38kWh Ioniq

KCross

BigAl81 wrote: »

The only thing I can't square away is how the new car is both liquid cooled, and speed limited when charging.

Surely liquid cooling should enable faster charging? It must be a much more densely packed battery to fit it into the car and can't dissipate the heat.

The voltage of the 38kWh pack is much lower than the 28kWh pack hence more amps are required to charge at the same kW and more amps means more heat.

You would think the liquid cooling would be able to counter it, but apparently not and its probably also dictated by the cell manufacturer and so Hyundai are ensuring they stay within the warranty.

Old diesel

BigAl81 wrote: »

Having a long think about "upgrading" my current 191 28kWh Ioniq for the 38kWh.

As a nerdy tech person it would pain me to pay more money for worse charging tech in a car three years newer.

However, it would inconvenience me by about 15 minutes twice a year at most on some very long cross country trips. But it would mean me not needing to stop or worry on a170km trip I do about 40 times a year so makes complete sense.

I'd say there's a lot of people in that boat. In a small country, that extra range could mean not stopping at all so who cares how slow charging it is! (I'd care, but not stopping would be super!)

The only thing I can't square away is how the new car is both liquid cooled, and speed limited when charging.

Surely liquid cooling should enable faster charging? It must be a much more densely packed battery to fit it into the car and can't dissipate the heat. Or Hyundai know something about battery degradation they're not telling us!

I've asked the dealer if he'll swap out my 191 for a 201 under my PCP deal for the craic. It's not the way it usually works but we'll see!

My theory is that looking at Leaf 40 Vs Leaf 62 the 40 Kwh battery size is a challenging size for cooling.

Leaf 62 also rapidgates and is criticised for that.

But anyone that's made direct comparison between L40 and L62 seems to conclude that Leaf 62 manages it's temps in a less crap way then the 40.

So basically it looks to me that 40 Kwh is the hardest to keep cool.

So liquid cooling the 38 isnt giving the impact you should expect.

We can see further evidence in how the 40 Kwh eNV200 is active cooled but still rapidgates - okay eNV200 system is poor. But still some of its poorness might be 40 Kwh size.

60 to 64 kwh has key advantages over the 40 Kwh size.

Less need to charge .

Heat managed over more cells and a bigger battery.

Can handle more discharge and charge .

Kramer

The Hyundai guy - Dublin dealer I assume, at the Ideal Homes Exhibition yesterday said, quite emphatically, the price was €38k :eek:.
I asked him if he was sure & if this was after grant/vrt exemption & he confirmed.

He said it was the same price as the Kona.

That can't be right .

unkel

It would still be a good upgrade for people like BigAl81, who regularly do a 180-200km trip as in winter that would be really pushing it in Ioniq 28 without charging even driven at near Leaf speeds with no cruise and only seat heating etc. It will still do that trip at motorway speeds in winter in Ioniq 38 with cruise / heating etc.

Black_Knight

If you need a boot, the Kona isn't really an option. Pathetic sized boot last I looked.
Seems mad to say a Kia eNiro 64kW would be the same price as the 38ioniq.

yabadabado

When are we likely to know the price?

0lddog

Black_Knight wrote: »

....Seems mad to say a Kia eNiro 64kW would be the same price as the 38ioniq.

Agreed

Chancing their arm - if they dont sell then expect a de facto price reduction with some sort of scrappage scheme.

Black_Knight

0lddog wrote: »

Agreed

Chancing their arm - if they dont sell then expect a de facto price reduction with some sort of scrappage scheme.

Even with 5k scrappage it's just about priced right, if you can forgive the poor charging rates.

PaulRyan97

Price is €35k, just a few hundred cheaper than the PHEV.

adunis

So 6k more for a freshen up and 50km ?
Even if you can overlook the compromised
charging that's a firm no .

Mickeroo

That's madness, just shy of 5k more than what my car cost before scrappage.

Fiery mutant

I know some people aren’t mad about the grills on the Ioniq. I don’t mind the one on my own, but the new one looks rubbish.

You don’t need to make a statement with it, just keep it simple ffs.

Mike9832

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

Price is €35k, just a few hundred cheaper than the PHEV.

Another good value EV lol

EV scene is a ****ing joke

Will be for years while autogiants are dragged kicking and screaming into electrification

Fair play to the clever people that got Ioniq for €25,000 after scrappage and Leaf 30 previously for a steal

New entrants can bring the lube with them to main dealers for the next few years

PaulRyan97

Can't see Hyundai sticking to those prices for long. Then again they've sold about a 1000 Konas at €38k. Not a big deterrent.

