of which achieved large sales. In the latter book, he alleged that Soviet claims of the Auschwitz death toll being 4 million were "ridiculous", and he suggested an alternative figure of 800,000 to 900,000 dead;

Now today is the accepted figure for Auschwitz 1 million. He knew the Soviet figures for the camps was propaganda in the 50s.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

"During the 1950s he wrote two books about the Holocaust: The SS: Alibi of a Nation and The Final Solution, both of which achieved large sales. In the latter book, he alleged that Soviet claims of the Auschwitz death toll being 4 million were "ridiculous", and he suggested an alternative figure of 800,000 to 900,000 dead;

Now today is the accepted figure for Auschwitz 1 million. He knew the Soviet figures for the camps was propaganda in the 50s.

Again, go to the holocaust museums and explain where they've gone wrong.
You can point to the 70 year old research and books (which you haven't read). I bet they've never heard of his work before. :rolleyes:

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

"During the 1950s he wrote two books about the Holocaust: The SS: Alibi of a Nation and The Final Solution, both of which achieved large sales. In the latter book, he alleged that Soviet claims of the Auschwitz death toll being 4 million were "ridiculous", and he suggested an alternative figure of 800,000 to 900,000 dead;

Now today is the accepted figure for Auschwitz 1 million. He knew the Soviet figures for the camps was propaganda in the 50s.

Reitlinger, in 1953, estimated between 4.2 and 4.5 were killed. And even he admitted he didn't have all the data.

You are claiming it was 2.5 to 3, why you agreeing with a historian who directly contradicts you?

King Mob

Anyway, to bring this back around, I found this while looking for the actual figures and break down for the holocaust.

http://www.claimscon.org/study/

New Survey by Claims Conference Finds Significant Lack of Holocaust Knowledge in the United States
...
The study also found significant gaps in knowledge about the Holocaust:
Nearly one-third of all Americans (31 percent) and more than 4-in-10 Millennials (41 percent) believe that substantially less than 6 million Jews were killed (two million or fewer) during the Holocaust

So we have an increasing number of young people effectively forgetting history.

Even if it's not the direct cause, having nonsense like holocaust denial floating around unchallenged can't be helping things.

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

Again, go to the holocaust museums and explain where they've gone wrong.
You can point to the 70 year old research and books (which you haven't read). I bet they've never heard of his work before. :rolleyes:

I believe the holocaust happened. So what would be the point? I just be arguing about the estimates? Researchers do that anyway.

With 9/11, JFK,  i believe those events are cover-ups and official narrative wrong. I don't believe much of that anything about the official account around 9/11 only planes got hijacked and hit buildings.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I believe the holocaust happened. So what would be the point? I just be arguing about the estimates? Researchers do that anyway.
.

No, you don't do what researchers and actual historians do. You are a holocaust denier. You are denying actual research and replacing it with conspiracy theories you read from the internet.

Why do you think the historians at the Holocaust museum have it wrong?
Do you believe it's because you are a better historian than them?
Do you know more than them?

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Reitlinger, in 1953, estimated between 4.2 and 4.5 were killed. And even he admitted he didn't have all the data.

You are claiming it was 2.5 to 3, why you agreeing with a historian who directly contradicts you?

3 to 4 million- I said. I not opposed to either figure.
He could be correct with 4 million+ Its within a ball park that believable.
You guys still claim the six million number and dropping below that is holocust denial.
He doesn't agree with you either
Nice line trying to claim he had not got all the data. Soviets inflated the numbers (what was number) in the 60s. Was six million still?

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

No, you don't do what researchers and actual historians do. You are a holocaust denier. You are denying actual research and replacing it with conspiracy theories you read from the internet.

Why do you think the historians at the Holocaust museum have it wrong?
Do you believe it's because you are a better historian than them?
Do you know more than them?

You're not telling me how the arrived at those numbers with no records. Answer the question?