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Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

There evidence in every thread you guys dislike free speech and what to censor topics and different opinions. You guys need to have a look in the mirror. You guys be the first people to put on fascism uniforms in an authoritarian society.

If it goes down that road, you'll be there to deny the extent of our atrocities

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

There evidence in every thread you guys dislike free speech and what to censor topics and different opinions. You guys need to have a look in the mirror. You guys be the first people to put on fascism uniforms in an authoritarian society.

Lol again, you deny the holocaust, defended the Nazis, use Neo nazis and their stooges as references and spread their propaganda.

Hilarious.

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

Again, I brought up the topic only as an example of "alternative" thought that most people disagree with. I mentioned no facts or specifics of the topic.

I also brought up flat eartherism and creationism and if I remember right the idea of mass shootings being fake...


Well considering that the majority of the claims that you're complaining about I never made...
For example your last claim that I said that you agreed with cheerful's holocaust denial. I never once said that.
How can I provide backup for claims I never made?

I don't think you have any details about why you find cheerful's holocaust denial to be unacceptable, because it's an empty statement you made earlier to feign offence of the idea that silly claims like that might share aspects with the silly claims you like.

I never claimed that you said I agreed with him, you did however suggest that I agreed with him in part and more consistently you have suggested I am lending him some sort of moral support which I haven't done beyond accepting he has a right to his opinion. You suggested that I was motivated to not openly disagree with him, which I have done on numerous occasions.

I have only stated that I disagree with the man but accept he has the right to hold his opinion.
You have added to that yourself based upon your own bias, in the course of doing so you have taken my comments out of context at the thin edge of the wedge and completely misrepresented me on the other end.

You haven't provided a single quote from me supporting what you're claiming about me, for somebody who demands proof from others so regularly you're failing to meet the standards you're setting for others.

As for your opinion on why I would support his right to hold an opinion I don't agree with, you're really engaging your imagination there. That's thing thing about freedom of expression, you can't cherry pick who has that freedom and when, you obviously don't agree that people should have right freedom of expression and that's your right, as it is your opinion. Best of luck to you with it, what you don't have a right to do is put words in other peoples mouths, that the issue I have with you.

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

Lol again, you deny the holocaust, defended the Nazis, use Neo nazis and their stooges as references and spread their propaganda.

Hilarious.

I must have missed where he defended, the Nazis, that isn't acceptable.

Cheerful spring, do you support the Nazis?

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

I never claimed that you said I agreed with him,

Yes, you did.

nullzero wrote: »

What I would really like are the quotes of me saying I agree with him, because I know, as do you that they don't exist.

nullzero wrote: »

you did however suggest that I agreed with him in part and more consistently you have suggested I am lending him some sort of moral support which I haven't done beyond accepting he has a right to his opinion.

I claimed neither of those things.

nullzero wrote: »

You suggested that I was motivated to not openly disagree with him, which I have done on numerous occasions.

Yes, after spending several pages not saying that you disagree with him, attempting to change the subject and after saying things like:

nullzero wrote: »

It appears on the surface that the total number of Jews killed remains the same with a smaller number able to be attributed to deaths in the concentration camps.

The net result remains constant with 6 million plus Jews dead at the hands on the Nazis just with differing modes of death to what is generally assumed to be the case.

That isn't really playing with words at all, perhaps your own ability to understand things is the problem here.

To clarify, anyone stating that 2.5 million Jews dead in the holocaust is the total number of deaths is patently incorrect, but that isn't what I see being said in this case.

nullzero wrote: »

Your opinion on what holocaust denial is up to you. If the net number remains the same and an accurate account of different modes of death is all that's being discussed then there isn't any harm in striving to be accurate.

nullzero wrote: »

As long as we can agree that the net result is the same number of Jews dead(6 million) at the hands of the Nazis I have no problem.

You still have not actually said directly he's a holocaust denier nor have you commented on any of his claims beyond the initial few about which you said were reasonable attempts at "being accurate".

nullzero wrote: »

You haven't provided a single quote from me supporting what you're claiming about me, for somebody who demands proof from others so regularly you're failing to meet the standards you're setting for others.

