38kWh Ioniq

Silent Running

JPA wrote: »

I'd seriously doubt it's possible at motorway speed without actively managing it. Try it out some day!

I'll be doing my usual UK run next month. That's 520kms east and then, a week later, 520kms west. Nearly all motorway or 70mph A road.

The Ioniq didn't suffer too badly on this run. I know the Niro is a different beast, but signs are good in my first 3000km of ownership.

Silent Running

Silent Running wrote: »

I'll be doing my usual UK run next month. That's 520kms east and then, a week later, 520kms west. Nearly all motorway or 70mph A road.

The Ioniq didn't suffer too badly on this run. I know the Niro is a different beast, but signs are good in my first 3000km of ownership.

You have the PHEV or BEV Niro again ?

Silent Running

Deleted User wrote: »

You have the PHEV or BEV Niro again ?

BEV, the 64kWh. I hope to only charge once each way on that run.

I don't do petrol. :D

Silent Running

Silent Running wrote: »

BEV, the 64kWh. I hope to only charge once each way on that run.

I don't do petrol. :D

Petrol is great when chargers are in use !

unkel

Silent Running wrote: »

BEV, the 64kWh. I hope to only charge once each way on that run.

That should be no problem even in the most brutal conditions in winter. I take it you have destination charging over there?

I presume in Ioniq you could not get away with just 2 charges - to play safe you needed 3?

Silent Running

unkel wrote: »

That should be no problem even in the most brutal conditions in winter. I take it you have destination charging over there?

I presume in Ioniq you could not get away with just 2 charges - to play safe you needed 3?

I don't like to arrive at my daughter's house running on empty. There is a socket to use with the granny charger, but I don't trust it enough to leave it running overnight, and we're normally out and about the next day.

The 3 charges in the Ioniq are due to CCS charger locations. There's a long gap between Cardiff Gate services and Membury services on the M4. The Membury services chargers are very unreliable, and there are very limited alternatives, so it's best to leave Cardiff with 94% to make it to either Chieveley services or, if that's also broken, Reading. Then I like to drop in to South Mimms services on the M25 to top up for the last 50kms to ensure some running around kms for the next day. On the way back, I've done it with 2 charges at Chieveley and Cardiff gate, and a final top-up at a nice little free charge spot near Carmarthen.

The above will all change with the Niro. I'm just not sure how much.

ewj1978

whats the Ionnity situation like on your route?

unkel

ewj1978 wrote: »

whats the Ionnity situation like on your route?

Non-existent.

There are only 3 Ionity chargers in the whole of the UK, one in Scotland, none in Wales or NI and 2 in England, nowhere near his route

Silent Running

ewj1978 wrote: »

whats the Ionnity situation like on your route?

As Unkel says, none anywhere near my route.

I relied heavily on Electric Highway chargers, but they're terrible for reliability. You think Ecars are bad? EH show how bad a charging network could be. Ours is world class in comparison. That's why you won't hear me talking it down.

One unknown for me is that the EH network is old and doesn't seem to like bigger batteries. The charge success rate is low for Niro and Konas. Shell and Instavolt are good backup networks, with Polar finally trying to sort out their PAYG app coming up too.

Ecotricity, with their Electric highway chokehold on the motorway service areas, are very bad. see the doc at...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EZmC7yYSe1ZKxDB1y4fd5CPoKkDY3HBPHYP1Wnt22eU/edit#gid=0

JohnC.

A short report on the official debut, with lots of exterior and interior pics.

https://insideevs.com/news/367904/mid-cycle-restyling-hyundai-ioniq-electric/amp/

KCross

JohnC. wrote: »

A short report on the official debut, with lots of exterior and interior pics.

https://insideevs.com/news/367904/mid-cycle-restyling-hyundai-ioniq-electric/amp/

In that report they say:

"Another welcome change was done to the onboard charger, which is now capable of pushing 7.2 kW instead of the previous 6.6 kW. "

I thought the existing Ioniq already had 7kW charging.... no?

KCross

KCross wrote: »

In that report they say:

"Another welcome change was done to the onboard charger, which is now capable of pushing 7.2 kW instead of the previous 6.6 kW. "

I thought the existing Ioniq already had 7kW charging.... no?