Mike9832

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

Can't see Hyundai sticking to those prices for long. Then again they've sold about a 1000 Konas at €38k. Not a big deterrent.

Doesnt bother them

They sell plenty as it is

BigAl81

Just spoke to my dealer, he's saying 37.3k euro after grants!!

Good luck to them!

BigAl81

That's for the top spec version apparently which would be a straight conversion of the pricing listed on the UK website so seems to be right.

Mental that it would only be a grand or two less than a 64 kWh Kona!!

Soarer

62 kW Leaf doesn't seem to be too bad now.

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

62 kW Leaf doesn't seem to be too bad now.

Eh well, yes it does

BigAl81

Couldn't resist, I went over for a sneak peek!

It's definitely more premium inside, leather seats and nicer interior, but very familiar otherwise. Electric memory seats too which I'd love.

The outside is much the same. I like the new grill.

Front:


Rear:


Inside:


Would I buy it at the right price, yes. Would I pay 37.3k for it.... humm?

The last one was 31k on the road. Throw in mabye 2k for the spec bump that's 33k. So about 4.5k then for the larger battery, seems an awful lot for 10 extra kWh's. That would be ~€450 per kWh which seems to be about twice what it should be.

By my maths, the car should be around €35k ish, not €37k.

Kramer

BigAl81 wrote: »

The last one was 31k on the road.

I'd wager most Ioniqs sold at the scrappage price - €26/27k. Certainly the vast majority in 2017 & 2018.
It wasn't too badly specked either.

So, unless they introduce a similar scrappage discount, the new Ioniq is, in effect, €10k or €11k more :eek:.
Approaching €50,000 now before grant/subsidies. Would easily exceed that actually if financing.

KCross

My cynical guess is that they are factoring in the removal of grants in the not too distant future and to also give themselves the marketing opportunity of a scrappage deal when VW unleash their offering in the latter half of 2020.

When grants are removed they can then simply say we've swallowed the loss of the grant and in the meantime offer scrappage deals without any real loss in margin.

kris_2021

BigAl81 wrote: »

Just spoke to my dealer, he's saying 37.3k euro after grants!!

Good luck to them!

Egolf executive edition much nicer option at this price for me.

Old diesel

Michael Barrable STILL has the new model showing on a carzone and done deal at 31,245 euros.

A mistake?????.

Quite likely.

But that 37 k is also very very silly pricing.

You can have 64 kwh Niro or eSoul for that money.

Niro is a very impressive machine in comparison to the 38 for range.

eSoul also well worth a look.

Even if the 38 charged like a 28 that 37 k would still be silly.

ewj1978

Test drove a 64kwh esoul recently. Prices started at ~36k. Why would anyone buy that ioniq?

BigAl81

I was told no scrappage and 6% APR on finance ;(

On the plus side this makes a second hand UK import Model S look like great value

It's not bad at all but not much of an upgrade to be honest, electrically.

And at that price it makes the 44 Kwh BMW i3 look like a bargain !

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

And at that price it makes the 44 Kwh BMW i3 look like a bargain !

+1

The current model €36k i3, the €29k eGolf and the €61k Tesla Model 3 Performance are the only EVs for sale in this country that are good value for money at the moment imho.

krissovo

ewj1978 wrote: »

Test drove a 64kwh esoul recently. Prices started at ~36k. Why would anyone buy that ioniq?

Does it suffer from “Coldgate” like the e-Niro / Kona? Its the new “rapidgate” drama unfolding that could impact ownership.

ewj1978

never heard of that..

Silent Running

krissovo wrote: »

Does it suffer from “Coldgate” like the e-Niro / Kona? Its the new “rapidgate” drama unfolding that could impact ownership.

Dunno about the Kona, but the Niro has battery heating/cooling.

jusmeig

ewj1978 wrote: »

Test drove a 64kwh esoul recently. Prices started at ~36k. Why would anyone buy that ioniq?

Because if you gave me 38k id not drive that bizarre looking electric shopping trolly on wheels. Its absolutely hideous (IMHO)

jusmeig

Hyundai have had no trouble selling electric Ioniqs -> the issue is supply. There is demand, prices will be high.
Pricing vs cars in other segments...not as relevant unless you are cross shopping, and are people just out to buy any electric car?