Again, what you say I've claimed about you, and what I've actually claimed in reality are two different things.

Dohnjoe

nullzero wrote: »

I must have missed where he defended, the Nazis, that isn't acceptable.

Cheerful spring, do you support the Nazis?

It's hilarious have you are trying to "subtly" tag up with this Holocaust denier

- Now Cheerful, remember, you have to say no to this question

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

I must have missed where he defended, the Nazis, that isn't acceptable.

Cheerful spring, do you support the Nazis?

Again, this occured in a previous thread that you are not familiar with.
Like when you didn't believe cheerful was a holocaust denier because you weren't as familiar with his claims as we are.

And again, you have just said that posters here are using "a tactic of the Nazi party as it happens. "

Your offense doesn't ring true.

Cheerful Spring2

nullzero wrote: »

I must have missed where he defended, the Nazis, that isn't acceptable.

Cheerful spring, do you support the Nazis?

This forum sheds light on who the actual Nazis are!
Curbing free speech and opinion- is suppression and censorship, and the Nazis, admired that.
Do i support Nazis no. I don’t have a uniform, not a member of a neo-nazi forum, never campaigned online for racism.  

Cheerful Spring2

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

This forum sheds light on who the actual Nazis are!
Curbing free speech and opinion- is suppression and censorship, and the Nazis, admired that.
Do i support Nazis no. I don’t have a uniform, not a member of a neo-nazi forum, never campaigned online for racism.  

Do you think the nazis had executed an organised plan to eliminate the Jewish people and other specific groups? Also why do you think historians have been lying for decades?

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

This forum sheds light on who the actual Nazis are!
Curbing free speech and opinion- is suppression and censhorshop, and Nazis admired that.
Do i support Nazis no. I don’t have a uniform, not a member of a neo-nazi forum, never campaigned online for racism.  

Yet here you are trying to downplay the severity of their atrocities..

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

Yes, you did.




I claimed neither of those things.


Yes, after spending several pages not saying that you disagree with him, attempting to change the subject and after saying things like:







You still have not actually said directly he's a holocaust denier nor have you commented on any of his claims beyond the initial few about which you said were reasonable attempts at "being accurate".


Again, what you say I've claimed about you, and what I've actually claimed in reality are two different things.

He initially stated he agreed with the 6 million deaths in the holocaust, then he progressed onto a few million people "disappearing" which is where I diverged from his opinion being valid.

I have quoted you on numerous occasions saying things about me that have no basis in fact, I have asked you to substantiate those posts with quotes from me supporting what you've said. You in the post I'm currently quoting have taken quotes I made days ago before Cheerful progressed his opinion to a point where I found it unacceptable. At one point I was happy to explore other modes of death for the same number of deaths but his opinion degenerated from there at which point I stated that I didn't agree with him. This is obvious if the thread is read properly, what you have done is take something I said prior to me disagreeing with Cheerful and presented it out of context.

In my opinion if Cheerful is saying 2 million Jews "disappeared" instead of being killed by the Nazis that makes him a holocaust denier.

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

Again, this occured in a previous thread that you are not familiar with.
Like when you didn't believe cheerful was a holocaust denier because you weren't as familiar with his claims as we are.

And again, you have just said that posters here are using "a tactic of the Nazi party as it happens. "

Your offense doesn't ring true.

I was referring to Hitlers idea of the "big lie" as outlined in mein kampf. So it is contextually correct to use that reference.

nullzero

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's hilarious have you are trying to "subtly" tag up with this Holocaust denier

- Now Cheerful, remember, you have to say no to this question

I posed him a direct question.
How that is subtly tagging up with somebody I'm not sure.

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. So to confirm so there is no more misunderstandings.
1. You believe that cheerful is engaging in holocaust denial.
2. You believe is holocaust denial is not acceptable.

Are both of these correct?
If they are not, then you're going to have to explain why they aren't a walk back on your previous statements.