It does.

unkel

That's a brutal article. Full of inaccuracies and irrelevant points. Who cares how long the car takes to slow charge to 80% :rolleyes: And doesn't even mention fast charging speeds compared between old and new model. Looks like that journo knows very little about EVs

Mike9832

JohnC. wrote: »

A short report on the official debut, with lots of exterior and interior pics.

https://insideevs.com/news/367904/mid-cycle-restyling-hyundai-ioniq-electric/amp/

311km WLTP, nice range

Hope it stays around the same price

BigAl81

All articles I see online are an exact copy of the text in that one. Lots of copy and pasting going on.

Was talking to my dealer this week and I asked to trade in my 191 Ioniq for the 38 kW one in January.

He had no idea at all about when it would be out but said he'd know more after their dealer conference in October.

The alleged slower rapid charging would be a pity, but the extra range would make all the difference!

slicedpanman

Was passinh the local Hyundai dealer today and popped in to ask about the new one...

Was told no pricing yet but expect 4k or 5k more on top of the current Ioniq price. Not expecting to have any to deliver till the 201 plates

ELM327

slicedpanman wrote: »

Was passinh the local Hyundai dealer today and popped in to ask about the new one...

Was told no pricing yet but expect 4k or 5k more on top of the current Ioniq price. Not expecting to have any to deliver till the 201 plates

"When it goes on sale in Europe, it will cost €34,900 ($39,500). At least in Germany, where the hybrid is already for sale for €25,800 and the plug-in hybrid costs €32,000."

Mickeroo

4 or 5k more and it suddenly seems like bad value for money tbh. You're getting into Kona/e-Niro/e-Soul territory then but with much less range for the same price.

charlieIRL

Mickeroo wrote: »

4 or 5k more and it suddenly seems like bad value for money tbh. You're getting into Kona/e-Niro/e-Soul territory then but with much less range for the same price.

The Kone / e-Niro etc will also be 4 or 5k more than what they are now as well, all car prices are going up.

Mike9832

Mickeroo wrote: »

4 or 5k more and it suddenly seems like bad value for money tbh. You're getting into Kona/e-Niro/e-Soul territory then but with much less range for the same price.

The EV scene is a joke

Government should **** off with electric car bull**** for another 5 years, cause autogiants are taking the ****ing piss

€35,000 for a bloody Ioniq after €10,000 grant/vrt incentive and petrol hybrid is €25,000

Joke

Unkel got his one almost 3 years ago for €25,000

McGiver

Mike9832 wrote: »

Mickeroo wrote: »

4 or 5k more and it suddenly seems like bad value for money tbh. You're getting into Kona/e-Niro/e-Soul territory then but with much less range for the same price.

The EV scene is a joke

Government should **** off with electric car bull**** for another 5 years, cause autogiants are taking the ****ing piss

€35,000 for a bloody Ioniq after €10,000 grant/vrt incentive and petrol hybrid is €25,000

Joke

Unkel got his one almost 3 years ago for €25,000

Yes and there's only one recipe.

End direct subsidy to car makers.
No VAT and no VRT (no caps).
No motor tax.

That will kick off the market. Otherwise no chance of 960k EVs by 2030. That the government insist on this unrealistic target while not being able to come up with simple effective subsidy (see Norway) is just utterly ridiculous and laughable beyond belief.

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

The EV scene is a joke

Government should **** off with electric car bull**** for another 5 years, cause autogiants are taking the ****ing piss

€35,000 for a bloody Ioniq after €10,000 grant/vrt incentive and petrol hybrid is €25,000

Joke

Unkel got his one almost 3 years ago for €25,000

The EV scene has never been stronger. Sales are higher than ever.....


I would expect the Ioniq to sell well....even if just to a lot of people upgrading from the current model. This will also help the second hand market

Also the price you mention is scrappage if I am not mistaken?

MightyMunster

I didn't pay much more this year (after 4k scrappage).

Mickeroo

Not great:

https://twitter.com/ZeroTailpipe/status/1169690491362914309?s=19

Mike9832

Mickeroo wrote: »

Not great:

https://twitter.com/ZeroTailpipe/status/1169690491362914309?s=19

Pity

Could have been a fantastic EV

Round Cable

Mickeroo wrote: »

Not great:

https://twitter.com/ZeroTailpipe/status/1169690491362914309?s=19

That looks to be as bad as a rapidgating Nissan Leaf. It is disappointing that they haven't improved on the original Ioniq's peak 70kw charge rate, they seem to have gone backwards.

liamog

Surely it must be some kind of mistake, that's exceptionally bad charging.