I agree tho if priced like this vs old Ioniq -> very hard to justify not buying a 1/2 year old 28kwh, You will get where you are going faster!

Black_Knight

jusmeig wrote: »

Hyundai have had no trouble selling electric Ioniqs -> the issue is supply. There is demand, prices will be high.
Pricing vs cars in other segments...not as relevant unless you are cross shopping, and are people just out to buy any electric car?

I agree tho if priced like this vs old Ioniq -> very hard to justify not buying a 1/2 year old 28kwh, You will get where you are going faster!

I think some are.
Some just don't have a clue and want to jump on the bandwagon with the promise of cheap fuel, akin to those buying new diesels in 2008 for the cheaper tax.

Leave them at it, a 2nd hand 38kW ioniq in a few years time might have a more just price. Just wish those who buy it would buy the 64kW eNiro instead so I can buy it off them in a few years.

Villain

Am I reading that right? €37K for a 38kW Ioniq!!!

The mind boggles if that is correct.

ELM327

If ever something came close to the leaf 2.0 in terms of turd polishing it's this Ioniq

BigAl81

Villain wrote:

Am I reading that right? €37K for a 38kW Ioniq!!!

Nope you read it wrong, it's 37.3k ha ha

Though that does include metallic paint and delivery for what that's worth!

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

If ever something came close to the leaf 2.0 in terms of turd polishing it's this Ioniq

You're implying the ioniq 28kW is a turd? And the 38 is just polishing said turd?

adunis

Black_Knight wrote: »

You're implying the ioniq 28kW is a turd? And the 38 is just polishing said turd?

Seems like it,I personally disagree ......strongly
..
The new Ioniq however is a masterclass in how to shoot oneself in the foot........

McGiver

BigAl81 wrote:

Mental that it would only be a grand or two less than a 64 kWh Kona!!

That's a serious bullshít from Hyundai....almost the same price but only 60% of the battery/range. Makes no sense. And if VW cannot get ID3 45kW significantly cheaper, which I think will be no more than 30k after grants, and in good supply, which again I think they will, then Hyundai can go whistle - no supply and overpriced, it won't sell.

Good thing for resale value of the 1st gen Ioniq though.

Villain

BigAl81 wrote: »

Nope you read it wrong, it's 37.3k ha ha

Though that does include metallic paint and delivery for what that's worth!

Haha! Hard to understand the battery size, surely they could have went to 48kW at least.

The pricing is just bizarre though, why would you buy this over a Kona?

Mickeroo

Villain wrote: »

Haha! Hard to understand the battery size, surely they could have went to 48kW at least.

The pricing is just bizarre though, why would you buy this over a Kona?

Bigger car and better spec are all it has going for it over the kona.

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

You're implying the ioniq 28kW is a turd? And the 38 is just polishing said turd?

No, that the Ioniq 28 is like the Leaf 30, a great car of its time but the succesor shi1ts all over it

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

No, that the Ioniq 28 is like the Leaf 30, a great car of its time but the succesor shi1ts all over it

Not sure that's what polishing a turd implies, but your message is right.

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

Not sure that's what polishing a turd implies, but your message is right.

Ok, so it turns out I may have counted my sour grapes before they hatched in terms of analogies but yes the point that they have taken a brilliant before its time EV and trashed it is essentially the case :p

Silent Running

ELM327 wrote: »

Ok, so it turns out I may have counted my sour grapes before they hatched in terms of analogies but yes the point that they have taken a brilliant before its time EV and trashed it is essentially the case :p

It's like a brilliant film, then the sequel is shit

unkel

Silent Running wrote: »

It's like a brilliant film, then the sequel is shit

Only exception to that is The Godfather

Soarer

Terminator 2.

krissovo

Villain wrote: »

Am I reading that right? €37K for a 38kW Ioniq!!!

The mind boggles if that is correct.

I believe like the Leaf that the price is deliberately inflated while there is demand and not much stock. I do not see how the new spec should be priced as it is otherwise.

Surprisingly only BMW have kept a static price for the i3 while increasing the spec of the car while efficiencies are found. 20 > 33 > 44 kWh battery is the big one plus some options like pro navigation are now standard. The now standard options would have cost €4000 a couple of years ago

paulm123

The new ioniq is 34,850 (before dealer charges delievry and Mettalic )on the hyundai website compared to 32600 for the 40kw leaf similer spec leather seats etc
ioniq has 312 range compared to 270 so not much in it,

nicer interior bigger screen,

still prefer Kona though won't be switching.