I believe you are walking back on your previous statments becuase comments like:

and

Which to me appear to be walking back and qualifying things.

This can be clear up if you just directly state your position rather than telling us what your position is not.

Here's a post that you have yet to substantiate. I haven't walked back on anything. I have changed my position based upon new information as it raised, hardly revisionism or walking back when I openly stated I disagreed with Cheerful when he crossed the rubicon in my opinion.

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

He initially stated he agreed with the 6 million deaths in the holocaust, then he progressed onto a few million people "disappearing" which is where I diverged from his opinion being valid.

He never stated that he agreed with 6 million deaths. He very carefully couched his language in that case.

You fell for it partly because you were more interested in disagreeing with us mean ol' skeptics.

nullzero wrote: »

In my opinion if Cheerful is saying 2 million Jews "disappeared" instead of being killed by the Nazis that makes him a holocaust denier.

What do you mean "if"?
He does do that...
He's done that many times in clear terms.

Yet you're saying "if"...?


Have you not been reading this thread?

nullzero

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

This forum sheds light on who the actual Nazis are!
Curbing free speech and opinion- is suppression and censorship, and the Nazis, admired that.
Do i support Nazis no. I don’t have a uniform, not a member of a neo-nazi forum, never campaigned online for racism.  

Have you ever stated that you are a Nazi, or support Nazi ideology?

Do you hate Jews or other ethnic or racial groups?

Are you a racist and pretending not to be?

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

He never stated that he agreed with 6 million deaths. He very carefully couched his language in that case.

You fell for it partly because you were more interested in disagreeing with us mean ol' skeptics.


What do you mean "if"?
He does do that...
He's done that many times in clear terms.

Yet you're saying "if"...?


Have you not been reading this thread?

If he say it he's wrong.
That is pretty simple stuff.

He said one thing that I felt could be accepted and then said something else that I disagreed with.

Then you said I was walking back on what I had said when I didn't.

Show me where I walked back on anything.
You haven't been able to support that, Dohnjoe hasn't been able to support what he's been saying either.

Dohnjoe

nullzero wrote: »

He initially stated he agreed with the 6 million deaths in the holocaust, then he progressed onto a few million people "disappearing" which is where I diverged from his opinion being valid.

And despite discovering the poster is a Holocaust denier, they can count on your continued support. It's just an "opinion you disagree with" and you respect that.

You've qualified that view with the belief that this denier is not really antisemitic. Because that's where you'd apparently draw the line.

There's an interesting mini-Olympics mental gymnastics competition going on there

Cheerful Spring2

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you think the nazis had executed an organised plan to eliminate the Jewish people and other specific groups? Also why do you think historians have been lying for decades?

Historically, census had it 9.5 million Jews lived in Europe and the Soviet union in 1933.
At the end of the war after an investigation, there was 3.5 million Jewish people left!
Historically, the holocaust genocide period started in early 1942 ( when Jews got transported on special trains from Europe to Polish mainland and the Czech republic..
According to the lore all 6 million ( in the census) were rounded up by the Nazi regime in 1942, and gassed in chambers or shoot by German soldiers and thrown in pits.
Realistically no race was protected from WW2 and to claim all six million got killed this way after 1942 make no sense. 
If you look at the weeds of the holocaust, a large portion of Jewish population fled to the Soviet Union, when the Nazi war machine invaded Poland in 1939. 

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

Here's a post that you have yet to substantiate. I haven't walked back on anything. I have changed my position based upon new information as it raised, hardly revisionism or walking back when I openly stated I disagreed with Cheerful when he crossed the rubicon in my opinion.

But I do substansiate that post. You can see the quotes.


I believed those quotes to be you walking back your position and couching your position.

This could have been corrected by simply answering my question with a direct yes or no.
But that was too much trouble for you it seems.

You are still kind of couching your position with Ifs and indirect statements in my opinion. You are doing so to the point that I believe if I said "you believe cheerful spring is a holocaust denier and his position is unacceptable" you would still say that I'm misrepresenting you....

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

If he say it he's wrong.
That is pretty simple stuff.
.