KCross

Looks like they wanted to bring it in line with the Leaf!

54mins to 80% on a 100kW rapid is no boast considering what the old Ioniq could do.



Seriously though, since the car itself hasnt changed much (aerodynamics etc) it must be down to a change in battery supplier that they cant push this battery as hard as the last one eventhough they've added liquid cooling... strange!

It shows that EV's are not easy to produce.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

Surely it must be some kind of mistake, that's exceptionally bad charging.

Doesnt appear to be. Hyundai's own figure is 54mins to 80% on a 100kW charger. 57mins on a 50kW charger. They've dialed it back big time.

Mickeroo

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the 38kwh Kona have the exact same issue and what they've done is transplant that set up to the Ioniq?

KCross

Mickeroo wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the 38kwh Kona have the exact same issue and what they've done is transplant that set up to the Ioniq?

I think so, yes.

Its how the battery is configured.... lower nominal voltage, therefore decreased DC charge rate...

https://pushevs.com/2019/06/09/pricing-announced-for-new-hyundai-ioniq-electric/

On the other hand, the PEUGEOT e-208 battery has higher nominal voltage since it follows a 108s2p configuration, while the new Hyundai IONIQ Electric has a 88s2p configuration (less cells in series). The higher voltage allows the PEUGEOT e-208 to charge 80 % of the battery in just 30 minutes at a DC fast charger, while the new Hyundai IONIQ Electric requires almost the double (54 minutes).

slave1

Them batteries being packed tighter, wait till we get to the 64 Ioniq

liamog

I was expecting a slight drop in charge speeds due to the lower battery voltage. The pack voltage has dropped 40.6V compared to the Ioniq 28.
This should of seen a reduction in charge power of 5kW but then I expected them to allow 200A charging instead of the 175A limit.

There is one slide that shows 80% charge in 57 mins on a 50kW charger, and 54 mins on a 100kW charger
That can only mean the car barely breaches the 50kW limit.

Something tells me this new model is going to be good for the resale value of Ioniq 28s.

Old diesel

Bjorn has another video up.

He's going to do one specifically on the charging but he touched briefly on the charging .

Over an hour from 10 to 90 percent .

He was saying you might as well go for a 64 kwh or something to that affect and I think in saying that he stumbled on exactly the likely reason for Hyundai/Kia thinking here.....

Which is ......

Normal commuting or less then 250/300 mile useage - then the 38/39 kwh cars can be got as a cheaper option.

For long distance work then you go 64 kwh cars at a premium of 4 to 5 k.

Makes marginally more sense from a manufacturer viewpoint viewed that way .

adunis

I can't think of a single reason to pay more money for the new ironiq,I am thoroughly disappointed.......

Black_Knight

Yeah, pretty damning summary by him. Have to agree though. A slightly better car that takes longer to charge. I'd put faster charging over a few extra toys. The range increase isn't really great ether by the looks of it. He starts off with 96% and 278km. At its supposed price point, stretch a bit more and get a 64kw Kona/niro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh9n5Vq7mjw

Mike9832

Black_Knight wrote: »

Yeah, pretty damning summary by him. Have to agree though. A slightly better car that takes longer to charge. I'd put faster charging over a few extra toys. The range increase isn't really great ether by the looks of it. He starts off with 96% and 278km. At its supposed price point, stretch a bit more and get a 64kw Kona/niro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh9n5Vq7mjw

Range was very impressive I thought

Nearly 200km and he drove hard in wind and rain, nearly all of it @130km/h, sometimes 140

Leaf62 would have done less imo

Just highlights how EVs are crap for highspeed driving, need huge batteries

jusmeig

The new charging video from Bjorn is great news for the resale value of the 28kwh!!

The extra range is completely useless if it takes an age to charge.

Mike9832

jusmeig wrote: »

The new charging video from Bjorn is great news for the resale value of the 28kwh!!

The extra range is completely useless if it takes an age to charge.