Again. Why are you saying "if"?

Do you not believe he's claimed it now?

He has said it. Repeatedly.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Historically, census had it 9.5 million Jews lived in Europe and the Soviet union in 1933.
At the end of the war after an investigation, there was 3.5 million Jewish people left!
Historically, the holocaust genocide period started in early 1942 ( when Jews got transported on special trains from Europe to Polish mainland and the Czech republic..
According to the lore all 6 million ( in the census) were rounded up by the Nazi regime in the 1942, and gassed in chambers or shoot by German soldiers and thrown in pits.
Realistically no race was protected from WW2 and to claim all all six million got killed this way after 1942 make no sense. 
If you look at the weeds of the holocaust, a large portion of Jewish population fled to the Soviet Union when the Nazi war machine invaded Poland in 1939. 

I believe you also claimed that you believed Jews weren't gassed at these camps in the past, is that correct?

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »


According to the lore all 6 million ( in the census) were rounded up by the Nazi regime in the 1942, and gassed in chambers or shoot by German soldiers and thrown in pits.
 

Again, it's not lore, it's historical fact.
And again, you are misrepresenting things.

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

Again. Why are you saying "if"?

Do you not believe he's claimed it now?

He has said it. Repeatedly.

Jesus H Christ. I know he said it. If is a word used in a number of ways.
You know what I mean but you think you can make me look as if I'm denying he said something by highlighting the word if.

Cheerful Spring2

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Historically, census had it 9.5 million Jews lived in Europe and the Soviet union in 1933.
At the end of the war after an investigation, there was 3.5 million Jewish people left!
Historically, the holocaust genocide period started in early 1942 ( when Jews got transported on special trains from Europe to Polish mainland and the Czech republic..
According to the lore all 6 million ( in the census) were rounded up by the Nazi regime in 1942, and gassed in chambers or shoot by German soldiers and thrown in pits.
Realistically no race was protected from WW2 and to claim all six million got killed this way after 1942 make no sense. 
If you look at the weeds of the holocaust, a large portion of Jewish population fled to the Soviet Union, when the Nazi war machine invaded Poland in 1939. 

You failed to answer any question....

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I believe you also claimed that you believed Jews weren't gassed at these camps in the past, is that correct?

Specifically he has said that the gas chambers at Auschwitz were never used as gas chambers and were faked to look like them.

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

But I do substansiate that post. You can see the quotes.


I believed those quotes to be you walking back your position and couching your position.

This could have been corrected by simply answering my question with a direct yes or no.
But that was too much trouble for you it seems.

You are still kind of couching your position with Ifs and indirect statements in my opinion. You are doing so to the point that I believe if I said "you believe cheerful spring is a holocaust denier and his position is unacceptable" you would still say that I'm misrepresenting you....

I've addressed those issues. When he moved his ideas forward by saying 2 million Jews "dissappeared" I then stated I disagreed with him. Its all there to be read. You chose quotes I posted before he made the statement about Jews "dissappearing". I never walked back, I moved forward.

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

Jesus H Christ. I know he said it. If is a word used in a number of ways.
You know what I mean but you think you can make me look as if I'm denying he said something by highlighting the word if.

So then we agree that he is a holocaust denier and that his views are unacceptable?

If that is correct, please post "that is correct."
Otherwise, it will seem like you are dodging.

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

I've addressed those issues. When he moved his ideas forward by saying 2 million Jews "dissappeared" I then stated I disagreed with him. Its all there to be read. You chose quotes I posted before he made the statement about Jews "dissappearing". I never walked back, I moved forward.

Then if that's the case, a good way to clear it up would have been to admit that you were wrong when he exposed himself as a holocaust denier to you.
Or maybe answer questions directly.

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

So then we agree that he is a holocaust denier and that his views are unacceptable?

If that is correct, please post "that is correct."
Otherwise, it will seem like you are dodging.

I'll post whatever you like once you can substantiate what you said about me, with quotes from me after the comments Cheerful spring made about "dissappearing" Jews. Fair enough?