Its overblown a bit

Watched that video and it takes in 20kWh in 30 mins

10-60%

Ioniq 28kWh takes in 24kWh in 30 mins

10-94%

https://youtu.be/wb3gJ8fWW5g

4kWh is not a huge difference over 30 min stop

Black_Knight

Mike9832 wrote: »

Its overblown a bit

Watched that video and it takes in 20kWh in 30 mins

10-60%

Ioniq 28kWh takes in 24kWh in 30 mins

10-94%

https://youtu.be/wb3gJ8fWW5g

4kWh is not a huge difference over 30 min stop

Looks like Ionity put 17kw into my car in 18 minutes. Think that even charged a bit beyond the 80% range too. Makes 20kw in 30 minutes seem slow, especially for what should be a progressive step for the car.

4kw isn't a massive difference, but it's a step backwards!
Remember that 10-60% charge should be finishing with a battery with about 24kw in it, and really should be maxing out the charging speeds up to that point (28kw ioniq can max out up to about this level).
The 10%-94% is going to charge much slower from 80% to 94% battery too.

Bjorn even said it, 1000km challenge he expects it to do a lot worse than the 28kw.

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

Its overblown a bit

Watched that video and it takes in 20kWh in 30 mins

10-60%

In 30mins it went from 10-58%. Thats about 18kWh. Its hard to tell exactly as the charge percentage isnt linear but its close enough.

Thats a pretty large gap relative to the 28kWh Ioniq which had taken on ~24kWh and was fully charged at that point(94%) and so had throttled back at the end.

The 38kWh peaked at 47kW on a 350kW charger and throttled back to mid 30's at 50%!!!

This car is no faster on a rapid than a L40.

Mike9832 wrote: »

Ioniq 28kWh takes in 24kWh in 30 mins

10-94%

https://youtu.be/wb3gJ8fWW5g

4kWh is not a huge difference over 30 min stop

Its ~24kWh vs 18kWh. Thats significant if rapid charging is a regular occurrence.

Even if, say, you wanted to do a quick 15min stop and not a full charge.
The 28kWh would take on 15kWh
The 38kWh would take on 9kWh.
Thats a big gap!



Maybe big auto thinks that they can sacrifice charge speed for range. That seems to be what they've done here and also what Nissan did with the L40.

Range is king particularly in this small country.

liamog

The Ioniq 28 added 20kWh in 20 mins, that's about 132 km doing splash and dashes and is the real strength of the Ioniq.
The new model did approx 18kWh in 30 mins. Efficiency is also meant to be a little worse due to the extra weight.

So the improved model adds approx 15km less range, in 50% more time. To me, this is a huge drop in charging utility, which was one of the key selling points of the original Ioniq.

KCross

The real puzzler for me is why is it so bad when it is supposed to have active liquid cooling.

The reduced nominal voltage of the pack explains some of the reduced charge speeds but the throttling is up there with a rapidgate Leaf. It’s actually worse tbh.

With the active liquid cooling I can’t see why they couldn’t have kept the rate at 45kW all the way to 80%. Hitting 35kW at 50% and then down to <20kW shortly after that is terrible for a liquid cooled setup.

It’s a pity his OBDII setup wasn’t working and showing battery temps.

liamog

Having just watched Bjorn's charging video, it's even worse than I thought.
20 mins added around 90km of range (at peak) compared to 130km in 20 on the old one.

BigAl81

Would anyone now assume Hyundai know something about battery degradation that they're not telling us?

It's the only reason I could think of for such slow charging speeds on a new car?

adunis

No
They just go it completely wrong
Range above all else

liamog

When selecting battery chemistries you have to make a choice between cost, energy density, and power density. This time it looks like they've really focused on energy density to increase the range, they've done this at the expense of power density (i.e. the power you can take out or put into the battery).

BigAl81

Tis a tough choice for me, the extra range would mean my regular long trips could be done at 120kmph comfortably year round, rather than nervously at 110kmph with a charge/ stop required for about 3 or 4 months of the year so that would make a huge practical difference.

99.9% of my charging is at home / destination charges, and a splash and dash to get home is usually all of require on a rapid. I'd say there's a lot of people in that boat in a small island like Ireland.

But paying more for a car 3 years newer with worse charging speeds is a hard sell despite all that ;(

God, I sound like a Leaf 40 owner now

liamog

The e-Niro 64 just seems to be a much more compelling product and looks like the price difference isn't going to be too high. Its also a very familiar place to the Ioniq.

slave1

For anyone home charging with minimal public charging this is completely irrelevant.
Ireland remains EV as a second car so the I38 will be fine for plenty of folk and will fly off the forecourts